2009 American Le Mans Series Thread

[kjb]

Peugeot loses Audi again.Great job by McNish

 

[NapoleonMikey]

man and i was really hoping the puegot would win too. but i got to question mcnish's restart after that last yellow i tlooked like he REALLY jumped the gun there.

and im glad the driver of the flying lizard was ok after that nasty collision. it looked like the car exploded on impact.

 

[JohnBM01]

The results were already posted when I thought I had missed seeing the race by a few minutes. So Speed basically tape-delayed the rest of the race. The American economy must be THAT bad. That Laguna Seca race is on NBC at 2:00 PM EDT. So this is the final Speed Channel race for the ALMS.

You saw the race. Name me your winners and losers for this event. Winners and losers meaning who won your respect. Who you were impressed with? Winner and loser time, folks. Let me hear 'em.

 

[GTHamster]

Thanks for that Laguna Seca race info, JohnBM01 and RACECAR

As for the the winners, I have to say McNish did really well. I only saw bits and pieces of the last 20 minutes of the race, but after that yellow flag, he just stood on it. I think that might come under scrutiny, because even I, a LeMans n00b, thought he jumped it way too quick there. I mean, did you see the lead he had on everyone else? That'll be interesting.

 

[BLITZ_69]

I think it was last year that Dindo Cappello held off Dumas, and many said it was some of the best racing of Dindo's carrier. I think what we saw on saturday was some of the best racing for McNish's carrier.

Great 3-peat for Audi sport north america, winning 24 hours of Le Mans, Sebring, and Petite Le Mans all in the same season.

 

[FoolKiller]

THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am extremely happy that I chose to go see this race. That was the most exciting P1 race I have ever seen. The entire crowd was going wild and all of us sitting in the bleachers at the Turn 10 complex stood up and began waving at McNish and cheering when he took the lead and then again during his victory lap.

From my perspective it did not appear that McNish jumped the restart, but even if he did he still added seconds on to his lead after that. At some points McNish would be going under the Suzuki bridge before the Peugeot could even bee seen coming through the trees on the other end of the complex. Jumped restart or not McNish earned that incredible victory.

Pics and vids will be coming later.

 

[V1P3R]

I'm so

tired of hearing about Audi and the vettes. Give me a

break. 1. if the audi's weren't factory backed they'd be just as out of the race as the other p1/2 cars that ate the wall or they'd be a lot farther back than 2 laps behind. Vettes being competitive? please please,

spare me... pleaseeeeee.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

I'm so

tired of hearing about Audi and the vettes. Give me a

break. 1. if the audi's weren't factory backed they'd be just as out of the race as the other p1/2 cars that ate the wall or they'd be a lot farther back than 2 laps behind. Vettes being competitive? please please,

spare me... pleaseeeeee.

why dont you like the vettes? oh well when they goto GT2 next season you will get a chance to tell everyone how the vette team isnt as great as everyone says....until they get there cars dialed in and start winning everything and all the other teams run to GT1.

 

[RACECAR]

I'm so

tired of hearing about Audi and the vettes. Give me a

break. 1. if the audi's weren't factory backed they'd be just as out of the race as the other p1/2 cars that ate the wall or they'd be a lot farther back than 2 laps behind. Vettes being competitive? please please,

spare me... pleaseeeeee.

And how many times have you said this now? We kind of get it, but lets face it: Audi and corvette are simply the best, period. Your gonna hear about them whether you like it or not. Audi has proven three times this year Outright speed doesn't win the big ones and how exactly would you know if they weren't factory backed they wouldn't have done it? You seemed to have forgotten about the R8 when it dominated, even when Complete factory backing ceased. As for the Vettes, Its as simple as this: They are the best in GT1, Period. They haved chased away everyone and now they are going to GT2, but when they start their winning ways(which I guarantee won't be the first year), you're gonna hear about them again. So stop complaining dude, No one's challenging the vettes and apparently Peugeot still hasn't figured out speed isn't what wins you the race and on top of that, made a huge mistake putting in a guy that is no where near experienced as Allen Mcnish when it comes to Sports cars. You might as well stop watching if all your gonna do is complain.

