2011 Driver Transfer Market

[Lee]

Is that where Liuzzi is going?

I can see him joining Piquet jr in trying to crack NASCAR.

 

[astrosdude91]

Or Indy perhaps. The American racing series' seem to be the destination if you can't get a job in Formula One.

Speaking of American motorsports, Paul Di Resta is IRL driver Dario Franchitti's cousin. It all comes full circle!

 

[Crimson]

Saw about di Resta on BBC Sport.

Considering he just won a contract in the world's most famous race series, why does he look so bloody miserable?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Considering he just won a contract in the world's most famous race series, why does he look so bloody miserable?

Because he's Scottish.

 

[Lee]

Because he's Scottish.

I was thinking of saying that, but then remembered daan's existance and thought for the better.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm well aware of daan's existence, but I'm also a super mod.

I've also noticed that nobody form cotland sounds like Sean Connery.

 

[Ardius]

It was pretty obvious when they announced that Force India would make the announcement in Glasgow.

Nice to see Di Resta joining the squad. And Hulkenberg has a job too! Maybe Force India will finally get a win this year.

Now all eyes are on HRT. Is that where Liuzzi is going?

Force India and wins may be difficult, they are potentially looking at falling backwards this year after losing almost all of their senior staff in 2010. James Key went to Sauber early on and Mark Smith and the rest of the engineering and design side of Force India have almost all moved to Team Lotus to re-join Gascoyne.
Force India have replaced the staff with junior personnel but losing so many key people is going to hurt. That said, Mallya did fire Gascoyne and Kolles previously and carried on fine, so we shall see.

Di Resta should still be able to demonstrate some talent even if Force India return to being backmarkers. Sutil is a relatively decent benchmark.

Saw about di Resta on BBC Sport.

Considering he just won a contract in the world's most famous race series, why does he look so bloody miserable?

Well at least we know its about the skills, not the charisma.

I'm well aware of daan's existence, but I'm also a super mod.

So?

 

[astrosdude91]

Apparently, Scuderia Ferrari has never heard of Ford. Cause their 2011 challenger will be the F150.

source.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Yes the whole world facepalmed in unison at the naming of Ferarri's 2011 car.

---
I love how there was little to no mention of Luizzi at all, it's like they pushed him into a bottomless pit.
Luizzi? What's Luizzi? There's no Luizzi here...

I guess this could mean he may appear at HRT/secrecy.

 

[blaaah]

I've never heard of an Ford F150 before, must be an American matter. America is just one country, the whole world has more of a chance of knowing what a Ferrari is.
I'm sure a lot of the world won't know what American Football or Baseball is, I'm British and didn't know such things existed until I was a teenager. A lot of peoples knowledge of America might be that they have a leader called a "president" and he is not a king or a Prime Minister. Nothing else needing to know.
Those were the old days, not too long ago...
Anyway, I wouldn't count any HRT drivers, that team looks like it's heading for the pits, and not for a tyre change but for liquidation. Speculation of course.

 

[Northstar]

I must say your posts have a weird style to them. Not to say it's a bad thing, just a simple observation.

I agree on the HRT part, that team is a mess, have to wonder how bad the failed entries for this year were.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The problem is that that speculation is based on "they're Hispania" rather than anything more solid and substantial.

 

[blaaah]

Is Toyota still trying to get the unpaid bills from HRT, or has that been resolved now?

 

[Northstar]

For starters.

They have no new chassis, they broke ties with Dallara and the Toyota deal fell through. From what I've heard it will basically be the '10 car with some "upgrades" and once again won't have much testing debuting a week prior to the first race at the final test(although I guess at least it's not on race weekend like last year).

There were rumors of them trying to sell the team in December.

They have also left the FOTA supposedly because they didn't pay the 2010 membership fee.

Doesn't exactly sound like a team on solid ground.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Their closest rival this year will be the 107% qualifying rule.

 

[Ardius]

Is Toyota still trying to get the unpaid bills from HRT, or has that been resolved now?

No, they don't have any unpaid bills to Toyota or Dallara.

For starters.

