2012 F1 Mechanics: designs and pieces that will win WDC & WCC

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They do have to go back to a low nose, but there is an upper allowable limit to the height of said nose. Because of the advantages of running a higher nose, teams willdesign their cars with a nose as close to the upper limit as they can manage.
 
They do have to go back to a low nose, but there is an upper allowable limit to the height of said nose. Because of the advantages of running a higher nose, teams willdesign their cars with a nose as close to the upper limit as they can manage.

Oh okay then.
 
I´m guessing Ferrari will produce one B E A utiful car and come out the gates with guns blazin.

Now that BMW is out and Kubica aswell i´m rooting for Alonso and Ferrari.

But i do have a special connection for Hamilton as i know he is the quickest driver in the field. Senna-quick.
 
Ferrari say the same thing every year and the last 3 seasons they have come up with a piece of trash compared to the leader.
 
Ferrari say the same thing every year and the last 3 seasons they have come up with a piece of trash compared to the leader.

They weren't so bad at the start of 2010 :) It was their development early in the season that was the problem.
 
So specifically, how large is the change in the nose regulations? I would not regard the Mclaren nose as particularly low, especially when compared to most of the 2009 cars (Most notably Brawn, but Ferrari, Renault and Toyota also had quite low noses).
 
I don't know how low to expect it to be without getting into technical terms that I myself don't really understand (ScarbsF1 has a full explanation). You might not think the McLaren nose is particularly low, but like I said, teams will most likely run a nose that is as close to the upper limit as possible to encourage air to flow over the splitter.
 
Ferrari say the same thing every year and the last 3 seasons they have come up with a piece of trash compared to the leader.

It wasn´t a piece of trash per say. It was just that Newey had designed the most perfectly aerodynamic F1 car there ever was.

Then add the fact that Ferrari´s windtunnel was giving not working properly so they had to use Toyota´s instead etc.

2009 was their worst year. Kimi ending 6th and Ferrari 4th.

2010 Alonso went into the last race as World Champion, if it wasn´t for Vettel being the luckiest man in motorsport and Ferrari messing up the strategy, Ferrari would have been World Champions last year.
 
Ferrari say the same thing every year and the last 3 seasons they have come up with a piece of trash compared to the leader.
Ferrari's problem is that they don't really innovate. They take a look at the grid at the end of the season, and pick out the best designs. They then merge them all together for next year's car. Using this logic, their 2012 design might have McLaren's U-shaped sidepods tapering into Red Bull's coke bottle rear end. Individually, they are good ideas - but they don't necessarily work well together. But it's almost as if Ferrari are afraid to commit to anything radical because if it doesn't work, they'll be even further behind the competition. They've simply too conservative in their car design.
 
Why don't they make a generic design that all teams must use?

I am not a fan of F1, because almost every championship seems to be decided by whoever has the fastest car instead of who is the best driver.

Take for example the V8supercars, last weekend the entire field of around 30 cars were separated by 1 second in qualifying and this is a regular occurrence. 1 second!

F1 is awesome, but the racing is.... Boring. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. NASCAR is a lot more interesting to watch. One race can have so many different leaders and there is constantly passing going on. Even with DRS the racing in F1 is pretty boring. The fastest cars qualify at the front and win. Never passing anyone just driving around by themselves.

If all the cars were similar so that no car had a huge advantage due to some special design then the racing would be a lot more interesting. Just my opinion :) .......
 
Ferrari's problem is that they don't really innovate. They take a look at the grid at the end of the season, and pick out the best designs. They then merge them all together for next year's car. Using this logic, their 2012 design might have McLaren's U-shaped sidepods tapering into Red Bull's coke bottle rear end. Individually, they are good ideas - but they don't necessarily work well together. But it's almost as if Ferrari are afraid to commit to anything radical because if it doesn't work, they'll be even further behind the competition. They've simply too conservative in their car design.

That´s exactly what they won´t do for 2012.
They have been too conservative over the years like you said but 2012 they will do the exact opposite, let it all hang and see if it holds up or not.


Becuse Formula 1 is not a spec series. And it would lose a lot of fans if ever it became one.

And thank god for that.. I can buy speccing certain stuff like the gearbox but not the engine/aero department. F1 would die quickly if they did that.
 
F1 is awesome, but the racing is.... Boring. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. NASCAR is a lot more interesting to watch. One race can have so many different leaders and there is constantly passing going on. Even with DRS the racing in F1 is pretty boring. The fastest cars qualify at the front and win. Never passing anyone just driving around by themselves.

It´s obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

China GP had the most overtakes in the history of F1 at that time.

Fun Fact 1: Only 40% of the overtakes this year has been with DRS.
 
I´m guessing Ferrari will produce one B E A utiful car and come out the gates with guns blazin.

I'm thinking this to, but time will tell. Of course, being a fan of Ferrari I'd like to see this as well :lol: And Alonso really does deserve a car worthy of fighting for the Championship, after the roller coaster ride he has had over the past 5 years.

Ferrari's problem is that they don't really innovate. They take a look at the grid at the end of the season, and pick out the best designs. They then merge them all together for next year's car. Using this logic, their 2012 design might have McLaren's U-shaped sidepods tapering into Red Bull's coke bottle rear end. Individually, they are good ideas - but they don't necessarily work well together. But it's almost as if Ferrari are afraid to commit to anything radical because if it doesn't work, they'll be even further behind the competition. They've simply too conservative in their car design.

