2010 new teams discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ardius
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Miss three races? What have those teams been doing all this time that makes them need 2 more months?
 
Missing races has never benefitted a team. I can't think of one example team that survived very long after it had missed races in order to help finances. It does more damage than good, as clearly, a team that is competitive would be better off attempting to get to the first race and convince sponsors that they can pull it off. Missing races just creates more questions over the team and causes the team to be in a worse position.

Next time, FIA, bring in competent teams who have proven finances behind them like Prodrive and Lola. Its quite clear that Campos especially has miscalculated how easy it would be to gain the remaining sponsorship, if they are still looking for the money.
If Campos or USF1 miss races, they are not going to do themselves any good, they are better off running out of money by going to Bahrain and running the cars. At least then sponsors could see that they can make races and that they may actually have competitive cars with some promise.

I feel bad for Senna and Lopez (and Argentina) if neither team makes it.
 
I'm a bit confused about the Tendering process now...

Why did these 2 get selected when they clearly can't make it?!

What about the other 5 or so that were asking to be in?

C.
 
yeti
I'm a bit confused about the Tendering process now...

Why did these 2 get selected when they clearly can't make it?!

What about the other 5 or so that were asking to be in?

C.
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Its 1 of 3 possiblities:

1. They can make it, just looks bad from the outside.

2. They lied on their application.

3. The FIA didn't care about their ability to make it, but used some other criteria ($$$, ₤₤₤, €€€) to select entries.
 
It seems there has been some movement on the Campos front. It's still oly speculative, but it's starting to be picked up by some more mainstream sources. Stefan GP have gone from changing their song to pushing for acceptance as a fourteenth team. That's a big change, and the implication is that the two teams they were banking on as being in trouble may have found a second wind. It seems Volkswagen have gone from outright denying involvement in a Colin Kolles effort to acquire Campos to neither confirming nor denying it, another big change. An announcement on the matter could come as early as the end of the week. The suggestion is that Campos will leve his team, with Jose Maria Cabarante taking control and selling to Kolles, who could have bacing from Volkswagen. Volkswagen have expressed an interest in joining the grid in 2011 under certain conditions - a "world engine" seems high on their list of pre-requisites - but acquiring a team through Kolles would be a major step forward because with a limited number of grid positions available, they'd have to wait for someone to back out otherwise if they want a full team. Volkswagen also own Audi, SEAT, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti and have a major interest in Porsche. Any one of those could be put forward as a potential marque; some pundits seem to have their eye on Audi or SEAT as the most likely, and there has been te outside suggestion of reviving Hispano Suiza (of all names!). The name Epsilon Euskadi has also been put forward. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Bugatti team.

Elsewhere, USF1 are reported as being in serious strife. Chad Hurley has allegedly backed out, with some sources claiming he's going to be one of Kolles' backers or could even go to an established team. It seems that the team's sponsorship money hasn't been paid in the way it wassupposed to be, or something. Whatever the case, it seems that Peter Windsor has left Charlotte for a mercy mission to Europe to acquire a chassis. Lola has one lying around that they could use, or, oddly enough, the Toyota TF110. Some reports have emerged that Zoran Stefanovic hasn't actually paid Toyota for the chassis as yet (despite reports that at least one of them has been painted "Serbian Olympic Red"). Other insane suggestions are that Stefan will buy Campos' Dallara chassis, and Campos will retaliate by buying Stefan's Toyota chassis. It has also been reported that Stefan could join the regular teams for the final test in Barcelona, but to do that, they'd need an invite, and to get an invite, they'd need a grid entry.

So however this plays out, it's very likely that the final grid will look very different to what it did a few months ago. 2009-2010 is going to go down as the silliest silly season ever.
 