They have no new chassis, they broke ties with Dallara and the Toyota deal fell through. From what I've heard it will basically be the '10 car with some "upgrades" and once again won't have much testing debuting a week prior to the first race at the final test(although I guess at least it's not on race weekend like last year).

There were rumors of them trying to sell the team in December.

They have also left the FOTA supposedly because they didn't pay the 2010 membership fee.

Doesn't exactly sound like a team on solid ground.

How do you know they have no new chassis? Do you have a source? We do know Dallara and Toyota aren't working on anything for them, but that doesn't mean they don't have anything.
They have said they will turn up to all test sessions, but the new car won't be ready till the Bahrain test, what's wrong with that? McLaren's isn't ready for the first test either...
They left FOTA because they didn't feel it was in their interests, only in the larger teams' (which I don't have trouble believing).

Considering Hispania turned up to every race last year, I wouldn't say they are a team in trouble. Its easy to predict them struggling, its always a strugglen to survive as a small team, but they appear to be surviving so far, after all, they are run by the man with a talent for keeping such teams alive.

I agree on the HRT part, that team is a mess, have to wonder how bad the failed entries for this year were.

HRT are in no more a mess right now than Minardi or Arrows ever was. Is it so easy to forget USF1?

 

[F1 fan]

Because he's Scottish.

Ouch...

I've also noticed that nobody form cotland sounds like Sean Connery.

Nope... My grandpa does look like a younger version of him though...

Di Resta should still be able to demonstrate some talent even if Force India return to being backmarkers. Sutil is a relatively decent benchmark.

I'm still not too convinced by sutil. He had a good season in 2010 but he'll need to step it up again. Can anyone seriously see him in a top team yet? Maybe after a slightly better season than 2010, but If force india are heading back down towards the back of the field, I don't see that happening.

For starters.

They have no new chassis, they broke ties with Dallara and the Toyota deal fell through. From what I've heard it will basically be the '10 car with some "upgrades" and once again won't have much testing debuting a week prior to the first race at the final test(although I guess at least it's not on race weekend like last year).

The 2011 car will be a completely new car, and will be called F111.

Kolles said the car is being designed by his own team together with "several groups of engineers".

Maybe you should read this before you speculate further

Stop trying to have a go at HRT. Colin Kolles is a smart man and is always better in tricky situations than most others. While I agree that the reintroduction of the 107% rule may bury the team, they're a genuine racing team and are nowhere near as bad as previous backmarkers. Mastercard Lola anyone? Andrea Moda? Life?

I agree that they need to step it up in terms of development and pace, but you can't argue that they are a professional team. Now let's give them a chance before we write them off. And remember, if new teams didn't try, we'd have a much smaller grid...

For anyone in doubt, check out the rogues gallery

 

[Northstar]

How do you know they have no new chassis? Do you have a source? We do know Dallara and Toyota aren't working on anything for them, but that doesn't mean they don't have anything.
They have said they will turn up to all test sessions, but the new car won't be ready till the Bahrain test, what's wrong with that?

Most teams don't use the previous years car for the first three sessions. They claim they are making the new F111 by themselves which is a tad hard to beleive.

Link

McLaren's isn't ready for the first test either...

That's McLaren though.

They left FOTA because they didn't feel it was in their interests, only in the larger teams' (which I don't have trouble believing).

I've heard both sides, I'm going with the FOTA side.


Link

Considering Hispania turned up to every race last year, I wouldn't say they are a team in trouble. Its easy to predict them struggling, its always a strugglen to survive as a small team, but they appear to be surviving so far, after all, they are run by the man with a talent for keeping such teams alive.

So HRT can hope to change ownership countless times until it finally becomes a mid-field car?

HRT are in no more a mess right now than Minardi or Arrows ever was. Is it so easy to forget USF1?

And how are Minardi and Arrows doing now?

I don't even consider USF1 a team for obvious reasons.

 

[F1 fan]

And how are Minardi and Arrows doing now?

Well obviously Minardi was sold to paul stoddart early in '01 gave debut's to Alonso and webber, was sold to Dietrich Mateschitz late in 05 became Toro Rosso and did pretty well in '08 culminating in Sebastian Vettel winning at monza...

