2010 VW Beetle

[Philly]

That sounds like a lot of work for something that would ultimately serve the same purpose as the Golf. The Golf is the Beetle successor anyway.

What about the Up!? That might make for a better Beetle "revival" (Golf being the "successor") than a dressed-up Golf could be.

 

[homeforsummer]

That sounds like a lot of work for something that would ultimately serve the same purpose as the Golf. The Golf is the Beetle successor anyway.

The Golf can't really be called a Beetle successor any more. At one stage, when it was the smallest Volkswagen available and relatively inexpensive, it could lay claim to that, but now there are two cars below it in the model range. It's not the peoples' car it once was.

What about the Up!? That might make for a better Beetle "revival" (Golf being the "successor") than a dressed-up Golf could be.

The Up! would be a good choice, and if it's inexpensive to buy, run and maintain, it has a good chance of being the spiritual successor to the original Beetle. Unfortunately, it's already losing the rear-rear drivetrain for cost reasons (a good sign in a way, as it means Volkswagen are wanting to keep the costs down for non-essential things like the location of the engine).

I don't mind the new Beetle being a retro fashion accessory as long as they do it well. The original Beetle did that well (I doubt the MINI would have either been retro, or called the MINI had the Beetle not proved retro could sell - the early concepts weren't very retro) but given the opportunity for a re-design it'd be a pity if they came out with a glorified facelift like I'm expecting them to. It at least needs the qualities of the MINI - fun, and compactness - for it to be competitive.

 

[Philly]

The Golf can't really be called a Beetle successor any more. At one stage, when it was the smallest Volkswagen available and relatively inexpensive, it could lay claim to that, but now there are two cars below it in the model range. It's not the peoples' car it once was.

Is the Golf selling more cars than the Polo or the Fox? The "People's car" doesn't have to be the smallest car, just the one that's going to get everybody on the road.

But maybe "People's Car" could just mean one that's designed to be the most economical car possible to get the most people on the road possible, like the TATA Nano.

 

[homeforsummer]

Is the Golf selling more cars than the Polo or the Fox? The "People's car" doesn't have to be the smallest car, just the one that's going to get everybody on the road.

But maybe "People's Car" could just mean one that's designed to be the most economical car possible to get the most people on the road possible, like the TATA Nano.

I don't have, neither can I find, sales figures comparing the Golf/Polo/Fox, so unfortunately I can't answer the first question. But I think your second comment sums it up for me, a true "peoples car" is one that mobilises people. They may well sell more Golfs than Polos or Foxes (they probably do, in truth) but put those three cars in a country where personal transport is much more of a luxury, and I'd expect the cheapest of the trio to sell the best.

And as I was mentioning about the Fox, just like the Beetle it was designed specifically to provide cheap, reliable and economical transport to the countries in which it is sold, namely the South Americas. It's a bit of a fish out of water in Europe where the competition is a little more sophisticated and stylish.

Now a true "peoples' car" in Europe could be leveled at VW if they sold the Mexican Pointer/Brazilian Gol over here. Given that it appears right at the bottom of the range in both these countries yet from appearance looks about Golf Mk4 sized, it can certainly lay claim to being the peoples' family car.

 

[95GTIVR6]

Now I remember where I've seen this design.

Anyone remember the Ragster concept? Volkswagen showed it in 2005, and did say it was what the new Beetle could look like. Apparently, they didn't change their mind 4 years later.

That was the first thing that came to mind!

It doesnt looks THAT bad. Although it has a 'ba-donk-a-donk' look to it.

 

[Greycap]

It doesnt looks THAT bad.

True. Unfortunately it doesn't look like a Beetle either.

 

[Tornado]

It will, if executed properly. The MINI and 500 are both proof of that 👍

That is true. Unfortunately, VW has been doing it wrong for 8 years now.

 

[homeforsummer]

That is true. Unfortunately, VW has been doing it wrong for 8 years now.

They haven't been that far off the mark; the main trouble is the market has changed in those 8 years. The Beetle was, and still is a fashion accessory - but in 8 years fashion has changed a great degree. The MINI and 500 have the benefit of youth - the MINI in particular has had a complete overhaul in much less than the time the Beetle has only had a facelift. They're smaller, more economical, and more chic. The Beetle needs to downsize and even go more retro.

 

[Tornado]

I think you are missing the reasoning why the New Beetle is so terrible, and it has to do with the fact that if you strip away the retro style, you have a piece of crap car based on the old Golf that costs more than the new Golf yet has less room, practicality, etc. If you strip away the retro from the 500, you have a slightly impractical Fiat Panda that drives a hell of a lot better. The same with the Mini.
The Mini and 500 are successful (and quality) because if you strip away the retro bits, you have a car that attempts to rectify with the original in some meaningful way. The 500 is closer to the old 500 than the Mini is, but the Mini at least shares the fun-to-drive aspect that the original car had if nothing else. Even the Ford Mustang shares many driving aspects with the old car it apes, such as the feeling you have when driving it. On paper, all of these cars should be compromised by their retro design; yet they all use it to great advantage when combined with the otherwise great car underneath.