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Elsewhere, USF1 are reported as being in serious strife. Chad Hurley has allegedly backed out, with some sources claiming he's going to be one of Kolles' backers or could even go to an established team. It seems that the team's sponsorship money hasn't been paid in the way it wassupposed to be, or something. Whatever the case, it seems that Peter Windsor has left Charlotte for a mercy mission to Europe to acquire a chassis. Lola has one lying around that they could use, or, oddly enough, the Toyota TF110. Some reports have emerged that Zoran Stefanovic hasn't actually paid Toyota for the chassis as yet (despite reports that at least one of them has been painted "Serbian Olympic Red").

So however this plays out, it's very likely that the final grid will look very different to what it did a few months ago. 2009-2010 is going to go down as the silliest silly season ever.
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Damn! Where did you get this info from about USF1? Whats next Peter can go to Chip Ganassi and get one of the Delta Wing cars. :crazy: I'm really hoping for a US team.
 
Radracing
Damn! Where did you get this info from about USF1?
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Picked it up off the internet. You just need to know where to look. I doubt Windsor will be able to do much, though - if he can't pay his staff, there's no way he can buy a chassis, let alone two of them. Argentine reports claim he and Ken Anderson have already told Jose Maria Lopez that the team won't be racing in 2010.
 
If this is the case... good job Windsor :rolleyes: Now I suggest you pack your bags and go back to Australia, England or wherever you call home. What business you had building an American F1 team to begin with, is beyond me :ouch:

Here's a article I found on AW, posted just a few hours ago...things aren't looking good for them:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100217/FREE/100219906

Edit: Hopefully I won't have to listen to Windsors annoying personality ever again, as a team owner or as a track reporter on SpeedTV's F1 coverage :lol: :)
 
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You think they need a stimulus package from the Fed? :sly: Sad day for American motorsports.
 
Now, timeattack, do you really think that the first half of your post is even partly acceptable? I can understand that you don't seem to care for Windsor or the USF1 project, but surely you can come up with a more respectful way of making your point known.

Nice story link though.

ON TOPIC: From what I've seen of testing, I doubt Campos has half a shot of surviving the season, even without sponsors withdrawing, due to their lack of testing. I don't know if Virgin's times were all set in awful conditions or what, but their 'car staying together' issues are somewhat frightening, as is their (albeit improving) pace. I can't imagine how bad USF1, Campos, or Stefan would look. O_o

From what Virgin has shown us, Campos is in as bad of trouble as USF1 if they don't
 
Skyline49
Now, timeattack, do you really think that the first half of your post is even partly acceptable? I can understand that you don't seem to care for Windsor or the USF1 project, but surely you can come up with a more respectful way of making your point known.
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The only person who should get offended should be Peter Windsor, not you or anyone else. IMO, my statement is more acceptable than Peter Windsor being so eager to create an American based Formula 1 team when he's not even American, only to call it off at the last second, giving the US a bad image in Formula 1 and to motorsports fans in general 👎 So the point I was trying to make is exactly how I wrote it...sorry if you don't agree.
 
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They weren't even going to have American drivers, so so what

I would have cared that USF1 won't be racing if they were going to give Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal rides. I dont care if Rahal and Andretti are slower then some no name driver that they got now, they have to have known American drivers to get interest. Whoever drives will be racing at the back anyways so who cares.

So is USF1 dead forever or will they just wait and be ready next year?
 
Earth
They weren't even going to have American drivers, so so what
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timeattack07gt
I agree. Another reason why USF1 is a joke.
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I actually think this would have been a blessing in disguise - if the team had been able to make it to their second season. What would be a better choice: to have an inexperienced American driver racing for an inexperienced American team, to to have an inexperienced American driver racing for an American team with some experience to its credit? A team's second season is regarded as its hardest because there are no excuses for mistakes because they are no longer rookies, but the virtue here is that the team would have had a year to find its feet and work out the kinks in its operational side of things at the races. I think it would have given a rookie American driver a better chance at success, and while that "better chance" may be very slight, at least it would have been there.
 
