2009 FIA GT Thread

[Mt. Lynx]

Note that the rear wings have two elements on the new cars, so downforce shouldn´t be affected that much. Currently there is only one element.
Yes, the current crop will be obsolete , all but the Murcielago apparently (My french is a bit rusty, but if I read things right, Reiter is currently developing a GT1 car to the 2010 rules based on the LP 640). My guess is that that car just has to add some ballast for the new weightregs, and a new rear wing. I think the current cars fall short because of their widened bodies, and some new chassisrules. From what I understand, the new rules don´t allow for a wider track on the cars, and not any lowering of the roofline (like in GT3), wich most current cars use. Thing with that is though, that both the Saleen and the MC12 are neither widened nor lowered compared to their roadgoing counterparts, so I´m a bit unsure about this. Most likely it has something to do with how their chassis is restructured .

EDIT: Apparently, under the sculpted, distinct aerodynamic bodies, the cars are developed to GT2 standards. Around 600bhp seems to be the order of the day, and 1200-1250 kg in weight. This means that any (or most) current GT2 cars can be upgraded to GT1 quite simply. There is also the matter of from what the cars are developed; the Ford is apparently an update of the GT3 car, so most likely GT3 cars can be quite simply upgraded aswell. All this means that we can possibly see a very diverse field in 2010. Sadly though, it seems that the new rules will only allow 6 manufacturers, and maximum startingfield of 24 cars. I have no idea why though.

Personally, I like the narrower rear wings. The new Prototypes look very agressive with their smaller rear wings, and I think the same goes for the GT´s. Both these cars look very agressive and very quick . I do however expect them to be slower than the current GT1´s.

Take a guess; am I excited about this or what??

 

[Crashbroke23]

Mt.Lynx, GT1 WILL survive!

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Haha, fixed!

Additional info on the new cars: As opposed to GT2 and GT3 whom uses steelbrakes, the new GT1 cars utilize carbon brakes and pads.

I also checked some speeds around Paul Ricard, and a C6.R did a 2.02 lap, whereas the Nissan GTR did a 2.05. One of the GT2 Porsches did a 2.08 lap.

I can also reveal the proposed new 2010 raceformat: There will be two sessions - a qually of one hour with points not fully distributed, and a one hour sprintrace with full points. The exception will be Spa 24hrs, wich will be just that; 24 hours! The race at Spa will also see GT1 and GT2 together for the only time of the year.

So far there seems to be 12 races scheduled for 2010, but all tracks are not specified. San Luis (Argentina), Spa (Belgium), Bucharest (Romania), Algarve (Portugal), Domodedovo (Russia) and most likely Silverstone (England). Other than that, Australia (please be Bathurst!), South Africa (Kyalami?), Italy (Monza or Adria?), Germany (Oschersleben?), Bulgaria and the United Arab Emirates (Dubai or the under construction track?) are listed.

6 manufacturers. 3 are done. Wich additional 3 would you like to see?

 

[Crashbroke23]

6 manufacturers. 3 are done. Wich additional 3 would you like to see?

Pagani (Or Koneigsegg), Corvette, and Aston (Or Ferrari Instead).

Speaking of Pagani, what ever happened to the Rock Media Motors Pagani that was at the '08 tests? And where did you get the times for the test sessions?

 

[Leonidae]

moar GT1 GTR Goodness..

*click* and *click*

 

[Crashbroke23]

Love it, lets see some for the Ford GT-GT1!

 

[Leonidae]

sound of WIN

 

[RACECAR]

SO basically, GT1 will survive, but as another GT2. Whats the point of having it if basically they are gonna be the same thing? I guess my question is what exactly is the goal here?

 

[Crashbroke23]

SO basically, GT1 will survive, but as another GT2. Whats the point of having it if basically they are gonna be the same thing? I guess my question is what exactly is the goal here?

The GTR-LM was a few seconds faster than the GT2 rides. The goal is to keep the pinnacle of GT Racing alive.

But after thinking for a while, i think the GT2 european championship will be a major sucess in 2010. Since Le Mans Series GT2 teams and current Fia GT GT2 teams could converge on the same series.

