2010 Formula One Spanish Grand Prix

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HRT 1-2, high fives on the podium and a Colin Kolles smile. :D But seriously though, I'm seeing another Red Bull pole, but Ferrari will win. If it rains, McLaren will win.
 
In 2001 the FIA made an agreement with the tobacco companies, the racing teams and the World Health Organisation that all association with Tobacco and Formula 1 would end in 2006. In 2005 the EU passed the law to prevent tobacco advertising and tried to implement it on F1 (note EU and not world). The fall out of the 2006 season then ensued with the then 'subliminal' or 'clever' advertising strategies.

Taking Ferrari as an example:

But they are not breaking rules because they are not advertising Marlboro. As Hun said, it is merely association.
 
Button for the win.

I can just see his tyres outlasting those of the Red Bull drivers. He will take the lead in the latter part of the race and bring home a victory. Vettel second, Alonso third.
 
But they are not breaking rules because they are not advertising Marlboro. As Hun said, it is merely association.

The rule as it stood and which can only be cited through journalists reports is no advertising or sponsorship. How is association not sponsorship or advertising?

All teams were fairly given five years to make alternative arrangements, teams like Williams, to their own detriment, withdrew all association early. I don't understand why other teams are allowed exemption to the rule.
 
The rule as it stood and which can only be cited through journalists reports is no advertising or sponsorship. How is association not sponsorship or advertising?

All teams were fairly given five years to make alternative arrangements, teams like Williams, to their own detriment, withdrew all association early. I don't understand why other teams are allowed exemption to the rule.

Because the image is not a copyright of Marlboro, the association is made by you, the viewer. Therefore, it is not advertising Marlboro.
The image combined with your knowledge of Ferrari's previous sponsorship and the Marlboro colours is what makes it advertising. But the image alone is not advertising.

I don't really get why you care so much - but thats a debate for the other thread.
 
Because the image is not a copyright of Marlboro, the association is made by you, the viewer. Therefore, it is not advertising Marlboro.
The image combined with your knowledge of Ferrari's previous sponsorship and the Marlboro colours is what makes it advertising. But the image alone is not advertising.

I don't really get why you care so much - but thats a debate for the other thread.

The association is in the name 'Ferrari Scuderia Marlboro'.

Why do I care? Formula 1, or at least getting to the top, is about ingenuity. Every now and then the rules get changed and if you don't comply you get penalised. Ferrari however seem to work to a different set of rules.

It is a current topic of debate, it is therefore relevant to this weekends GP.

Of the first practice session, Renault have a new main sponsor, Lotus have sprung a new mini rear wing, McLaren have a strange intake-like-looking device under the nose and Schumi was third, behind the two McLaren.
 
The association is in the name 'Ferrari Scuderia Marlboro'.

Why do I care? Formula 1, or at least getting to the top, is about ingenuity. Every now and then the rules get changed and if you don't comply you get penalised. Ferrari however seem to work to a different set of rules.

It is a current topic of debate, it is therefore relevant to this weekends GP.

Of the first practice session, Renault have a new main sponsor, Lotus have sprung a new mini rear wing, McLaren have a strange intake-like-looking device under the nose and Schumi was third, behind the two McLaren.

That sounds more like setting up a new set of rules to penalise Ferrari for something no one cared about till some silly doctors decided to notice recently. There was nothing stopping other teams working out similar deals - they chose not to mostly because tobacco companies wouldn't get any worth from it without the long-term use like the barcode.
I think the issue is rather pathetic now its been 4 years for anyone to complain about this. Now its a problem? Why now?

Why is innovation wrong for sponsorship and money but right for aerodynamics like you seem be suggesting?

And I doubt many people even know the full name of the team, as its rarely mentioned and only briefly seen in the pit garage. People always ask who STR are.
 
That sounds more like setting up a new set of rules to penalise Ferrari for something no one cared about till some silly doctors decided to notice recently. There was nothing stopping other teams working out similar deals - they chose not to mostly because tobacco companies wouldn't get any worth from it without the long-term use like the barcode.
I think the issue is rather pathetic now its been 4 years for anyone to complain about this. Now its a problem? Why now?

Why is innovation wrong for sponsorship and money but right for aerodynamics like you seem be suggesting?

And I doubt many people even know the full name of the team, as its rarely mentioned and only briefly seen in the pit garage. People always ask who STR are.