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I actually think this would have been a blessing in disguise - if the team had been able to make it to their second season. What would be a better choice: to have an inexperienced American driver racing for an inexperienced American team, to to have an inexperienced American driver racing for an American team with some experience to its credit? A team's second season is regarded as its hardest because there are no excuses for mistakes because they are no longer rookies, but the virtue here is that the team would have had a year to find its feet and work out the kinks in its operational side of things at the races. I think it would have given a rookie American driver a better chance at success, and while that "better chance" may be very slight, at least it would have been there.
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True - But that all boiled down to USF1 being in financial quick sand to begin with, which was obviously their biggest problem by far when it came to even being able to produce a car on time. IF they had the proper finances like some of the new teams (Virgin & Lotus), which is necessary in order to have a realistic shot at staying in F1 for more than 1 year, they would have likely hired American drivers, or least a experienced line-up.... not two relative no name pay drivers.
 
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Autosport report Jose Ramon Cabarante to acquire Campos from Adrian Campos, with Colin Kolles and Geoff Willis confirmed as being involved with the team. They're unlikely to make the testing sessions, though.
 
timeattack07gt
True - But that all boiled down to USF1 being in financial quick sand to begin with, which was obviously their biggest problem by far when it came to even being able to produce a car on time. IF they had the proper finances like some of the new teams (Virgin & Lotus), which is necessary in order to have a realistic shot at staying in F1 for more than 1 year, they would have likely hired American drivers, or least a experienced line-up.... not two relative no name pay drivers.
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Do the American sponsors not want to go into F1, surely there's enough companies, Brands or franchises to want to be the first to help their own. Is it the fact that it isn't an American (P.W.) trying to get a team off the ground.
 
zed300
Do the American sponsors not want to go into F1, surely there's enough companies, Brands or franchises to want to be the first to help their own. Is it the fact that it isn't an American (P.W.) trying to get a team off the ground.
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I might be more of social classes. I this network of high circle most American sponsors would feel out of place in a series not in thier control. They feel more at home with NASCAR thats why that is where the money and sponsors are for them. So the benefits of international exposure to them is not a high priority.

Until a really big American company thinks it is a big benefit to them to spend that kind of money for that kind of exposure to be able to hob nob with the social elites of the world that will only be the time we will see a real comitment to an American F1 team. So I woouldn't blame Peter Windsor for failing. I blame corporate America which is probably foriegn owned for not stepping up to the plate. At least Peter had the balls to try. I think USF1 is not finished until they make it public. Who knows maybe someone in the US has the balls to setup and figure it can be profitable to take a chance and see what we are made of.
 
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interludes
Autosport report Jose Ramon Cabarante to acquire Campos from Adrian Campos, with Colin Kolles and Geoff Willis confirmed as being involved with the team. They're unlikely to make the testing sessions, though.
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If Dallara have been paid in time, they can make Barcelona, but that has to happen right now and the team needs to mobilise.
Sounds at least a little more like they may make Bahrain at least.
 
I said it before, it's not something directly under USF1's control. When a sponsor pulls the rug out from under your feet, what are you supposed to do? You can sue them for breach of contract, but until it gets settled, nobody's paying the bills.
 
SUPER NUMBBER
I said it before, it's not something directly under USF1's control. When a sponsor pulls the rug out from under your feet, what are you supposed to do? You can sue them for breach of contract, but until it gets settled, nobody's paying the bills.
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Hmm, see the USF1 thread for my response to this.

But I'll also add specifically to this argument that money, budget, etc is meant to be done and sorted when they first applied back last year! For this very reason that if the FIA just let teams in with promises of "finding the sponsors later" said teams would inevitably either fail to show up or stuggle.
If you attempt to run and develop a team at the same time as finding the budget, you get the situation that USF1 and Campos are in where they fall very far behind schedule and the situation turns into a vicious circle as the press catches onto their stuggle. Who wants to invest in a team who is already behind schedule and have not properly planned ahead?