And Arrows may have survived, although the lawsuits with Verstappen, diniz and frentzen can't have helped. I think I even read somewhere that they submitted an application to the fia for the 2003 season but it was turned down.

But you knew all that...

The point is, between the two teams they completed in over 700 grand prix they may not still be here now, (although there is still the team in Faenza) but emulating some of their achievements may seem an appealing prospect to hrt. And remember that before 2010, force india had only had 2 points finishes.

 

[Alex.]

v.

Meanwhile, Virgin offered Nico Hulkenberg a drive, which he turned down. Hulkenberg might be talented, but he's making a damn fool of himself. He wants to race, but he keeps turning down offers.

It was probably for an extortionate sponsorship package deal.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It was probably for an extortionate sponsorship package deal.

Actually, Virgin are quite well-off for sponsorship. I think that's the way Branson is running things: Manor Motorsport concentrate on running the team, and Virgin find them new sponsors. That's how they found Marussia - they wanted a relatively young, up and coming sports car manufacturer that they could build a relationship with. New drivers do need to find a bit of sponsorship, but more fool Nico Hulkenberg for saying "I won't bring any sponsors to a team" when more than half the grid is doing is. And I'm not talking about the likes of d'Ambrosio and Perez here; drivers as far up the grid as Adrian Sutil bring sponsors to the team. For a rookie to expect a drive while insisting he won't bring sponsors to a team after a hit-and-miss year (sure, he got that pole in Brazil, but he made some bloody stupid mistakes, like in Canada) just reeks of arrogance.

 

[Alex.]

Fernando Alonso effectively brings Santander too.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Alonso is a pay driver. Ferrari wanted him, and Santander wanted to go wherever he went, so they were able to make it happen. The point is that a lot of drivers bring sponors to a team, even when they are under no obligation to. Vitaly Petrov's manager has said Petrov has absolutely no financial obligation to Lotus Renault, but he still brings sponors. PDVSA's contract with Williams is for the next five years, and is not dependent upon Pastor Maldonado staying with them. Adrian Sutil has backing from German electronics firm Medion. So for Hulkenberg to assume he is good enough to get a drive on merit alone when costs are so high is naive at best and arrogant at worst. And neither is a trait you want in a driver.

 

[Ardius]

Most teams don't use the previous years car for the first three sessions. They claim they are making the new F111 by themselves which is a tad hard to beleive.

Link

That's McLaren though.

I've heard both sides, I'm going with the FOTA side.


Link

So HRT can hope to change ownership countless times until it finally becomes a mid-field car?

And how are Minardi and Arrows doing now?

I don't even consider USF1 a team for obvious reasons.

In the past, Toro Rosso have used last year's car until half way into the season! And before that, Minardi used to re-use their old chassis quite a lot.
Surely if the team were in trouble, they wouldn't be spending money going to tests with the old car and simply save the money for the final test? Its certainly more expensive to travel to those test sessions than it is for FOTA membership.
I don't see why it should be used as a criticism of HRT but not of McLaren. Sure, you know that McLaren have the resources and HRT's are relatively unknown, but it doesn't prove anything about their ability to develop a new car. As I said, it rather suggests a better situation than what you are suggesting.

The fact is Jordan survived, and that Kolles has a track record of keeping that team going even despite numerous owner changes.
As for Minardi and Arrows - I was using them as example of small teams that always struggled but were respected somewhat. HRT isn't given enough respect, partly because of their driver swaps taking out popular drivers and partly because people seem to enjoy criticising them.
What HRT have achieved so far is about average for a new team in F1, I don't get why people think they have failed or are failing.

Its written in several places that Team Lotus' entry was quite amazing because it was done in 6 months from nothing. Consider that Hispania's team went from nothing to a full race team in a month or so before the start of the season and they didn't make that many mistakes. We didn't see wheels and wings falling off or terrible pit stops (apart from Yamamoto at Monza), for the most part, they were quite professional and Kolles and his team most certainly should be commended for doing such a decent job with so little setup time.
Even their driver choices weren't too bad, yes, they were there with money, but they weren't Yuji Ide either.

