2012 Chinese Grand Prix

[mister dog]

Perez in the Sauber Ferrari was clocked at 325 km/h at one point in the speedtrap. O_O

After slipstreaming?
Actually that would have been the normal speed i expected there, that's why i was surprised by the low topspeeds.

 

[joetoml1n]

I never hide the fact that I despise the man. Yet again, it was another shining example of what a dirty driver he is. There was no need for him to do it. He just squeezed Raikkonen out. Had Raikkonen not been paying attention, it could have resulted in a little pitlane shunt. So how can you defend it as being an okay move? Why should Lewis have done it? Why shouldn't he just have kept straight.

You're just nit picking to be honest. Trying to find a reason, so you can justify to yourself why you hate him. It was never dangrous or illegal, so I cant see the problem.. He didn't force Raikkonen to change direction, he was just asserting his authority to that position, sort of making sure Kimi didn't trying anything up the inside as they cam off the limiter into T1. Same as taking up the inside line or other defensive driving into any corner. Just becuase you don't like the guy, doesn't mean you have to find or make a problem out of everything he does.

 

[SilverArrow]

I still don't see the point of him squeezing Raikkonen out like that. I wish there was a video of it to settle this.



Did I ever say it was? That was some response there by the way.

Surely if he was squeezed as you claimed, lotus would have complained to Charlie Whiting, even raikkonen didn't see an issue with it, so I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Northstar]

Why does it seem like the post race arguments in the GP thread are almost more exciting than the race?

Anyways, it was a good race, I'm happy the "normal" start time races are starting now, the next hard race for me will be India which is at 4:30AM.

 

[joetoml1n]

Actually that would have been the normal speed i expected there, that's why i was surprised by the low topspeeds.

I too was surprised at the "slow" speeds they we're all arriving at the corner with. It's like they all decided to drop 7th gear a bit, thinking they wouldn't be doing much battling down the back straight, or added extra wing (or a number of other reason) Then when it came to it, they were forming trains instead of passing easily.
This to me, was one of the better examples of DRS for a long time, it didn't easily allow cars to cruise past every time. As a result we saw lots of packs of cars fighting all over the track, all the time.

 

[gorsad]

So.... why is Vettel doing so badly? Is it the car or is he just not good anymore!? What happened!?

Well, with EBDs no longer around, he seems to have lost confidence in the car.

I remember reading on the BBC somewhere that before they made the aggressive engine maps, cars would lose downforce in the middle of the corner.

Webber seemed to cope with this better than Vettel, so the same might be happening now.

 

[OK8]

-Perez pushing Kobayashi onto the grass.

Yeah that was a weird one wasn't it. Quite aggressive from Perez against his teammate. I wouldn't want to be a part of the discussion they had after the race.

 

[Prince.M5]

I think it can be seen that Vettel is now struggling with the car and he seems to not liking things going on with the car. The loss of EBD definitely hurt him a lot after being used to the extra downforce but since they all will lose it this year, it has become a much more level playing grid.

As seen here in China, he struggled to control the back of the car without sliding it. He's still uncomfortable in the car but I'd predict him to get used to it and get back on pace somewhere when we get to the European rounds.

 

[Crushed]

I wouldn't say he's driving badly, the car isn't as dominant as last year and he struggled to overtake because the car is the third slowest car in the speed traps. He did well to get up to fifth after the bad start.

Oh well hes not doing badly at all but for him he is!

 

[tribolik]

I dont understand people saying that Vettel didnt drive well? he drove one hell of a race (and I dont even like him) and a very good strategy... only downside was the bad start.

 

[DaxCobra]

F1 Fan, Hamilton didn't move at all. He came out of his box, and pointed his car straight on the apron and held his line. Raikkonen was released and drove along side him. No squeezing.

 

[DrivingForce]

F1 Fan, Hamilton didn't move at all. He came out of his box, and pointed his car straight on the apron and held his line. Raikkonen was released and drove along side him. No squeezing.

Totally agree with you their Dax.

 

[tribolik]

F1 Fan, Hamilton didn't move at all. He came out of his box, and pointed his car straight on the apron and held his line. Raikkonen was released and drove along side him. No squeezing.

He did move (as you can see in the video - he moves right to the line and then moves back left again) but he was just making sure that Raikonen didnt came out of the pits along side and had the inside line to the next corner.
No incident to report.

 

[Prince.M5]

Let's just put the Hamilton-Raikkonen pitlane discussion to an end owkey? I am on the same boat as DaxCobra and I didn't see Hamilton squeezing Raikkonen at all. At the end of the day, Raikkonen cannot overtake in the pit and must back off and tuck in behind Hamilton on the exit.

The drivers didn't complain anyway so whether you hate Raikkonen or Hamilton, I really am not seeing this to be worth of a debate honestly.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I... I don't even... There was no squeezing. Both cars remained fully on the apron at all times.

The only thing you can - and should - have a go at Lewis for this race was the double-move on the pit straight after passing Vettel.

Vettel also double moved when Hamilton passed him. That gave Vettel the optimum line out to have a go back at Hamilton which is why he double moved.

If you punish one of them then I'd say you should punish both of them.

 

[homeforsummer]

I dont understand people saying that Vettel didnt drive well? he drove one hell of a race

I think I saw him actually pass someone once - admittedly it was a good move (seem to recall it was the move that Alonso and someone else tried but ran wide onto the marbles, where Vettel cut back in just in time), but the sole reason he skipped half a dozen places was because everyone else pitted. That's not "one hell of a race" by any stretch of the imagination, that's a strategy call which hurt him in the last few laps anyway.

 

[SilverArrow]

I think I saw him actually pass someone once - admittedly it was a good move (seem to recall it was the move that Alonso and someone else tried but ran wide onto the marbles, where Vettel cut back in just in time), but the sole reason he skipped half a dozen places was because everyone else pitted. That's not "one hell of a race" by any stretch of the imagination, that's a strategy call which hurt him in the last few laps anyway.

That wasn't his fault though as I said before his car was nowhere in a straight line, the DRS was barely helping him keep up to the cars ahead on the straight.

 

[Ardius]

Lets be fair then and say that Red Bull played a good strategy today but on the other hand it seemed today was something no one could really predict as I don't think we've had such a unique race where the gaps between cars have been so small.
So I think also today was a case of just being lucky/unlucky with strategies where people get fed into traffic and when they pitted.

To varying degrees, Mercedes, Williams and Red Bull got lucky with strategy. Whereas McLaren, Lotus and Sauber were unlucky with theirs (though I think Sauber in particular were pretty foolish keeping Perez out when he was blatantly struggling - sadly this happens a lot with Sauber and strategies these days).

 

[tribolik]

I think I saw him actually pass someone once - admittedly it was a good move (seem to recall it was the move that Alonso and someone else tried but ran wide onto the marbles, where Vettel cut back in just in time), but the sole reason he skipped half a dozen places was because everyone else pitted. That's not "one hell of a race" by any stretch of the imagination, that's a strategy call which hurt him in the last few laps anyway.

Well I saw him overtake a Sauber, a Williams and Raikkonen (dont know if he made anymore moves but this ones I saw on TV) and last two were good overtakes and the first one he made it look easy. What I didnt see was him overtaking in the usual spot (the DRS zone) and thats hardly his fault.

Edit: I nver thought I would be defending Vettel but whats fair is fair.

 

[F1GTR]

I never hide the fact that I despise the man. Yet again, it was another shining example of what a dirty driver he is. There was no need for him to do it. He just squeezed Raikkonen out. Had Raikkonen not been paying attention, it could have resulted in a little pitlane shunt. So how can you defend it as being an okay move? Why should Lewis have done it? Why shouldn't he just have kept straight.

I'll just leave this here.

 

[tribolik]

I'll just leave this here.

Bit naughty???

He did the exactly same thing to Raikkonen...

 

[Prince.M5]

(though I think Sauber in particular were pretty foolish keeping Perez out when he was blatantly struggling - sadly this happens a lot with Sauber and strategies these days).

There is something that I really don't understand with Sauber at all. Even during the race earlier today, it looked like at one point the Saubers especially Kobayashi was going for a 2 stop strategy. After his second stop, he was in there dicing with the McLarens, Red Bulls and Ferraris but out of nowhere they pulled Kobayashi in for the third stop when he clearly had the pace and could've gone for a 2 stop strategy.

The Saubers, undoubtedly were pretty quick but a flaw in strategy costed them a lot today.

 

[Northstar]

How is Vettel forcing him over his fault?

 

[tribolik]

There is something that I really don't understand with Sauber at all. Even during the race earlier today, it looked like at one point the Saubers especially Kobayashi was going for a 2 stop strategy. After his second stop, he was in there dicing with the McLarens, Red Bulls and Ferraris but out of nowhere they pulled Kobayashi in for the third stop when he clearly had the pace and could've gone for a 2 stop strategy.

The Saubers, undoubtedly were pretty quick but a flaw in strategy costed them a lot today.

They did the right thing with Kamui IMO at least he scored a point

How is Vettel forcing him over his fault?

Its just to ilustrate a point... it was a different race... and he called Vettel naughty and did the same thing to Raikkonen in this race...

 

[SilverArrow]

I'll just leave this here.

Notice though that this was before the pit lane was widened, compare this onboard to Raikkonen's and notice that he had plenty more room and in 2010 Lewis nearly ran over a wheel gun because it was tight. Even that wasn't much of an issue then so it shouldn't even be brought up now.

 

[Prince.M5]

They did the right thing with Kamui IMO at least he scored a point

Actually they were kind of correct for not putting either drivers in a tyre-cliff situation like Vettel and Raikkonen suffered but then again, if not because of the 3rd stop Kobayashi could've been ahead of Alonso and maybe in there with the McLarens. True, at least he scored a point - better than going home empty handed.

Still, I'm just saying from what I see but they at the track knows a whole lot more than me surely.

 

[joetoml1n]

Even that wasn't much of an issue then so it shouldn't even be brought up now.

Exactly! It wouldn't be an issue, if some people stopped TRYING to find fault with drivers..

 

[homeforsummer]

That wasn't his fault though as I said before his car was nowhere in a straight line, the DRS was barely helping him keep up to the cars ahead on the straight.

...and what part of any of that suggests Vettel drove a "hell of a race"? Vettel is a great driver, today he was hugely average.

And let's not forget - outpaced by his supposedly less talented team-mate.

 

[Ardius]

There is something that I really don't understand with Sauber at all. Even during the race earlier today, it looked like at one point the Saubers especially Kobayashi was going for a 2 stop strategy. After his second stop, he was in there dicing with the McLarens, Red Bulls and Ferraris but out of nowhere they pulled Kobayashi in for the third stop when he clearly had the pace and could've gone for a 2 stop strategy.

The Saubers, undoubtedly were pretty quick but a flaw in strategy costed them a lot today.

Every race I watch and Kobayashi or Perez start doing well or qualify well, I always fear for what strategy Sauber will play, very rarely is it any good.

The worst one was when they put Kobayashi on a terrible two-stop strategy at Hungary last year which he just went backwards being overtaken everywhere. And then people come on and talk about how Kobayashi has lost his touch! Its a shame that a team's terrible strategies can influence how people view drivers' abilities.

I think there have been enough good races by both drivers to show they are better than some of results they receive thanks to Sauber's strategists. I only hope the top teams take notice, particularly for Kamui seeing as he doesn't really have any ties with any of the top teams, whereas Sergio has the obvious Ferrari connection.

 

[SilverArrow]

...and what part of any of that suggests Vettel drove a "hell of a race"? Vettel is a great driver, today he was hugely average.

And let's not forget - outpaced by his supposedly less talented team-mate.

I'm not saying he drove a hell of a race but it wasn't average at all. He finished one place behind his team mate after being around 10 places behind after lap 1.