They knew the economical situation before they entered and its not anyone's fault but their own if they couldn't find sponsorship. The fact other teams managed to secure sponsors and money suggest it wasn't oh so difficult to find the investors. After all, Manor and Litespeed were in the same position at the start of last year - no sponsors, facilities etc. But USF1 has allegedly been "planned for years" and was the first new team to be announced.
 
Yeah, but the difference with Parente and USF1 is, USF1 as far as I know, hasn't had any sponsors pull out till now..when its clear the team is in trouble. In fact, they were bringing in the money fairly steadily from the sounds of it, especially with the Lopez deal.
 
Ardius
Hmm, see the USF1 thread for my response to this.

But I'll also add specifically to this argument that money, budget, etc is meant to be done and sorted when they first applied back last year! For this very reason that if the FIA just let teams in with promises of "finding the sponsors later" said teams would inevitably either fail to show up or stuggle.
If you attempt to run and develop a team at the same time as finding the budget, you get the situation that USF1 and Campos are in where they fall very far behind schedule and the situation turns into a vicious circle as the press catches onto their stuggle. Who wants to invest in a team who is already behind schedule and have not properly planned ahead?

They knew the economical situation before they entered and its not anyone's fault but their own if they couldn't find sponsorship. The fact other teams managed to secure sponsors and money suggest it wasn't oh so difficult to find the investors. After all, Manor and Litespeed were in the same position at the start of last year - no sponsors, facilities etc. But USF1 has allegedly been "planned for years" and was the first new team to be announced.
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Again, if rumors are to be believed, they did in fact have the sponsors, but like I said, apparently they backed out at the last minute. That's not down to procrastinating on the funding, they HAD the sponsors, or so they thought.
 
Well, hopefully in the next few weeks we will find out what went wrong and who is at fault. Certainly this will make a great book to read one day! :lol:

Whoever is to blame, Windsor or Hurley (or someone else?), the team has been mis-managed and have not been meeting deadlines.
 
Ardius
If Dallara have been paid in time, they can make Barcelona, but that has to happen right now and the team needs to mobilise.
Sounds at least a little more like they may make Bahrain at least.
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Depends on how much of the ar has been completed. No-one really knows for sure, there's varying reports ranging from it only being half-done to the car being finished and Dallara are simply waiting for a payment to release it to the team.

zed300
Do the American sponsors not want to go into F1, surely there's enough companies, Brands or franchises to want to be the first to help their own. Is it the fact that it isn't an American (P.W.) trying to get a team off the ground.
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The worst recession since the 1930s didn't help much.

Ardius
Whoever is to blame, Windsor or Hurley (or someone else?), the team has been mis-managed and have not been meeting deadlines.
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I'd say Windsor. Hurley just fronted the money.
 
Virgin doing well on the video front at least:

👍

Also, the latest Lotus-related video:
 
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zed300
Do the American sponsors not want to go into F1, surely there's enough companies, Brands or franchises to want to be the first to help their own. Is it the fact that it isn't an American (P.W.) trying to get a team off the ground.
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It may have something to do with the fact F1 gets little exposure here. I think if F1 had a USGP sponsors may be more willing to be on a car since there would at least be some exposure in the US.
 
I think blaming one or two persons for USF1's downfall is a little out of sorts. A project of this size, has more than a one point of direction to guide it, unless they are totally financially supporting the deal.

Ok a recesssion will keep the risk takers away, but that's what it going to take to get a USA F1 team of the ground.

This is P.W. first go at all of the above, he is a reporter by trade,( please correct me if I'm wrong).He obviously needed help creating this, but maybe he was arrogant to try and do it own his own, if indeed this is the case. He must be able to see the expansion into the US will be of an advantage to all, and wanted to be there when it happens. We may see 30 F1 cars on the grid within 10 years, who knows.
 
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