I, like you, can only imagine the contents of the concorde agreement but, I am willing to bet that revenue from tobacco advertising was the main sticking point and the reason it took so long to be passed - remember Ferrari were the main protractors.

Great teams hit the wall or became also-rans due to this ban, including Lotus and Williams and for what?

I don't think doctors are silly.

Williams and McLaren, as two independent teams, coped with the change to a lesser or greater degree through innovative sponsorship. McLaren used the transitional period with the Mercedes partnership, Williams had BMW and HP to name a few. Williams were probably the most innovative but not as successful in generating the finances required to maintain the top level they were enjoying.

Ferrari's recent past glory can, I think fairly, be accredited to the massive financial support of a company that no government, in Europe at least, condones. I really don't see how this is being innovative, I would compare it more to becoming rich by robbing a bank.
 
So instead of congragulating Ferrari's ingenuity in solving this particular financial problem, we should instead drag them down?
This makes no sense, almost jealousy in a sense. This is not Ferrari's wrong doing and more to do with the stupidity of banning tobacco sponsorship in the first place.
Its worth pointing out that Williams steadily declined before the outright ban on tobacco sponsorship. And Lotus went out of the sport for bigger problems than sponsorship ;).

And the doctors are very silly, one for taking 4 years to notice. Two for missing the fact that Ducati also run the same deal. Three because it was pretty bloody obvious. Smells like lazy doctors trying to sound like they're doing something rather than having legitimate concerns.
 
So instead of congragulating Ferrari's ingenuity in solving this particular financial problem, we should instead drag them down?
This makes no sense, almost jealousy in a sense. This is not Ferrari's wrong doing and more to do with the stupidity of banning tobacco sponsorship in the first place.
Its worth pointing out that Williams steadily declined before the outright ban on tobacco sponsorship. And Lotus went out of the sport for bigger problems than sponsorship ;).

And the doctors are very silly, one for taking 4 years to notice. Two for missing the fact that Ducati also run the same deal. Three because it was pretty bloody obvious. Smells like lazy doctors trying to sound like they're doing something rather than having legitimate concerns.

It isn't ingenuity, they have just defied an agreement. The fact that they are continuing to defy it is what the protest is about. I am certainly not saying that Ferrari should be 'dragged down' but, in their own interests, they have been playing this fiddle for too long and they need to get a fix before too long or they probably will suffer for it.
 
I said it already. Whatever Ferrari designs in their engine cover will, from now on, be associated with Marlboro. And Philip Morris can thank these doctors for that.

If it's a circle, it will remind us of the circular shape of cigarettes

If it's a square, it will remind us of the rectangular shape of a pack

etc

Back to Formula 1, just 4 things I think are worthy of a comment:

1. even if I'm not a Schumi fan, I'm over 40 so I was glad to see Schumi do well this morning :D

2. The Ferraris were so off the pace I suspect they were testing heavy loads

3. McLarens up there beating the RBR guys is promising

4. Christian Klien made the best of his chance to drive in F1. Maybe he should be promoted from test to race driver?

Have a nice day, you all F1 fans :)
 
I said it already. Whatever Ferrari designs in their engine cover will, from now on, be associated with Marlboro. And Philip Morris can thank these doctors for that.

If it's a circle, it will remind us of the circular shape of cigarettes

If it's a square, it will remind us of the rectangular shape of a pack

etc

Back to Formula 1, just 4 things I think are worthy of a comment:

1. even if I'm not a Schumi fan, I'm over 40 so I was glad to see Schumi do well this morning :D

2. The Ferraris were so off the pace I suspect they were testing heavy loads

3. McLarens up there beating the RBR guys is promising

4. Christian Klien made the best of his chance to drive in F1. Maybe he should be promoted from test to race driver?

Have a nice day, you all F1 fans :)

I think we have all learned that you can't read much from these practice sessions that give any clear indication of qualy or race performance.

Schumi was definitely on it though, Alonso had his best P1 session of the season and McLaren usually top the practice sessions.

Have a good day yourself :)
 
Back to Formula 1, just 4 things I think are worthy of a comment:

1. even if I'm not a Schumi fan, I'm over 40 so I was glad to see Schumi do well this morning :D

2. The Ferraris were so off the pace I suspect they were testing heavy loads

3. McLarens up there beating the RBR guys is promising

4. Christian Klien made the best of his chance to drive in F1. Maybe he should be promoted from test to race driver?

Have a nice day, you all F1 fans :)

To replace who though? Senna and Chandhok have not really done badly, though its difficult to tell with such a horrible car.
Hispania should have really started with an experienced driver though.
 