Actually, Virgin are quite well-off for sponsorship. I think that's the way Branson is running things: Manor Motorsport concentrate on running the team, and Virgin find them new sponsors. That's how they found Marussia - they wanted a relatively young, up and coming sports car manufacturer that they could build a relationship with. New drivers do need to find a bit of sponsorship, but more fool Nico Hulkenberg for saying "I won't bring any sponsors to a team" when more than half the grid is doing is. And I'm not talking about the likes of d'Ambrosio and Perez here; drivers as far up the grid as Adrian Sutil bring sponsors to the team. For a rookie to expect a drive while insisting he won't bring sponsors to a team after a hit-and-miss year (sure, he got that pole in Brazil, but he made some bloody stupid mistakes, like in Canada) just reeks of arrogance.

I don't think its particularly arrogant of Hulk to feel he shouldn't need to bring money. Perhaps its a little ignorant of the unfortunate reality, but he did show enough promise to earn a paid race drive in 2011. Put it this way - if Williams had the money, they would have kept him. So it wasn't entirely un-realistic for him to expect a paid race drive, there were some available at the time (Renault, Force India, Virgin). He could have easily been at Force India if Di Resta wasn't already there. Currently he's sitting happy probably knowing he's got a future race drive.

Yes, Virgin weren't asking for money. Weber said as much when asked, he referred to their offer being "very pleasing", which suggests to me it was quite lucrative.

The fact Hulkenburg got two paid offers alone should say something about how teams view him. His rookie season was good, way better than Petrovs.

Also, what stupid mistake did Hulkenburg make at Canada? I do remember Petrov losing control yet again.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He could have easily been at Force India if Di Resta wasn't already there.

I'm not so sure. Willi Weber said one of the reasons why they turned down the Virgin seat was because Timo Glock is German, and for Hulkenberg to be beaten by a fellow German would be very damaging for his career. I think Weber wants to create an image for Hulkenberg, one that involves him eventually racing alongside Schumacher so that he's the heir apparent once Schumacher retires for good. The problem is Nico Rosberg.

Currently he's sitting happy probably knowing he's got a future race drive.

Where, exactly, would he go? In order to get a seat at Force India, di Resta or Sutil need to go. They can only move to another team if a vacancy is made available, or they can drop out if they prove to be useless. Like I said, I think Weber wants Hulkenberg to wind up at Mercedes at some point in the future, but the problem is that Mercedes clearly have their eye on Paul di Resta. If Schumacher or Rosberg leave at the end of 2011, Mercedes will be more likely to take di Resta at the end of 2012 by sheer virtue of the fact that he'll have raced in 2011. And even if di Resta disappoints, there are plenty of other drivers on the grid who will have been racing in 2011 who would automatically have a better chance at the seat than Hulkenberg.

 

[Ardius]

Hulkenburg will almost certainly have signed a contract at Force India which makes him a race driver in 2012. Just like Liuzzi and Di Resta before him.
Sutil wants out to another team, and he isn't a much better driver than Hulk anyway.
Otherwise, I'm sure Mercedes or someone would have been happy for him to be test driver. I don't think Weber is stupid though, he would have put Hulk in the Virgin for the race seat if they could only find test drive deals, hence I believe they must have agreed a contract which guarantees him a future race drive.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Mercedes are talking about getting a test driver in. I find it very interesting that they deny talking to Hulkenberg at all.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Hispania confirm Tonio Liuzzi as their second driver for 2011, finally sealing up the twenty-fourth and last available race seat.

 

[PeterJB]

Not Liuzzi! HE'S SO BORING! If he is as slow as he was in the Force India then he'll be diabolically bad in the HRT!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Who would have been a better choice, then?

Put simply, if Hispania wanted to be taken seriously, then they needed Liuzzi rather than a pay driver. While he was abysmal for most of 2010, in some races - like Korea - he had that extra something. Of all the candidates for the second seat, Liuzzi had the most recent experience racing. It was pretty much a slam dunk that he'd get the seat.