2011 Rule Changes

prisonermonkeys

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This is something that came up in the Lotus thread. Rather than continue into the depths of off-topicness, I thought it might be time to spin it off into its own discussion, especially since it's getting to that time of the year when the rules for next season are going to be finalised. Details are a little scarce, but this weekend has seen some new suggestions emerge.

Firstly, Mike Gascoyne has alluded to a few major changes. As we all know, F-ducts and double diffusers have been banned, but FOTA have apparently been talking about scrapping flow aids under the chassis to further the effect and abandoning the vertical pod wings mounted forward of the air intake pods. Smaller, more technical changes that have ben discussed include a change in the width of the front wing to make it smaller, and greater restrictions designed to limit development of the rear wing.

And, of course, the teams have been kicking around the idea of the return of KERS, albeit with greater freedoms allowed in its deployment (ie more horsepower for longer) and making it mandatory, along with the possibility of teams developing their own system or purchasing it from another team (like engines) or a third supplier. Ferrari, meanwhile, are pushing an agenda of running three-car teams though FOTA apaprently haven't discussed it for a while and Martin Whitmarsh has said McLaren feel it's only workable if the number of teams drops again (but the whole thing is just a attempt by Ferrari to grab power and a better end-of-season standing).

The biggest change that has come up is the talk of abandoning adjustable front wings in favour of an adjustable rear wing. Reports claim that drivers will be able to alter the angle of the win by up to fifty millimetres in order to increase straight-line speed. However, like KERS, there will be conditions attached - drivers can only use it when they are pursuing another car. From what I understand, this does not mean they can use it whenever they feel like it; rather, they will have to get themselves within range of another car before they can use it. It's intended to support overtaking rather than simply be a replacement for driver skill.

So, what are your thoughts? Is the adjustable rear wing concept a good one, and how will it affect the reintroduction of KERS? Is the possibility of three cars a realistic one, and how could it be implemented? Are changes to the tyre regulations needed, and if so, what would be a better solution? Are there any other ideas for rule changes?

Personally, I think three cars could be workable, but only under certain conditions - there is simply no way circuits like Monaco could suport forty cars in a race. Rather, I'd open up four extra grid places (in addition to the two for new thirteenth team). Teams would nominate a driver to run an optional third car on Fridays, with the fastest four of these extra drivers being promoted to qualifying and the race. However, to stop the likes of Ferrari and McLaren an Red Bull from running a third car in very race to secure manufacturers' points, the teams would only be able to run their third car in a set number of events - and if they run on a Friday, but do not qualify for the rest of the weekend, it counts as one of their events. Ten at the maximum, maybe. This way, everyone gets a go with a third car, and the latter half of the season would become an interesting fight as teams and drivers scrap for points by runing third drivers. Of course, you'd have to be careful to prevent teams running a third driver simply for the sake of interfering with the race results by holding other drivers up.

As for the tyres, I'd change the both-compounds-in-the-race rule to both-compounds-over-the-weekend with the provision that all drivers start on the same compound (not the same set) as they qualified on. The effect of this would be that drivers could do the early qualifying phases on soft tyres and then set their final time on a set of hards. They'd then start the race on a set of tyres that could last the entire race; on the other hand, they could qualify an start on the softs, but would need a mid-race change to the hards. The rule would be dependent on the soft tyres giving drivers enough of an advantage to make a pitstop viable.

And I'd ban blue flags. Formula 1 drivers are supposed to be the best in the world. If they can't get past a backmarker without the backmarker being obligated to move over, they probably shouldn't be in the sport.
 
F-duct and diffuser bans... not in favor... as they're intelligent solutions to the problems posed by the rules... but such things will happen.

KERS: Pro. Having it available as much as possible brings up lots of strategic considerations. We may see teams running bigger capacitors/energy storage packs, teams running bigger/smaller KERS systems... teams using it only for overtaking or defense, teams using it to save fuel... should be a good mix-up.

An "overtaking" rear wing rule, definitely not. If KERS becomes mandatory, limiting rear wing use doesn't make sense...
 
The bans on the diffuser and f-duct I don't mind. The ban on the double diffuser should clean up the air a bit. But I don't care for the adjustable rear wing and especially the limitation of usage. And the front wing...I thought they widened it to make passing easier. If they do a decent job of limiting the rear downforce then the front shouldn't matter that much.

And I'm all in for KERS.
 
F-duct and diffuser bans... not in favor... as they're intelligent solutions to the problems posed by the rules... but such things will happen.
But they also make overtaking harder and produce more procesional races.

An "overtaking" rear wing rule, definitely not. If KERS becomes mandatory, limiting rear wing use doesn't make sense...
It's likely to be KERS or adjustable wings, not both.

And the front wing...I thought they widened it to make passing easier. If they do a decent job of limiting the rear downforce then the front shouldn't matter that much.
It seems that when they made the front wing wider, they made it too wide. If you've seen some of the contraptions teams have been using - Renault in particular - it's easy to understand how they might have the opposite effect to what was intended.
 
But they also make overtaking harder and produce more procesional races.

With less front downforce, the advantages of these items aren't as great. If the front end won't stick, an abundance of rear-end grip from a double-diffuser isn't all that... and with KERS back, the extra straightline speed from an F-Duct won't matter as much.

The F-Duct isn't a magic bullet... and it'll perform the same function as an adjustable rear wing.

It's likely to be KERS or adjustable wings, not both.

In that case, I'd vote for KERS. But I still disagree with only giving a boost to the guy following. I suppose they'd like F1 to be like NASCAR or endurance cycling? Let another guy do all the work then overtake him on the home stretch? Shall we give them purple shells to chuck at each other, too? :lol:
 
But I still disagree with only giving a boost to the guy following.
Why, exactly? It's not like the driver gets a boost as soon as he's trailing another car - he needs to find that sweet spot where the rear wing is activated. He has to be within range first. And it doesn't guarantee a pass, either, because the guy he's chasing can easily move over and take a defensive line. The system is intended to make overtaking easier without replacing the need for driver skill because we all know that the teams will fight to keep as much aerodynamic grip as possible. It might not be a perfect solution, but it is a solution.

I suppose they'd like F1 to be like NASCAR or endurance cycling? Let another guy do all the work then overtake him on the home stretch? Shall we give them purple shells to chuck at each other, too? :lol:
Again, no guarantees. A driver may decide until the final corner of the final lap to make his move, but that doesn't mean he's going to take the place. It's likely the system will have an automated reset built into it, so as soon as the driver has pulled alongside, the wing will default to its original setting. Nor is there anything to stop the defending driver from taking the place back. If he slots in behind the driver who just passed him, he gets to have a go with the rear wing.

See, this is the probem with the fans in general. Everyone whinges and complains that there's not enough overtaking (without ever actually saying how much more overtaking they'd like to see and expecting the Powers That Be to work it out on their own), but as soon as the teams come up with a solution that directly addresses the problem, everyone whingesand complains that it's not good enough. If adjustable rear wings that are only available to a pursuing driver aren't good enough, what would be?
 
KERS.

Allow unlimited use of KERS. Let one driver use it up defending, then the driver behind uses his own boost and passes.

I'm not of the opinion that overtaking is lacking. And even then, I wouldn't cure the lack of overtaking by giving an unfair advantage to the driver behind.

If they really want overtaking? Ban the rear wing. Completely. The only active dowforce on the car will be the front wing and the rear diffuser. The shapes of the cars can be regulated so that there is no aerodynamic penalty for running behind another car in a turn... this, and the lack of rear downforce, would allow for more creative overtaking lines.

Make the cars narrower. Gives you more track to work with during racing (literally). Forces teams to work within a tighter envelope, potentially resulting in a higher center of gravity and less stability through corners.

Look at MotoGP. Extremely fast machines, no downforce. Tons of overtaking, all the time.
 
It seems that when they made the front wing wider, they made it too wide. If you've seen some of the contraptions teams have been using - Renault in particular - it's easy to understand how they might have the opposite effect to what was intended.

They should just allow the teams to make them narrower if they want to. I think a good idea would be to allow free development on the front and restrict the downforce on the rear. Though like niky I'm not complaining about the overtaking, unless it's at Valencia. :sly:
 
Ferrari have confrmed they will be using KERS next year. However, it ill not be mandatory and there wil be no powr increase. The minimum weght of the cars will increase to 640kg in order to compensate for the weight of the unit.
 
Are you kidding me? EVEN HEAVIER? :mad:

How about for once they allow a rule for a tad more engine power, a tad less weight, a tad less restrictions. Really annoys me, at some tracks now the Puegeot 908 isn't far behind at all. Not to mention GP2. Pretty much every rule since 2004 has been to slow the cars down. (With the exclusion of slicks, which was to compensate for the other rules slowing down the cars dramatically)
 
Are you kidding me? EVEN HEAVIER? :mad:
No, I'm not. KERS is reportedly optional, so any team that decides not to run it will have a twenty kilogram advantage. The teams are trying to make KERS as attractive as possibl so that more people use it.
 
Teams not running KERS should be forced to carry a five-gallon goldfish bowl on top of the air intake. Open-topped. Full of fish.

You lose all your fish by the end of the race, you get a twenty-five second penalyty.
 
I want to see turbochargers return. I want to see that rule about fuel loads dropped, pit stops brought some excitement to Formula 1. I know they still happen, but remember Canada? Loads of pit stops which kept the top 5 within seconds of each other.
 
I want to see turbochargers return.
It's believed that turbos will be a part of the FIA's engine regulations for 2013 onwards.

I want to see that rule about fuel loads dropped, pit stops brought some excitement to Formula 1. I know they still happen, but remember Canada? Loads of pit stops which kept the top 5 within seconds of each other.
All refuelling did was create a series of time trials from stop to stop. Drivers now have to constantly adapt their styles depending on fuel load, tyre wear and the like. Refuelling should have been banned the day Brabham came up with the idea.
 
I know they still happen, but remember Canada? Loads of pit stops which kept the top 5 within seconds of each other.

That was tyre wear that made that race interesting, not pit stops. The race began with no one knowing what the best strategy would be, refuelling wouldn't help this happen, in fact it would have been slightly easier with refuelling because the fuel loads would have been lower and tyre wear less significant. (though it would have still been a good race)

I agree with the many calls for more "on the edge" tyres, unfortunately without a tyre war its unlikely because no tyre manufacturer wants the bad publicity from tyres not lasting, drivers complaining, etc.

I think this year has proven we don't need refuelling to still be interesting but we still need to look at improving the aero and hopefully the ban on double diffusers does the job. Other than that, the KERS idea and turbo engines would be good changes and I would like to see the engine freeze removed too, the engine manufacturers already spend money developing the engines anyway. It would be more interesting if we brought back the large variety of engines like before with Yamaha, Judd, Hart, Ilmor, Honda, etc. Its also the best way for manufacturers to compete, as it doesn't matter too much then if they choose to leave the sport and it costs them far less.
 
If they want to take things away from the cars at least ban the god ugly shark fins. Everybody wins if they do.
 
If they want to take things away from the cars at least ban the god ugly shark fins. Everybody wins if they do.
Not the sponsors. Shark fins give more space for sponsor logos. But I'm kind of hoping the ban on F-ducts is a way to drop them.
 
WMSC meeting in Geneva today have confirmed the following:

- Pirelli will supply tyres for the 2011 season.
- Adjustable rear wings will be in. They will only be available when a driver is within one second of a car in front, and will be deactivated as soon as the driver touches the brakes after activating the system.
- The 107% rule will return (too late for Luca to be happy about it).
- Rules relating to the Schumacher Monaco incident have been cleared up (no overtaking confirmed with crystal clarity).
- Cars must be driven back to the pits under their own power and within a maximum time established by the FIA (to prevent deliberate repeats of Hamilton in Montreal).
- Minimum weight has been increased from 620kg to 640kg to encourage teams to use KERS.
- Drivers are told "Be good and don't **** up on public roads".

Also, oddly, Renault's Chinese test driver, Ho-Pin Tung has been granted a four-race probationary superlicence.
 
I've decided to place my trust in whatever rules are outlined from now on. In 2009 I was absolutely outraged with some of the decisions being made for 2010 rules, but wouldnt you know it.. 2010 has been as amazing season! Hopefully, even though they may not look better on paper, next years rules will yield even better racing.
 