 

[McLaren]

And how many times have you said this now? We kind of get it, but lets face it: Audi and corvette are simply the best, period. Your gonna hear about them whether you like it or not. Audi has proven three times this year Outright speed doesn't win the big ones and how exactly would you know if they weren't factory backed they wouldn't have done it? You seemed to have forgotten about the R8 when it dominated, even when Complete factory backing ceased. As for the Vettes, Its as simple as this: They are the best in GT1, Period. They haved chased away everyone and now they are going to GT2, but when they start their winning ways(which I guarantee won't be the first year), you're gonna hear about them again. So stop complaining dude, No one's challenging the vettes and apparently Peugeot still hasn't figured out speed isn't what wins you the race and on top of that, made a huge mistake putting in a guy that is no where near experienced as Allen Mcnish when it comes to Sports cars. You might as well stop watching if all your gonna do is complain.

I am so sick of hearing the Corvettes are the best. They are not the best, they are just the team with the most money. The other teams haven't been scared away, they've run out of money, or in Aston's case, spending their money on cars for the FIA.

If the Corvettes are the best, why hasn't any other C6R in GT1 not backed by Chevy done just as well? Because that's just it. GM isn't giving them money. Let Maserati or Saleen give funds to teams running their cars and they'd probably do a lot better. Hell, I bet if Ferrari funded anyone but their F1 team, they'd probably turn the Maranello into a Corvette ass-kicking race car.

 

[V1P3R]

You might as well stop watching if all your gonna do is complain.

You gotta point there... If there was a way to get my hands on late 80's, early 90's, or hell even mid 90's racing tapes, I'd be much happier. I'm getting tired of waiting for ALMS to stop sucking.

 

[RACECAR]

I am so sick of hearing the Corvettes are the best. They are not the best, they are just the team with the most money. The other teams haven't been scared away, they've run out of money, or in Aston's case, spending their money on cars for the FIA.

Assuming they even back thier cars. Isn't Maserati funding the Vitaphone team, which has been dominate in FIA GT? Also, while I'm not solely a chevy fan as I still am waiting for Ford to enter GT1(and I hate brand Loyalty), Thats how it looks right now. Of course with them entering GT2, Now that'll be interesting to see.

If the Corvettes are the best, why hasn't any other C6R in GT1 not backed by Chevy done just as well? Because that's just it. GM isn't giving them money. Let Maserati or Saleen give funds to teams running their cars and they'd probably do a lot better. Hell, I bet if Ferrari funded anyone but their F1 team, they'd probably turn the Maranello into a Corvette ass-kicking race car.

They already tryed that with the 575 GTC, but only managed two wins and afterwards, it was abandoned. Besides, Factory backing isn't always how you win all the time. If they are only winning with GM's Money, then how was the Viper, run by Priveteers, still winning long after thier factory support ended in 2001? How was it that Prodrive was able to stomp the competition with their 550s with no Factory support from Ferrari?

 

[McLaren]

Assuming they even back thier cars. Isn't Maserati funding the Vitaphone team, which has been dominate in FIA GT? Also, while I'm not solely a chevy fan as I still am waiting for Ford to enter GT1(and I hate brand Loyalty), Thats how it looks right now. Of course with them entering GT2, Now that'll be interesting to see.

Vitaphone has no funds coming from Maserati. The FIA has been quite clear that no team can be supported by a manufacturer.

They already tryed that with the 575 GTC, but only managed two wins and afterwards, it was abandoned.[

The 575 GTC was a failure from the start. Ferrari hired N-Tech to help build it, and the car was plagued with problems. Had Ferrari not abandoned it, I'm pretty sure it could have been a really well built race car.

Besides, Factory backing isn't always how you win all the time. If they are only winning with GM's Money, then how was the Viper, run by Priveteers, still winning long after thier factory support ended in 2001? How was it that Prodrive was able to stomp the competition with their 550s with no Factory support from Ferrari?

The same way Audi R8s were still winning. The factory, or Oreca in that case, did a good job building the cars with the money from the manufacturers.


