2010 Formula 1 British Grand Prix

[Radracing]

Technically yes, but you cannot in mere split seconds decide one driver has the line like that. Remember that if Alonso did get ahead for a brief moment, it was just that a brief moment. Not nearly enough time to make his intentions clear for the corner and make a move on Kubica. He had to continue his outside line and give Kubica the room because Kubica was already on a trajectory on the inside.
If Alonso had moved on Kubica and tried to take the line for the 2nd part of the chicane he would have been the party at fault, not Kubica. This is because Kubica had already committed to the inside line and was already carrying the speed which would cause him to go the best line around the chicane. It was Alonso's choice to keep on the outside when the door was inevitably shut.
Also, while Alonso may have been ahead into the 1st part of the chicane, he was out of position for the 2nd part. This is what gives Kubica the right to go where he likes.

If Alonso was the lead car for that brief moment his only obligation was to make sure that they avoid contact by not making any sudden blocking moves or contact. So wasn't that what he was doing as a lead driver? He avoided contact and went off track as a lead car not a passing car so technically there was no more advantage to take if he was the lead car already.

A pass is complete when one driver has fully passed his entire car in front of the other. As long as the other driver is alongside, the pass isn't complete and its both driver's responsibility to ensure there isn't contact.It alters from situation to situation, the responsibility switches depending on the corner(s), speeds, etc.

Kubica, as the driver in front initially and with the inside line, is the one who controls the corner and effecitvely makes Alonso the one to choose the line afterwards. As long as there is no "chopping", i.e. no sudden moves that Alonso can't react to, Kubica is well within his right to pressure Alonso into slowing down or otherwise going off the circuit.

I wish someone would write a book which covers every corner possible to fully explain this to everyone, its hard to really describe what is fair and what is not as the circumstances always change it.

So from your quote, after the first corner Kubica as a passing car trying to regain the position should not chop the car he is passing which he did at the second corner. The resposibility was passed on to Kubica to make sure he does not cut off the lead car or make contact from your other comment that the resposibility switches from corner to corner or depending on the corner. That was why I brought up the Zanardi pass were technically he went off course but it clearly showed that he went past already so it was not considered an advantage.

 

[Stevisiov]

Uhuh...but Alonso didn't even "partially" overtake him, since he was cut off.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with that, the point I was making to Radracing (which I know I haven't explained particularly well), was that Alonso hadn't fully overtaken Kubica fully during the first corner, if he, Kubica wouldn't have been able to push him wide....So, at the point Alonso left the track, he had not fully overtaken Kubica, yet at the point he rejoined the track, he was fully ahead of Kubica, thus he only successfully completed his overtake whilst off-track therefore gaining an advantage going off track.

 

[niky]

Alonso's move on the outside of the previous corner put him out of position for the next corner, which gave Kubica the edge. This is similar to Button's move on Hamilton in Turkey... where he got the position in one corner, but his line left him vulnerable to an attack from Lewis by the next one. It's all fair. It's all racing.

If Alonso was ahead of Kubica by the second corner, he wouldn't have had to go wide. Kubica was able to push him wide because Kubica's nose was ahead at the apex of the second corner.

This is all that matters in deciding who did what.

Kubica gave Alonso a choice:

#1. Slow down and slot in behind me.
#2. Run your front wing into my sidepod and end both our races.

Alonso picked #3. Cut off track. Cry foul about being elbowed in the ribs. And spend the next several laps ignoring race control.

What's that? Ferrari deciding the rules apply the others and not to them? Surely not?

Indeed. If you feel the ruling is unfair... appeal it after the race. Don't ignore the ruling until you've gotten a penalty!

I can't believe Domencali's bald-faced lie about the whole penalty thing... but then, it's nowhere near as bad as similar things that have happened at Renault and McLaren.

Not that it's going to help them much to be seen by the fans in this light.

 

[Ardius]

If Alonso was the lead car for that brief moment his only obligation was to make sure that they avoid contact by not making any sudden blocking moves or contact. So wasn't that what he was doing as a lead driver? He avoided contact and went off track as a lead car not a passing car so technically there was no more advantage to take if he was the lead car already.