11 (fia GT) + 13 (Le Mans Series) = 24. I.E. the maximum for the GT1 world championshop.👍

 

[FLASH48]

I'm a Ford man, but you got to like the looks of the GTR and the sound isn't have bad either!!
Just wish i could watch some of the FIA Racing, my cable here in Alaska does not show any European racing!(which sucks)

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Pagani (Or Koneigsegg), Corvette, and Aston (Or Ferrari Instead).

Speaking of Pagani, what ever happened to the Rock Media Motors Pagani that was at the '08 tests? And where did you get the times for the test sessions?

Rock Media motors Zonda was not competitive at all, but maybe they can adapt it to the new rules?
Koenigsegg did build a prototype for GT1 a couple of years ago, but it wasn´t good enough and was discontinued.
Corvette is a good guess IMO, the new P&M GT2 cars have great potential for a further development.
Aston Martin (or actually Prodrive) have already said that they wont build a new GT1 car.Maybe someone else will give the V12 Vantage a shot? There are however rumours about a 612 Scaglietti GT1, but I don´t know...
Myself, I´d say Mercedes! Their upcoming SLS has great potential for this type of racing. Other than that, Audi R8, The upcoming Ferrari F450 or maybe the Maserati GranTurismo or the Jaguar XKR could work.
Stephane Ratel (SRO) said that there will probably be 5 makes in 2010, and one more in 2011 onwards, so my bet is Corvette and Mercedes for 2010, and Maserati or Jaguar for 2011.

Times found here and here.

The pressconferance:

The 2009 season of the FIA GT Championship got underway with the official media launch, which took place at the Paul Ricard HTTT circuit, within two days of official testing. Cars from the FIA GT Championship, the FIA GT3 European Championship and the GT4 European Cup were entered for the test days, with a total of 49 cars expected to take part over the two days. A press conference was followed by the unveiling of the first two cars built according to the 2010 GT1 technical regulations : the Nissan GT-R and the Ford GT1.

During the launch press conference, Stephane Ratel, CEO of SRO Motorsports Group, promoter of both the FIA GT Championship and the FIA GT3 European Championship, outlined the changes for the 2009 season. Despite the difficult economic times, an FIA GT calendar reduced to eight events, the removal of development tyres, along with a generous team assistance package, have helped to assure full-season grids of 42 cars – with 12 brands represented – for the FIA GT3 European Championship, as well as an entry list of 25 cars for the FIA GT Championship, including full-season entrants and race-by-race competitors.

Ratel then continued with a comprehensive update on the GT1 World project. The plans made over recent years reached a new level today, not only with the unveiling of the first two cars built according to the 2010 GT1 technical regulations, and with the announcement of a third, but with a full presentation of the planned Championship and the status with the FIA.

The 2010 GT1 World project aims to set up a World Championship title for independent teams, based on the FIA balance of Performance system which has proved so successful in keeping close competition and balanced costs in the GT1 and GT3 categories. A truly global programme aims at 12 events in 12 countries, on five continents. Letters of intent have been received from circuits in Argentina, Australia, Great Britain, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Romania, Russia, Bulgaria, South Africa and the United Arab Emirates. The single GT1 class would consist of six brands, a maximum of 24 cars, two cars per team and two teams per brand. Only full-season entries would be eligible, as is currently the case in GT3. The teams would receive substantial support for the long-distance events. With a general format of two one-hour races per event, a qualifying race and a Championship race, there would be one winner per weekend. However, the continuation of the 24-hour race at Spa would maintain the endurance nature of the cars.

As for the cars, the 2010 technical regulations have been drafted in collaboration with the ACO and approved by the FIA World Motor Sport Council in December, to be applied in the FIA Championships and in the ACO series. The 2010 GT1 cars can be developed by the manufacturers or independent tuners. A compromise between the cost-effective approach successfully developed with GT3, the detailed technical regulations of GT2 and the need to have distinctive cars, 2010 GT1 cars can be specifically built, an evolution of existing GT3 cars or a 2010 GT2 car with a performance kit.

Gabriele Cadringer, representing the FIA, confirmed the situation : “The FIA does not give World titles easily. There have been months of discussions with Stephane, but the contract with the FIA is now ready, and all the conditions have been laid down to move to this new stage. The conditions which need to be fulfilled include ten races on three continents minimum, which looks like being the case, four different brands represented, which I don’t think will be a problem, and 18 cars at least on the grid, which is up to Stephane. We think that Stephane has all the chances to get this. We will monitor him, and give him help on the technical and sporting side. And we would like to wish him good luck; we look forward to good races in the future.”

At the end of the press conference, Mr Sanada, the president of NISMO, and Henry Barczynski of Gigawave Motorsport, NISMO’s partner team, unveiled the Nissan GT-R, while Martin Bartek of Matech Concepts unveiled the Ford GT1.

“It is a wonderful experience to work with Nissan. It’s going to be a tremendous year and I know we will learn a lot from them, and next year, we are aiming to win the Championship !” explained Henry Barczynski.

Martin Bartek commented : “When I met Stephane about the GT1 project in late 2007, the goal we set and agreed at that time was to build a spectacular GT1 car but with the running budget of a GT3 equivalent car. This is what I think we have managed to achieve in one-year’s development time. We have built two cars, one which will be entered by ourselves, and the second which will be entered by MarcVDS Racing.”

Afterwards, Hans Reiter confirmed that he would also be building a new generation GT1 car : “As some of you may know, Lamborghini has recently released a new version of the Murciélago, SV version, 670 hp, 6.7 litre, and this will be our car for the GT1 World Championship. Unfortunately, the car is not ready yet as the car was only launched in March, but should be ready for the second part of the season,” he explained.

 

[seanyb505]

Ford GT1:

Would be nice to see a 599 (Remember the 599xx?), Aston, Viper, Saleen, but I seriously doubt any of them. It doesnt seem that any manufacturers are willing to step up right now. The Ford and the Lambo werent even made by Ford or Lambo. Perhaps Corvette will be along for the ride, its a good proven platform.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Would be nice to see a 599 (Remember the 599xx?), Aston, Viper, Saleen, but I seriously doubt any of them. It doesnt seem that any manufacturers are willing to step up right now. The Ford and the Lambo werent even made by Ford or Lambo. Perhaps Corvette will be along for the ride, its a good proven platform.

Thimg is, the GT1 world championship will be privateers only, so no factory teams! Matech does have support from Ford though, and NISMO is to Nissan what AMG is to Mercedes.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Maserati/2009/GranTurismo_MC/

Looks good, still prefer the Trofeo though.

 

[Clark]

I wouldn't expect the GT-R and the Ford to be quick. I was just reading an article written by Darren Turner and he mentioned the cars for 2010 have less downforce and are heavier.

Autosport article:
'I'm writing this from the FIA GT Championship test at Paul Ricard, where Michael Krumm and I are putting more miles on the new Nissan GT-R.

It's built for the 2010 GT regulations, so it has less downforce and is slightly heavier than the GT1 cars I've been used to...'

 

[Leonidae]

so, 600hp, ridiculous amount of torque, 13" wide wheels etc make it slower? Is this just your own guess or based on some article where even I could pretend to be an automovite journalist?

 

[Clark]

It's written by Darren Turner, who drove the DBR9 last year and won at Le Mans, drives the current 009 Aston Martin LMP1 and will be driving the GT-R for Gigawave.

The current cars have ~ 600bhp anyway so there's no speed lost/gained over the 2010 cars.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

so, 600hp, ridiculous amount of torque, 13" wide wheels etc make it slower? Is this just your own guess or based on some article where even I could pretend to be an automovite journalist?

It´s not his own guess. The new cars are around 3-4 secs slower around Paul Ricard than the current cars. GT2 cars another 2-3s.
Go to Media and Test Days Paul Ricard HTTT and Second time accumulated times: http://www.fiagt.com/downloads.php

 

[Clark]

So, Mt. Lynx, GT1 is going to survive. But at what cost? Is it going to be better or worse?

I'm a big GT/Sportscar fan but you seem like the biggest GT1 fan so I'd interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[Clark]

Here's some good news. Anothony Davidson is one of the candidates to drive alongside Turner and Krumm at Spa 24 Hours this year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74364

And conformation of the of Reiter building a Murcielago SV based GT1 car for 2010.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74362

 

[Mt. Lynx]

So, Mt. Lynx, GT1 is going to survive. But at what cost? Is it going to be better or worse?

I'm a big GT/Sportscar fan but you seem like the biggest GT1 fan so I'd interested to hear your thoughts.

Hmmm, where to begin?
We´ll go through finances first; the cost of these new cars are significantly lower than the current crop - about half in purchase price. SRO will also pay flighttickets for teams, and the shipping of the cars, so runningcosts are much lowered that way - at least for the teams. The new racingformat will also make it much easier to land tv-time around the world, and thus make money to support the costs of the transportations. All good in my eyes, allthough I do have a small gripe with the racingformat. I am a big fan of enduranceracing, but I guess Spa 24hrs will do =)

As for the racing itself, it´s already a proven formula. The cars will recieve the same performancebalancing as in GT3, and the racing there is absolutely top notch.
Ratel has appearently been working on this for 5 years, and in conjunction with the FIA - whom has given the thumbs up on this world championship - and the ACO, I think this has great potential to attract teams to build and race new cars, both in the WC and in the Le Mans series as well as Le Mans 24hrs itself.

I´ve been following a few discussions about this at another forum, and it seems many like GT2 better, but it also seems as those who do are americans. ALMS has great diversity in GT2, whereas LMS has less so, and FIA GT is a strict Porsche/Ferrari showdown, so I don´t think GT2 is in such great shape as it seems. IMO the difference of the cars are too big in GT2. Things like the Viper, Ford GT or Panoz - and later Corvette - are true firebreathers, and should belong in GT1. GT2 should IMO be for smaller displacement cars, such as the 911, F430, Spyker and now M3. Entrylevel sportscars plain and simple.

I truly believe that there should be a place for the supercars and firebreathers to compete aswell, and that GT1 is that place.

To sum things up, I think GT1 will become better and better!

 

[Clark]

You should change your Title- 'Is pretty sure GT1 will survive'

 

[JAGUAR1977]

A GT1 World Championship................. I guess it's possible if you believe in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. The worlds best GT cars will be the factory backed GT2's in ACO series, this FIA GT1 class will be little more than glorified GT3.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

A GT1 World Championship................. I guess it's possible if you believe in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. The worlds best GT cars will be the factory backed GT2's in ACO series, this FIA GT1 class will be little more than glorified GT3.

And so will GT2! They´re in for an overhaul for next year aswell. And GT1 will also be ACO eligiable FYI. Come to think of it, ACO may allow full factory teams in GT1, and thus making the ALMS/LMS/Asian LMS places for more makes than allowed in the WC. The WC has already been given the get-go by the FIA, whom don´t hand out world championship statuses easily, so that´s already done. I guess Santa and the toothfairy does exist then! And as for factory backing, they get that in GT1 aswell.
I´ll list things that separate GT2 from the new GT1;
GT1 has carbon brakes and pads.
GT1 has more downforce and a more distinct aerodynamic look. They simply look cooler.
GT1 has around 150 more bhp than GT2, and thus more torque.
And that´s about it.

How come this is loathed upon? It will make for great racing I´m sure!

 

[JAGUAR1977]

FIA GT has been lagging behind the competition for some time, LMS, ALMS, International GT and even the new Asian LM series will all rank higher. Giving the series World Championship status is nothing but a political move to help SRO.

GT2 will stay as is with some cost reductions, that's why BMW and Corvette have committed to new cars with full factory backing.

GT1 will consist of specialist builders like Matech and Reiter, alongside parts bin specials like the GTR.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

FIA GT has been lagging behind the competition for some time, LMS, ALMS, International GT and even the new Asian LM series will all rank higher. Giving the series World Championship status is nothing but a political move to help SRO.

I honestly believe you´re wrong here. Sure, it will help the SRO, but Ratel has done all this with the blessing of both the FIA and the ACO.
And FIA GT has not been lagging behind in GT1, that´s been the questionable honors of the different Le Mans series. Take this year as an example. In ALMS, Corvette will only do a select few races, so GT1 is basically dead there, and has been for the last few years. Only four entrants LMS aswell, wich has been the order of the day for a couple of seasons. In FIA GT there are currently 13 entrants in GT1, wich by no means are bad numbers.

There are more entrants in GT2 in all of these series, but they mostly consists of Ferraris or Porches, and frankly that battle is getting really old by know. It is fun though to see BMW step up, and it will be intersting to watch Corvette do to GT2 what they´ve done to GT1 in the ALMS, IE destroy it by being allpowerful.