As for Prodrive, they did well because they were dominating a competition that says NO factory support. Same with the Vipers. Prodrive & any other Ferrari in GT1 class in ALMS didn't have anywhere near the same success.

 

[RACECAR]

That answer may also explain why non of the Corvettes were supported by GM(those in the FIA GT anyway) so How could GM help them? Pratt & Miller actually did give support to a European Corvette team , which was the Luc Alphand team. They have won this years GT1 championship in the LMES(or is it LMS? I get confused).

 

[McLaren]

The ones in the FIA, though, are not the only dominate machines. It's actually pretty level in terms in competitiveness over there in regards to Carsport having to race against Vitaphone and another Aston Martin team to actually win a race.

 

[FoolKiller]

So stop complaining dude, No one's challenging the vettes and apparently Peugeot still hasn't figured out speed isn't what wins you the race and on top of that, made a huge mistake putting in a guy that is no where near experienced as Allen Mcnish when it comes to Sports cars. You might as well stop watching if all your gonna do is complain.

You have good points here. GT1 was at least interesting when Aston Martin was involved, although the Corvettes, in my opinion, still looked better. I do miss the days of Team Oreca Vipers though. Those are still my favorite GT1 cars.

And this race we had two manufacturer supported teams in P1. Audi and Peugeot. Peugeot put up a good show, but they have shown that their weakness comes in a few areas. As you said, they were focused on speed. That thing would take off without hesitation but they always lost time in the pits. Any team can have a great pit crew.

Then in the end Peugeot lost in their drivers. No one could have beat McNish in those last few laps. When he eased up he was still turning out excellent lap times.

And I am not sure how much of an affect this had, but it may be a sign of Peugeot's problem. When it got dark it became very, very obvious that their brakes were hot. When any other car came into a turn their brakes lit up and then immediately cooled down as they accelerated out of the turns. The Peugeot brakes were glowing almost non-stop. I could see them glowing as they came down the hill, get brighter as they went into the turns, and then continue to glow as they drove off. Once it was dark their brakes were always glowing hot. I don't know if it was how they were being driven or if it was a different brake material, or even just a cooling issue in the design, but those brakes were not cooling down the same as everyone else's.

I just wanted to point that out because I don't know if that could be seen on TV.

I'm getting tired of waiting for ALMS to stop sucking.

We must have been watching a different race.

But you will hopefully be happier if some of the proposed ideas become the rule. I know I have at least heard some talk regarding making certain classes manufacturer based and others privateer.

I think that would help more teams come in where they know that they will be on equal footing. But part of me fears that you will end up with manufacturer classes being limited to only a handful of cars and privateers pulling out sooner when they don't start getting top finishes early on.

----------------------


I do have one curiosity. The Peugeot was a closed-cockpit car and I just wonder if the Audis would be even faster if they were closed-cockpit. Was that ever addressed on TV?

 

[RACECAR]

You have good points here. GT1 was at least interesting when Aston Martin was involved, although the Corvettes, in my opinion, still looked better. I do miss the days of Team Oreca Vipers though. Those are still my favorite GT1 cars.

And this race we had two manufacturer supported teams in P1. Audi and Peugeot. Peugeot put up a good show, but they have shown that their weakness comes in a few areas. As you said, they were focused on speed. That thing would take off without hesitation but they always lost time in the pits. Any team can have a great pit crew.

Then in the end Peugeot lost in their drivers. No one could have beat McNish in those last few laps. When he eased up he was still turning out excellent lap times.

Leigh Diffey pretty much said it best when he said "you don't just step in expecting a team like Audi Sport North America to just roll over". I'm not sure if you saw when Christian Klien was sqeezed off in the grass coming down to china beach, but that was an example of how he is not used to this racing, the track itself, or racing in the night other then Le Mans.