So from your quote, after the first corner Kubica as a passing car trying to regain the position should not chop the car he is passing which he did at the second corner. The resposibility was passed on to Kubica to make sure he does not cut off the lead car or make contact from your other comment that the resposibility switches from corner to corner or depending on the corner. That was why I brought up the Zanardi pass were technically he went off course but it clearly showed that he went past already so it was not considered an advantage.

The point is though that Alonso didn't fully pass Kubica and that an overtake going into a braking zone is not considered complete with regards to who has the line if said driver is on the outside.
It is not black and white "if the car is past completely then the overtake is finished" because like I've said repeatedly now it depends on the situation.

As Niky said, the principle reason Kubica still had the line was where he was with relation to this particular corner section.

 

[Famine]

And Whiting told Ferrari three times to tell Alonso to cede the position before the stewards got involved.

 

[Ardius]

^Indeed, that settles the issue of stewarding . More Ferrari wah-wah.

 

[The Outlaw]

Wow It's hard to believe how stupid Ferrari management is at times

 

[gtracedriver]

Ferrari team as a whole had a nightmare right from the first lap. Alonso bad start and then contact with Felipe and he got puncture. Felipe also spun and found himself in pit-lane entry so he went for pits-stop.

Alonso got penalty for Kubica. He deserved that, he was far to aggressive but then against Luizzi also he was trying too hard. I thought in anger he was going to climb over him. But he had some contact too and got puncture. With fresh tyres he did set the fastest lap but 14 and 15 was pretty bad to say the least I think Mclaren and RBR will stay ahead of Ferrari. Alonso championship is still alive though if he can get good results.

 

[Roo]

And Whiting told Ferrari three times to tell Alonso to cede the position before the stewards got involved.

Welcome to 2 days ago

 

[Famine]

Aye, but it needed bringing up again. And less subtlely.

 

[Feschka]

Ferrari's version:

13:31:05 The overtaking move takes place at Club and after one second Rivola (Ferrari's team manager) calls Whiting, who replies after 11 seconds. Rivola asks: "Have you seen the pass? In our opinion there was no room to overtake."

26 seconds after the pass, Whiting asks to be given time to watch the TV footage.

13:33 Ferrari makes a second radio call – 1m55sec after the pass. Alonso has completed another lap plus one sector, and is behind Nico Rosberg and Jaime Alguersuari, while Kubica drops farther back.

Whiting tells Ferrari that the stewards think Alonso could give the position back. Rivola asks: "Is this the decision?"

Whiting replies: "No, but that's how we see it."

Rivola informs the team while Rosberg passes Alguersuari. On the GPS screen that shows the position of the cars, Ferrari sees Kubica dropping farther back. Meanwhile, Alonso overtakes Alguersuari at Turn 2.

13:33:22 Ferrari makes a third radio call.

Rivola tells Whiting: "Alonso doesn't have only Kubica behind. He would have to concede two positions now."

While they discuss the matter, Kubica is passed by Barrichello, so Alonso would have to now give up three positions.

Whiting replies: "We have given you the chance to do it or not. Things being this way, the stewards will hear the drivers at the end of the race, but I understand your position."

13:35:30 Kubica stops so Alonso can no longer give the position back.

13:45:31 The stewards investigate the Alonso/Kubica incident. The monitors then display "car No. 8 under investigation," 14m26sec after the pass.

13:46:26 Just 55 seconds later the stewards decide that Alonso should have a drive-through penalty.



In my opinion Alonso should have let Kubica pass back anyway.

I just hope next time they don't contact Whiting though, the guy looks as reliable as 🤬.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

When the "investigation message" popped up, did it say it was being investigated or that it will be after the race?

When I was watching I thought it said something about after the race. Then I saw the penalty several seconds later. But I was probably seeing things.

 

[Alex.]

So after we'd seen all the drivers, we were walking past the new straight when I noticed the gate was open....

Entrance to the straight from reverse

Normal

New pit exit, the pitlane will be below ground and the pit exit corner will be an off-camber right followed by a bank onto the track

Now to Abbey corner, the mysterious 'bump' they talked of. I ran my hand across it, and it was flat as a pancake. Guess it's different sitting 1cm off the floor at 180MPH.

Couldn't resist, I can say I was one of the first EVER people to stand on the Silverstone new pitwall

Call me a trespasser or whatever, I had to do it very quick whilst the builder wasn't looking.
The abandoned Bridge corner

Walking through the village:

Finally, a friend with an eye for photography was there and didn't even tell us! I only knew this photo was taken when I was tagged on facebook. It was waiting for the drivers to come out.

I'm on the left, Only In F1 on the right.

 

[waggles]

Ferrari's version:

13:31:05 The overtaking move takes place at Club and after one second Rivola (Ferrari's team manager) calls Whiting, who replies after 11 seconds. Rivola asks: "Have you seen the pass? In our opinion there was no room to overtake."

26 seconds after the pass, Whiting asks to be given time to watch the TV footage.

13:33 Ferrari makes a second radio call – 1m55sec after the pass. Alonso has completed another lap plus one sector, and is behind Nico Rosberg and Jaime Alguersuari, while Kubica drops farther back.

Whiting tells Ferrari that the stewards think Alonso could give the position back. Rivola asks: "Is this the decision?"

Whiting replies: "No, but that's how we see it."

Rivola informs the team while Rosberg passes Alguersuari. On the GPS screen that shows the position of the cars, Ferrari sees Kubica dropping farther back. Meanwhile, Alonso overtakes Alguersuari at Turn 2.

13:33:22 Ferrari makes a third radio call.

Rivola tells Whiting: "Alonso doesn't have only Kubica behind. He would have to concede two positions now."

While they discuss the matter, Kubica is passed by Barrichello, so Alonso would have to now give up three positions.

Whiting replies: "We have given you the chance to do it or not. Things being this way, the stewards will hear the drivers at the end of the race, but I understand your position."

13:35:30 Kubica stops so Alonso can no longer give the position back.

13:45:31 The stewards investigate the Alonso/Kubica incident. The monitors then display "car No. 8 under investigation," 14m26sec after the pass.

13:46:26 Just 55 seconds later the stewards decide that Alonso should have a drive-through penalty.



In my opinion Alonso should have let Kubica pass back anyway.

I just hope next time they don't contact Whiting though, the guy looks as reliable as 🤬.

It's what happened to Webber at Singapore. He passed Alonso () while off track, and Glock ninja'd him at the next turn.

 

[Famine]

Remember when Ferrari cheated and tested their new blown diffuser despite the in-season testing ban? "Loophole" snipped.

 

[Prince.M5]

When the "investigation message" popped up, did it say it was being investigated or that it will be after the race?

Nah mate... It says ''The incident involving car number 8 and 11 is being investigated by the stewards''. The message pop-up came up a bit late and Alonso is already passing Liuzzi and one of the Sauber also Kubica had retired from the race. Several laps later, it says ''Drive though penalty for car number 8 - illegal overtaking manoeuvre'' or such.

He made the mistake, and he paid the price for it... Fair and square but a bit harsh.

Remember when Ferrari cheated and tested their new blown diffuser despite the in-season testing ban? "Loophole" snipped.

They are smart... But ended up being silly. But I have a second thought of it... This in-season testing banned is silly and is a hard times for the teams. At least, make a mid-season testing session for all teams let's say at Paul Ricard like in 2008 I think. Not hard after all... Or do they have a fuel/tyres limit per-season??

EDIT: Thanks mod!

 

[Alex.]

Don't just pin it on Ferrari. Other teams have done it this season and in the past. Namely Mclaren.

 

[yeti]

Don't just pin it on Ferrari. Other teams have done it this season and in the past. Namely Mclaren.

Pretty sure it was Ferrari and Mercedes that have done this...

Also - Red Bull did some driving round London - but don't know if this had any new bits on.

C.