I think after 3 years of playing follow the leader, continually that 1 or 2 steps behind in development, Ferrari realize they must finally wake up and take a more radical approach if they plan on being able to fight for a Championship. With Ferrari starting with a much more optimized wind tunnel next year and with some new technical people in place to, they will likely start off the season in much better form. Ferrari is probably digging deep in this area to, as I've heard Ferrari have been consulting with Rory Byrne on the design of next years car.



Ferrari aims to hit the ground running in 2012
Source: autosport

Ferrari's chief designer Nikolas Tombazis says the Italian squad is aiming to hit the ground running in the 2012 season, but he admits the team is not taking anything for granted.

"Our objective is to arrive in Australia absolutely competitive already," Tombazis told Autosprint magazine.

"We don't want to say 'we are still behind, but we will do...'.

"It's clear however that out rivals are neither naive nor idiots. Our objective is to win, we aren't sparing anything. But we don't take anything for granted."

The Maranello squad has been hurt by uncompetitive starts to the season in the past two years, and this season has been much less successful than expected, having taken just one win.

Ferrari is planning a more aggressive approach for its car for next year, but Tombazis says the new machine will not be another Red Bull-like car, despite the team's dominance during the past two seasons.

"You can't ignore your competitors: if Red Bull wins, you can't say 'I'll just mind my own business'," he added.

"But it's not just Red Bull having interesting solutions: there are also slower cars with solutions worthy of consideration. You can't hide behind excuses. I think, however, that next year's car will have many different solutions, all ours.

"And it would not be fair to say it's a Red Bull, absolutely. It will be a Ferrari, it will be different in various areas, with new solutions in other areas, maybe taken from other cars. It will be a mix."

Tombazis also said that Ferrari has understood why some of the developments introduced in the latter part of the season have not worked, even if it ran out of time to work on them.

"We have understood what didn't work, but we haven't been able to fix it completely because, in September, solving the problem would have needed more time with effects only on the final three races, taking away too much time from next year's car.

"This is why, from that point on, we've struggled to stay close to our rivals."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In all honesty, I think this years Ferrari is actually quite good, it's just that they haven't been able to ultilize the potential of the EBD concept (which has been found to be an extremely powerful tool) to the extent that Red Bull or Mclaren have. Of course they've also struggled massively in terms of getting the car to perform consistantly on all the tires, so it should interesting to see if they can get a strong hold on this vital aspect for next year, as Red Bull and Vettel seemed to be on top of this from the get go.

With next years move to periscope exhaust which will most likely tone down any type of downforce producing affect from the exhaust, I really do think Ferrari has a strong shot at being a contender (I'm not sure if Silverstone was maybe a glimpse of this), as long as Newey doesn't continue his trend and pull another 3 rabbits out of his hat for next years RB8 :lol: On the other hand, it should be interesting to see what happens to Mclaren next year. I think the philoshpy they've had over the past few years (running an extremely stiff car in order to maintain the ride height for diffuser efficiency) has left them a bit comprimised in terms of the mechanical compliance of the car, but fortunately for them the powerful affect of the EBD has really been able to mask this problem up IMO, especially as they continue to develop and maximize it's potential. I will say Mclaren will have a bit of a one up though when it comes to the low nose and how they manage the airflow going into next year.

With that said, I'm really looking forward to the unveiling of next years cars to see what the teams have come up with. You would have to imagine that Ferrari and Mclaren will likely be turning up the wick a bit after being desimated this year. But then again, it's hard to stop a one man army like Newey.


Why don't they make a generic design that all teams must use?

I am not a fan of F1, because almost every championship seems to be decided by whoever has the fastest car instead of who is the best driver.

Take for example the V8supercars, last weekend the entire field of around 30 cars were separated by 1 second in qualifying and this is a regular occurrence. 1 second!

F1 is awesome, but the racing is.... Boring. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. NASCAR is a lot more interesting to watch. One race can have so many different leaders and there is constantly passing going on. Even with DRS the racing in F1 is pretty boring. The fastest cars qualify at the front and win. Never passing anyone just driving around by themselves.

If all the cars were similar so that no car had a huge advantage due to some special design then the racing would be a lot more interesting. Just my opinion :) .......

Personally, I've felt that the racing this year has been quite entertaining. Also, for me one of the most exciting and intriuging parts of the sport is the technical design and development race between the teams. This is one of the things that makes F1 - F1 (hell, we wouldn't have this interesting thread if it weren't for this aspect of the sport). It's not meant, nor should it be a a spec series with the ultimate goal to provide the best racing possible while finding the best driver possible.
 
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I think after 3 years of playing follow the leader, continually that 1 or 2 steps behind in development, Ferrari realize they must finally wake up and take a more radical approach if they plan on being able to fight for a Championship.
Pardon my scepticism, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Pardon my scepticism, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I can't blame you, and to some extent I'm in the same boat! :lol: But I really do think Alonso is real driving force behind the team now (especially after coming so close to the WDC last year) and is making sure to push the team to the maximium, while staying grounded and realistic as to what they must do (take a more radical approach) if they plan on achieving success.
 
Becuse Formula 1 is not a spec series. And it would lose a lot of fans if ever it became one.
Exactly. But I have always wondered what would happen if everyone was given the same base car and was allowed to develop it over a few seasons and see how different they look in the end.
 
Develop what? