2011 Rule Changes

niky
In MotoGP, the lack of aero-grip and the tiny contact patches (as well as the insane fear of death) mean that drivers can take literally dozens of lines through the same corner. In some races, position changes and lead changes can sometimes occur at every other corner in the later stages of a race.
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Isn't that more the result of the vehicles being more narrow? If F1 cars were as narrow the whole wake thing wouldn't be as big of an issue; just switch your line a little for the corner.

I have a great idea for the next season: make the rear wings higher and narrower. :crazy:
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
Isn't that more the result of the vehicles being more narrow? If F1 cars were as narrow the whole wake thing wouldn't be as big of an issue; just switch your line a little for the corner.

I have a great idea for the next season: make the rear wings higher and narrower. :crazy:
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Yes... this is part of it (interestingly... someone suggested that the cars be made narrower. Though I don't recall if this is for F1 or Indy)... but part of it is that without front end downforce, it's very easy for one driver to "wash" wide and another to stick their nose in if they've been better on the tires. The lack of rear downforce (and the tiny rear contact patch) means that throttle application in the corner has to be very precise in order not to upset the balance... so the driver with better throttle control can make the move stick.

Rossi, for one, was often very good at preserving tires then performing overtakes later in the race.... Ducati, on the other hand, developed a reputation for having better corner exit due to the nature of its power delivery.
 
Ardius
Now we have double diffusers banned, single diffusers produce less wake so therefore the problem should be solved next year anyway.
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I think FOTA are trying to find a solution that allows for as many possibilities for overtaking, anyway. We already know that the designers are going to be trawling the rulebook looking for loopholes, and by the end of 2011, it's likely that single-level diffusers will be producing more and more downforce. I seem to recall reading somewhere that while the 2009-spec cars took away a lot of the downforce from the 2008 models, the teams were expected to be producing more than they had in 2008 by the middle of 2010.
 
niky
Moveable wings are just a bad idea. The F-duct works because the activation mode is a simple physical thing, and you have to activate it to lose downforce. A moveable rear wing requires hydraulics... which can fail... and if you have a brain fart, having the wing in overtake mode midcorner means a nasty spin. (If you mess up with the moveable front wing now... you just get understeer... which is safer... especially since the cars have much more front-end grip right now than rear end grip).
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According to Ross Brawn, the adjustable rear wings will be designed so that if they do fail, the wings will move back into their original position.
 
Okay, so in my usual grab for motorsports-related news, I found this over at Autosport. The DTM series is organising a Race of Champions-like knockout event as an exhibition race next season, and it got me wondering in my usual insane-thought mode: could Formula 1 do something similar? The idea is simple: two cars line up on the grid in opposing lanes and race for three laps before pitting and racing for another three. The fastest driver advances to the next round, whilst his opponent is knocked out.

I think it would be an interesting concept, kind of as an end-of-season special event, with the top sixteen drivers in the final standings qualifying for the tournament. They'd race for five laps, pit and race for another five. Friday would be a practice day, Saturday would be reserved for qualifying, and Sunday would be the tournament. You could also have a teams knock-out event with two cars from one team lining up in one lane, and the drivers having to complete ten laps with both stopping at some point. The first team to get both cars over the line wins.

The biggest problem, I think, would be the circuit itself. It would have to be of a decent length and width so that the races would be long enough. But not too long, because then you'd get a problem where there was no tension: the drivers need to be on top of one another.
 
Perhaps a knockout contest-all start right next to each other in two or three rows. Three laps of pure racing, and from then on, the last placed car is eliminated.

There would need to be some system in place for the plain slower cars, but it would be funny to watch-if people were last, they would be making crazy moves on others-and then, later in the race, he who preserved his tyres would have a huge crack at winning.
 
If we are trying to save costs and cut down carbon emissions, you are not going to get non-championship races.
Personally I don't see the point, its providing to a market that doesn't really exist - who is asking for yet more races they can't afford to go to and whats more don't affect the championship?

I'd like to see F1 drivers being more active in more local and cheaper categories, like the days of Jim Clark and Graham Hill throwing around Cortinas. But this is simply something drivers can do outside of F1 rather than F1 changing to provide it. If Lewis came in to guest drive in the BTCC or British GT or something, it would certainly help pull in a bit more crowd and benefit everyone. The fans would be able to get closer to Lewis than at a Grand Prix and the BTCC/GT/whatever series would gain a few new fans.
 
Ardius
If we are trying to save costs and cut down carbon emissions, you are not going to get non-championship races.
Personally I don't see the point, its providing to a market that doesn't really exist - who is asking for yet more races they can't afford to go to and whats more don't affect the championship?
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Do it as an exhibition race in the first year. If it's well-received, then consider adding it to the championship from then on. If not, drop it, and it's a case of no harm, no foul.
 
Its still all too easy to drop it for the sake of saving emissions, if it doesn't affect the championship, whats the point? I know its for a bit of fun and all that, but I can't see the sport spending the money.
 
The only way I can see it working - is if it's done either the first race (and worth points)

Or done at every race before the feature race - and worth points (like 5 for the winner or something)

Or - as an alternative to qualifying!!

Ardius
I'd like to see F1 drivers being more active in more local and cheaper categories, like the days of Jim Clark and Graham Hill throwing around Cortinas. But this is simply something drivers can do outside of F1 rather than F1 changing to provide it. If Lewis came in to guest drive in the BTCC or British GT or something, it would certainly help pull in a bit more crowd and benefit everyone. The fans would be able to get closer to Lewis than at a Grand Prix and the BTCC/GT/whatever series would gain a few new fans.
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Quite a few of the drivers are/were at Goodwood this weekend apparently. (Lewis and Webber for definite)

C.
 
yeti
Quite a few of the drivers are/were at Goodwood this weekend apparently. (Lewis and Webber for definite)

C.
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Goodwood doesn't count, its not really a racing event anymore, more just a celebrity gathering. Its a good example of the effect of featuring prominent drivers though - if F1 drivers are involved the crowds get pulled in. I dare say a few people started watching BTCC and CART a bit more because of Nigel Mansell. Now imagine if current drivers were more involved?
And by the way, Goodwood featured (as far as I know):
Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg, Senna, Chandhok, Kovalainen, Trulli, Gene along with the usual crowd of ex-drivers like Stirling Moss.
 
Ardius
Goodwood doesn't count, its not really a racing event anymore, more just a celebrity gathering. Its a good example of the effect of featuring prominent drivers though - if F1 drivers are involved the crowds get pulled in. I dare say a few people started watching BTCC and CART a bit more because of Nigel Mansell. Now imagine if current drivers were more involved?
And by the way, Goodwood featured (as far as I know):
Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg, Senna, Chandhok, Kovalainen, Trulli, Gene along with the usual crowd of ex-drivers like Stirling Moss.
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Surprised Sir Stirling made it - has he fully recovered from his fall yet?

C.
 
yeti
Surprised Sir Stirling made it - has he fully recovered from his fall yet?

C.
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Sorry I didn't answer this straight away.
Stirling is doing well, he's still recovering because I don't think he can drive again yet but he's ok now it seems.

yeti
Apparently - there is going to be a forced weight distribution this year...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A71245569

C.
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See, its rules like this that make me worry FOTA are going the wrong direction. They bring in rules like this that stop the variety in the cars and unpredictability and then bring in regulations like the rear wing adjustment that potentially create artificial racing.
After hearing them defend themselves at the fan forum in London last week, I have faith that they are doing the right thing but I still worry whether this is really the direction we want to see F1 go. Its quickly becoming oh so similar to a spec Formula with push to pass buttons.

I was in favour of FOTA gaining some power because the teams (and drivers) needed a say on the regulations rather than the FIA (or rather, Max) arbitrarily deciding how things go. But now FOTA are going a bit too far possibly - the teams want boring races themselves because it makes their lives easier. There's a fine line where the competitors are making their own rules, I hope all involved are proven right and if not, I hope Whitmarsh stands by what he said about "we need to start accepting when we get things wrong and take a step back, if we get it wrong, then we will step back".
 
The forced weight distribution was because of the late tire supplier agreement. Or so they (they meaning Brawn, Whitmarsh and Horner) said on the BBC Canada Grand Prix pre-race show.
 
Yeah. Apparently Bridgestone made some changes to their tyres late in the pre-season that forced the teams to undertake some expensive re-workings of their cars' innards. If they and Pirelli both know the weight distribution going into the season, it removes the possibility of that happening and stops people from lucking out and getting it right.
 
It should be removed or relaxed for the 2012 season, as Pirelli will have had experience and more time to develop (with collaboration with the teams) the subsequent years tire.
 
If the FIA want to slow cars and make driving them harder, take away the shark fins. They'd be doing everybody a favour because we wouldn't have to look at their uglyness anymore.
 
Shark fins don't really offer that much of and advantage. All they really do is direct air onto the rear wing, and they've been usurped by the F-duct system. Hopefully the adjustable rear wings will result in a de facto ban on shark fins - at the very least, the shark fins that are anchored to the rear wing - because they would interfere with the adjustable flap. But I doubt the teams would give them up too quickly, because shark fins offer extra sponsor space.
 
Why does F1 need to resort to these stupid wings anyway. It's been fantastic this year and without double diffusers it will be even better.
15km/h is a massive advantage that kills off the excitement of the overtake because you are fairly sure it is going to happen. The people that run F1 must be the stupidest clever people in the world.
 

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