Only in ALMS is GT1 totally dead, but ALMS seems to be that way in other ways aswell. This year they do have a few P1 entries, but yesteryear it´s been a sad story. TBH, the only class in ALMS that really is alive, is GT2. Methinks the new GT1 cars will contribute to popularity of the series more, especially when all the classes get overhauled, and GT1 cars will most likely be on par with P2 in terms of laptimes.

GT2 will stay as is with some cost reductions, that's why BMW and Corvette have committed to new cars with full factory backing.

And the BMW will most likely not ever be seen at Le Mans, since it´s not fully ACO homologated. Not yet anyway. the Corvettes will also have to be sold as customercars, and a fair bet is that someone will make the upgrade to GT1 with that.

GT1 will consist of specialist builders like Matech and Reiter, alongside parts bin specials like the GTR.

And Matech has support from Ford, Reiter has Lambos blessings and Gigawave has full support from NISMO. Just like Prospeed has backing from Porsche, RLR has support from BMW and Risi has backing from Ferrari. I fail to see the difference.

Oh, and long time, no see. It´s been a while since I saw you on these forums!

 

[JAGUAR1977]

In FIA GT you've had the same half dozen plus cars passed around different teams, only Vitaphone Maserati has been a constant. There's been little development or factory interest.

FIA GT has struggled to establish itself with DTM, WTCC and the increasingly powerful International GT competing on the sprint side and LMS/ALMS for endurance.

I don't see how Matech, Reiter and other engineering houses are going to fund GT1 race programs (building cars is the easy part) without major manufacturer support or sponsorship, as we've seen with the stop start Murcielago program. Manufactuers either fund LMP's that can win Le Mans overall or GT's that are closely related to roadcars.

The reason GT1's from the mid 1990's were heavily backed is because they could win Le Mans overall.

Incidently the BMW now has full GT2 homologation.

Good to post here again.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

In FIA GT you've had the same half dozen plus cars passed around different teams, only Vitaphone Maserati has been a constant. There's been little development or factory interest.

FIA GT has struggled to establish itself with DTM, WTCC and the increasingly powerful International GT competing on the sprint side and LMS/ALMS for endurance.

I don't see how Matech, Reiter and other engineering houses are going to fund GT1 race programs (building cars is the easy part) without major manufacturer support or sponsorship, as we've seen with the stop start Murcielago program. Manufactuers either fund LMP's that can win Le Mans overall or GT's that are closely related to roadcars.

The reason GT1's from the mid 1990's were heavily backed is because they could win Le Mans overall.

Incidently the BMW now has full GT2 homologation.

Good to post here again.

I agree about the first part, FIA GT has struggled compared to most other international series, no doubt about that. I do however think that will change now, positive as I am

The funding of the WC is one of the good parts; airlinetickets and transports of the cars are being paid by SRO, hence the maximum of 24 cars. So with a little clever financials, a Team doesn´t have to spend that much to actually race in the WC. The teams who will race in the different Le Mans seris will have to pay substially more, wich will most likely lead to just about only factoryteams there.
The cars are still alot cheaper to build and race than the current breed, so I do believe there will be some factory interest.

And funding LMP´s who can win outright or GT´s that are close to the roadcars? The new GT1 will be as close to the road as GT2, since they will use the same rules. The only differences will be power and aero. When 2011 comes, and the new P-rules start taking effect, GT1 will have the potential of at least podiums at Le Mans.

So they did fully homologate the Beemer? The way I understood it, BMW somehow "pursuaded" the ACO to be able to use that transaxle.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

Most GT's have waiver's on certain parts as the configerations are so different, they aren't like WRC's or WTCC's which are all similar specced in road car form.

Incidentally I understand SRO's plans for funding a World Championship, I just don't know were the money, teams and the like are coming from seeing as there hasn't been the finances to fund all those DBR9's, Salleens etc that have already been built, and that's for a European series.

 

[Crashbroke23]

While we are talking about the new GT1, lets talk about some old GT1, and GT2 cars that are for sale!

The For Sale List!

There are;
1 - DBR9
2 - Ferrari F430 GT2 (1 is a Peterson/White Lightening)
1 - Gillet Vertigo
1 - Maserati Trofeo
3 - Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (1 is a ex-Hitsoyama)
2 - Porsche 911 GT3 Cup S
3 - Saleen S7-R (1 is a ex-Acemco)

These are all good cars (except for the Maser and the Gillet).