The Volkswagen New Beetle, however, is nothing but a fashion accessory. The very worst kind of retro design, it exists solely to appeal to those who viewed the original car as a fashion accessory without bringing any of the other characteristics that made it endearing to those who didn't drive it because it was popular. The market for the New Beetle did not change, nor did the fashion of retro designs (the Mustang, Mini and 500 show that in spades). The thing that did change was that VW ran out of yuppie idiots to sell the car to.
Calling the New Beetle a good car is essentially tantamount to saying the Chevrolet SSR was, or the Ford Retrobird was. Bad cars that sell on retro design rather than any redeeming values fail, and the only difference wth the New Beetle is that VW is irrationally committed to producing it regardless of the fact that no one buys into it anymore.

 

[95GTIVR6]

The Volkswagen New Beetle, however, is nothing but a fashion accessory. The very worst kind of retro design, it exists solely to appeal to those who viewed the original car as a fashion accessory without bringing any of the other characteristics that made it endearing to those who didn't drive it because it was popular.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think you are missing the reasoning why the New Beetle is so terrible, and it has to do with the fact that if you strip away the retro style, you have a piece of crap car based on the old Golf that costs more than the new Golf yet has less room, practicality, etc.

I don't think any of us are disputing that, however, the shortsightedness of the VW brass is hardly the only reason to damn the idea of a new New Beetle altogether. Given that the new car will be based on the MKVI chassis, with all of the fancy goodness that will come with it, who is to say that VW won't do a good/better job with it to give VW fans the MINI/500-fighter that we deserve?

I've got faith in VW, especially now that they're talking about reviving the Microbus again, but as for them getting the execution just right... I'm not sure. We're still two years out on the new car, and either way, I think the market will drive it to be something far-better than what its predecessor ever dreamed of being.

 

[Robin]

They should make the microbus first!

 

[homeforsummer]

...you have a piece of crap car based on the old Golf that costs more than the new Golf yet has less room, practicality, etc. If you strip away the retro from the 500, you have a slightly impractical Fiat Panda that drives a hell of a lot better. The same with the Mini.

The 500 isn't apparently any better to drive than the Panda, and comparing like-for-like (say, Panda 100HP against the 100bhp 500) the 500 is supposed to be a little wooly and soft.

But I digress. I'm not a big fan of the Beetle, more like I think "it's okay" but some of the criticisms leveled against it are a little harsh. The Beetle is no less practical to the Golf than the 500 is to the Panda, and performance suffers no worse in comparison between the two pairs either.

The MINI is a standalone car so can't really be compared (instead, BMW releases models like the Clubman and the upcoming SAV version which make the car more practical but ruin the looks of the original).

The Mini and 500 are successful (and quality) because if you strip away the retro bits, you have a car that attempts to rectify with the original in some meaningful way. The 500 is closer to the old 500 than the Mini is, but the Mini at least shares the fun-to-drive aspect that the original car had if nothing else.

I'd argue that the MINI is closer to the original, thanks to it's road manners and the fact that it shares the same layout. Much as I like the 500, it's equally as much of a fashion trinket as the Beetle is. Both cars are bigger and have a completely different drivetrain layout to the originals.

The Volkswagen New Beetle, however, is nothing but a fashion accessory. The very worst kind of retro design, it exists solely to appeal to those who viewed the original car as a fashion accessory without bringing any of the other characteristics that made it endearing to those who didn't drive it because it was popular.

That's not really worthy of berating the company, nor the people who buy the cars though. Many buyers wouldn't care, nor notice, if it was rear engined and rear drive, for example.

The MINI is a fantastic car but there will always be a collection of bearded gits who think it doesn't deserve to exist because it isn't tiny and doesn't have an A-series engine. And plenty of modern buyers who buy the MINI don't give two short stuffs about the heritage of the original, nor care how the modern car drives. We're just lucky that BMW did want to build a genuinely fun car - because they'd still sell loads of them even it was rubbish, just because many buyers only want the styling and the ability to decorate the roof with their country's flag.

In essence, VW provided the market with a pastiche with no link to the original save for the name and styling that echoes the original. And they still found plenty of buyers, just like BMW would have if the MINI was a disappointing handler.

The thing that did change was that VW ran out of yuppie idiots to sell the car to.

I'm expecting from this comment that the market for the car is probably very different in the States to that of the UK - I can't recall the last time I saw a new Beetle driven by anything other than a young woman. The yuppie idiots you're referring to probably are the sort of annoying people who buy it solely as a fashion accessory to go with their Aviators and their brand new cellphones. In the UK, girls just think it's cute and don't really care about the original.

Calling the New Beetle a good car is essentially tantamount to saying the Chevrolet SSR was, or the Ford Retrobird was... and the only difference wth the New Beetle is that VW is irrationally committed to producing it regardless of the fact that no one buys into it anymore

The Beetle isn't a bad car though - even if it's not an especially good one. It's just a Golf for buyers who don't want a bog-standard hatch. It wouldn't be so bad for VW if they took the opportunity to go in the MINI or 500 direction with any new New Beetle, i.e. smaller, more chic etc, just as I mentioned earlier. The car isn't doomed, it's just not being executed properly for today's buyers and car enthusiasts.

I think the other thing to highlight is that, as a forum of genuine car enthusiasts, we may know our stuff but we don't have a particularly good handle on what the general public as a whole want. If we were right about everything, then no manufacturer would ever sell a single crap car - yet they still sell...