Adjustable rear wings are only expected to yield up to 15km/h extra. They're not a replacement for driver skill.
 
Also, oddly, Renault's Chinese test driver, Ho-Pin Tung has been granted a four-race probationary superlicence.

Yeah, I found that strange too... Does the 4 race period start from valencia or will it start if he gets a race seat?

Hope they're not losing patience with petrov.
 
Adjustable rear wings are only expected to yield up to 15km/h extra. They're not a replacement for driver skill.

In F1 15km/h is a huge difference. KERS is one thing, but I don't really like "artificial passing" like this.
 
Yeah, I found that strange too... Does the 4 race period start from valencia or will it start if he gets a race seat?
The four-race period starts from the first time he leaves pit lane in free practice. Theoretically, Tung's first race could be the 2012 US Grand Prix, provided that he maintains the minimum required to keep his licence.

Hope they're not losing patience with petrov.
Neither. They've given no indication that they're unhppy with him, though (don't mention this over at Autosport, there's a few people there claiming that because Renault are not saying they are unhappy with him, they might be saying it behind closed doors, and therefore they are unhappy with him ... but then the people saying this were adamant Villeneuve would get the seat at the beginning of the year and can't handle it when they've been proven wrong; they just tried to tell me that Villeeneuve locking a wheel in NASCAR and overtaking a guy who ran off the circuit counted as quality passing on par with the Arnoux-Villeneuve grudge match from thirty years ago ... it's a very low-quality forum, Autosport). I'm willing to bet that if Renault had anything to do with Tung's licence, it was because they wanted a testing and reserve driver in case Kubica or Petrov fall over in the shower. Up until now, none of their reserve drivers have had a superlicence, leaving the team one man short if Kubica or Petrov get KO'ed.

More to the point, Tung's licence has come about under similar circumstances to Kimi Raikkonen's. I can't be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that a licence issued this way requires the full WMSC to vote on the matter. Since they don't meet too often and Tung fulfilled the minimum requirements, they took the opportunity to issue one.
 
Adjustable rear wings are only expected to yield up to 15km/h extra. They're not a replacement for driver skill.

And yet KERS can be used by both defender and offender :D ...and it gives a similar straightline speed boost.

Ah... the Hamilton rules done the right way. If the current rules don't cover it, don't retroactively apply new ones arbitrarily. Create new ones and enforce them from that point on. 👍
 
And yet KERS can be used by both defender and offender :D ...and it gives a similar straightline speed boost.
Ah, but KERS plus an adjustable rear wing is going to offer even more of a boost. And KERS isn't going to be unlimited, either. A defending driver could well be out of juice before the attacker catches up with him ...
 
I just hope the rear wing doesn't lead to cars just passing back and forth down straights and the result being down to luck.
 
Teams not running KERS should be forced to carry a five-gallon goldfish bowl on top of the air intake. Open-topped. Full of fish.

You lose all your fish by the end of the race, you get a twenty-five second penalyty.

:lol:

I've also heard that they're running 18 inch rims (HUGE RIMS!) next year, up from 13 inches(small rims), at least that is what Pirrelli (can't remember how to spell that) would want.
 
:lol:

I've also heard that they're running 18 inch rims (HUGE RIMS!) next year, up from 13 inches(small rims), at least that is what Pirrelli (can't remember how to spell that) would want.

That is not happening for at least another 2 years as the teams cannot possibly design cars around that size in the current time frame. They have no data to use on how those size wheels and tyres would handle.
Pirelli didn't want it so much, I believe it was Michelin's main want - though it does benefit Pirelli too. Pirelli simply provided a cheaper and more adaptable option.
They will be 13 inch wheels till 2013 at least.
 
This active aero seems silly. Give it to everyone, not just the guy behind.

I like KERS as an idea, because as far as I am aware, you can't modulate the power delivery like you can a throttle, this can lead to some drivers getting it wrong and spinning the wheels a little. I think active aero plus KERS would work really well, if they didn't add those silly extra clauses to the active aero rule.
 
I just hope the rear wing doesn't lead to cars just passing back and forth down straights and the result being down to luck.
I don't think it will. Despite the negative reception, I think it will be very difficult to say with any certainty which passes were a result of the rear wing.
 
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