I like the Catalunya track and to be honest its just nice to have a grand prix weekend again, hopefully it will be a good race, looking forward to it, it will be interesting to see how well Alonso does and see Schumacher/Mercedes progress.
 
If Christian Klien gets a race drive, he better be replacing Chandhok and not Senna. Or else i'd not really care much about HRT anymore.
 
If Christian Klien gets a race drive, he better be replacing Chandhok and not Senna. Or else i'd not really care much about HRT anymore.

So you only care about a name and a helmet? Chandhok has been doing well for himself all things considered. Its difficult to judge which driver is doing better in that team because the car is so terrible though.
I'd rather not see either driver kicked out, as both are great personalities and still haven't had a chance to prove themselves.

Anyway, with that team its all about the money.
 
still one more practice session left before qualifying. Looked to me Hamilton and Button were held up a bit on their fast laps. Shummy has made a bit of a comeback, if you can call it that. I don't think he's lost a great deal of any of his skills. The car wasn't to his liking, so scoring points was a blessing in itself. I say qualifying is going to be very interesting. But hopefully final practice shows more from the other teams.
 
So you only care about a name and a helmet? Chandhok has been doing well for himself all things considered. Its difficult to judge which driver is doing better in that team because the car is so terrible though.
I'd rather not see either driver kicked out, as both are great personalities and still haven't had a chance to prove themselves.

Anyway, with that team its all about the money.

Exactly, plus if anything they should kick Senna based on race results. But IMO letting Klien drive for the race would be a stupid move right now either way.
 
I just read an interview with Button on the F1 website.

Q: The Red Bulls again look very quick, so how do you see them for this weekend?
JB: I might have to say that they might be untouchable for this Grand Prix. We are not feeling happy with our car, as we are not getting a good lap time out of it. And yes, for them it is a real good job to be in the 1m19s. So they must have done a good job on their package. But as I said before, the race is like a marathon and qualifying the sprint distance - and points will be allocated after 66 laps.

Sounds like he isn't very confident about Sunday.
 
So you only care about a name and a helmet? Chandhok has been doing well for himself all things considered. Its difficult to judge which driver is doing better in that team because the car is so terrible though.
I'd rather not see either driver kicked out, as both are great personalities and still haven't had a chance to prove themselves.

Anyway, with that team its all about the money.

Agreed, it would be unfair to kick either, considering the circumstances both drivers have been very good. Not sure why people are being harsh on Chandhok
 
Well it keeps the championship close but its suggesting a very boring and predictable race if Red Bull close off the front row in qualy. We desperately need rain for this race, or for the rookies to go wild.
 
The race is never boring if your team is winning. So, if Red Bull does well, this race won't be boring!:D
 
I just read an interview with Button on the F1 website.



Sounds like he isn't very confident about Sunday.

That just sounds like a typical cool and calm JB quote. Red Bull have dominated qualifying all season, their race performance has been pretty poor in comparison. Given the choice of points or poles, what would you prefer?

Neither McLaren has qualified higher than 4th on the grid and yet, they lead both championships and have the most race wins. I'm not saying this will be the outcome this weekend but, it is not a foregone conclusion.
 
Finally Schumacher has some pace... Qualify will be interesting
 
Finally Schumacher has some pace... Qualify will be interesting

In previous testing sessions he has always done fairly well. But when it came to qualifying he just wasn't good enough, we've seen that all the way through. As for the race itself, he was good in bahrain and for the first half of the race in China he was good too, it was mostly in the latter part of the race (Well, after Lewis passed him) that cars began to pass him repeatedly. In Australia he damaged his front wing and also his chassis. In Malaysia he lost a wheel nut.

We haven't really seen a race where he has had a chance to prove himself once again in the sport. Bahrain, his first race back and yet he held his position well. At China he battled with Hamilton for a few laps, then for some reason he pace suffered towards the end, maybe the car had a poor setup for the wet?

Maybe this will be his weekend. Could be a podium for him if all goes well. A race win is doubtful, but we'll see.
 
well his never been so far ahead of rosberg consistently in testing ever.. so in fairness to rosberg, we dont know his fuel levels, so thats why it will be interesting in qualify
 
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