And I am not sure how much of an affect this had, but it may be a sign of Peugeot's problem. When it got dark it became very, very obvious that their brakes were hot. When any other car came into a turn their brakes lit up and then immediately cooled down as they accelerated out of the turns. The Peugeot brakes were glowing almost non-stop. I could see them glowing as they came down the hill, get brighter as they went into the turns, and then continue to glow as they drove off. Once it was dark their brakes were always glowing hot. I don't know if it was how they were being driven or if it was a different brake material, or even just a cooling issue in the design, but those brakes were not cooling down the same as everyone else's.

I just wanted to point that out because I don't know if that could be seen on TV.

So you saw that too. I thought it was just me.

I do have one curiosity. The Peugeot was a closed-cockpit car and I just wonder if the Audis would be even faster if they were closed-cockpit. Was that ever addressed on TV?

They didn't really mention it, but I imagine it could be. Coupes(if done right) always did seem faster then the roadsters. The Toyota GT-ONEs from 99' where running much faster lap times then the BMW V12 LMR and the Bentley Speed 8 from 2003 was making lap times a second or two faster then the R8s.

 

[FoolKiller]

Leigh Diffey pretty much said it best when he said "you don't just step in expecting a team like Audi Sport North America to just roll over". I'm not sure if you saw when Christian Klien was sqeezed off in the grass coming down to china beach, but that was an example of how he is not used to this racing, the track itself, or racing in the night other then Le Mans.

The screen near where I was sitting showed it but it was hard to see what happened. I had my small radio on me tuned to teh race call and they mentioned it and immediately said that it was an issue with him being used to a fully lit Le Mans course while Road Atlanta is mostly dark with only the most dangerous turns lit. The way they kept on about the added stress I thought they were expecting him to go all deer-eyed and fly off into a wall.

He was also kicking up dirt on roughly every other pass through Turn 10 after it got dark because he was missing his turning angle, whereas in the day he was shooting through it like it wasn't even there.

So you saw that too. I thought it was just me.

Here is how obvious it was: Everyone around me was discussing it because we could see it despite the lights on Turn 10. If his brakes had suddenly quit working coming down the hill no one would have been too surprised.

They didn't really mention it, but I imagine it could be. Coupes(if done right) always did seem faster then the roadsters. The Toyota GT-ONEs from 99' where running much faster lap times then the BMW V12 LMR and the Bentley Speed 8 from 2003 was making lap times a second or two faster then the R8s.

And if that is the case, imagine what McNish could have done then. I also would have to wonder if the Peugeot would have led, or competed, as much as it did.

 

[RACECAR]

Here is how obvious it was: Everyone around me was discussing it because we could see it despite the lights on Turn 10. If his brakes had suddenly quit working coming down the hill no one would have been too surprised.

Thats another problem they need to fix right way, or its gonna hurt them. They finally got the car to last the distance for once, but now those brakes(and their pitstops) need some serious help and thier driver line-up needs more experianced sportscar veterans. I'm still wondering why they put in Christian Klein instead of Nicolas Minassian as he has more experiance running this race.

And if that is the case, imagine what McNish could have done then. I also would have to wonder if the Peugeot would have led, or competed, as much as it did.

Seeing as Mcnish was one of the drivers of those very quick Toyotas, I imagine he would of checked out and probably got a bigger gap.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Qualifying is on now.

www.americanlemans.com

 

[JohnBM01]

Because everybody's too good to see the race in tape-delay on NBC, there's the Internet. The world-famous Laguna Seca plays host to this ALMS finale. It will be interesting who the remaining champions will be for this season.

Now just for some off-topic material. I've seen the ALMS since 1999 when I didn't have (then) Speedvision. I've continued watching at least one race from every season of the ALMS even with few cars to a track, even with Audi's dominance, even when Panoz handed Audi their asses a few times, when Risi Competizione and Flying Lizard continue their rivalry... I love sportscar racing and have loved this style of racing since growing into a sportscar racing fan. Hope the series lasts even years from now. And I hope to be alive long enough to enjoy this style of racing with this series.

Hoping for a good race nonetheless!

 

[RACECAR]

And look whos we finally see that wasn't at sebring guys:

Looks like we may get to see how this thing is in comparison to the mighty R10 after all.

 

[JohnBM01]

Here's the headline on americanlemans.com:

"All-Acura Front Row in Monterrey"

Audi's got nothing to lose. It's all about P2 and GT2 (unless you consider a Corvette showdown interesting). Here's my prediction- Acura reclaims their dominance by showing up the Audi R10 TDI's at Laguna Seca. The issue here is, what are the Penske Porsches going to do against the armada of Acura? In GT2, Flying Lizard wrapped up the title. However, I still wonder if Ferrari has anything left in the chamber to take one last shot against the GT2 Porsches. I'm sad Risi Competizione hasn't had a very good 2008. Perhaps a win in GT2 will give Risi the last word until Sebring next year. The Lizard/Risi rivalry will only intensify for '09, as if it hasn't already.

The onboard videos online from the qualifying action must have been recorded very low. I attached a cable from my PC's headphone jack (from the sound card I bought earlier this year) to my stereo. Putting the volume at 8 is optimal. I had to turn things up to about 15 to hear the onboard sounds at a respectable level. One video that's at VERY respectable sound level was one about Gill Campbell (CEO of Laguna Seca) reflecting on ten years of the ALMS.

I have a little question for you to pass the time... what would you say is your favorite rivalry in the ALMS either past or present?

 

[RACECAR]

Here's the headline on americanlemans.com:

"All-Acura Front Row in Monterrey"

Audi's got nothing to lose. It's all about P2 and GT2 (unless you consider a Corvette showdown interesting). Here's my prediction- Acura reclaims their dominance by showing up the Audi R10 TDI's at Laguna Seca. The issue here is, what are the Penske Porsches going to do against the armada of Acura? In GT2, Flying Lizard wrapped up the title. However, I still wonder if Ferrari has anything left in the chamber to take one last shot against the GT2 Porsches. I'm sad Risi Competizione hasn't had a very good 2008. Perhaps a win in GT2 will give Risi the last word until Sebring next year. The Lizard/Risi rivalry will only intensify for '09, as if it hasn't already.

Yeah, its all about manufacterer's title for P2 and GT2. Audi and Corvette are just there.

I have a little question for you to pass the time... what would you say is your favorite rivalry in the ALMS either past or present?

One of my favorite rivalries is the Ferrari vs. Corvette.

 

[RACECAR]

Anyone interested in Buying a Lamborghini? Look no further then here.

 

[JohnBM01]

Not to be picky, but I'd rather a Reiter Engineering Murciélago GT-R.

So this season is over. Emanuele Pirro raced perhaps his final race in the Audi R10 TDI. He's been a dazzling driver. Porsche beat out Acura on the P2 podium by one point. They win the manufacturer's title. What a shock- Corvette wins in GT1! Porsche takes GT2 honors as well.



With the season over, why don't we look back on ALMS 2008? Share your memories of this past season, winners and losers, commentary on this season, etc.

 

[BLITZ_69]

I think the team of Sharp/Brahbam (sorry dude, cant spell your name) stood out to me this year. Before, when i first started watching the series last year, its seemed to me that the Penske Porches didnt have any competition, except for the P1 Audi's. This year though, it seemed the patron highcroft team gave them a run for their money. Maybe just me, but that's how I see it.

 

[FoolKiller]

I watched the tape-delayed coverage on NBC yesterday and I have to say that was a fun race to watch. I never thought I would see that much rubbing and bumping by guys taking risks like that on Laguna Seca. With the gravel surrounding that track I would assume that it is not the place you want to take risky lines in order to make a pass. If you screw it up you are in the back of the pack, and lucky if you aren't a lap down.

 

[BLITZ_69]

I watched the tape-delayed coverage on NBC yesterday and I have to say that was a fun race to watch.

Too bad they didnt show the full 4 hours, only 2.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Too bad they didn't show the full 4 hours, only 2.

And it wasn't a full 2 hours of coverage, since there were commercials and the race was over with about 16 minutes or so to go until the end of the show. CBS trying to squeeze 2 hours and 45 minutes into 2 was bad enough. It wasn't exactly the worst thing, but I think that a proper highlights show would be better.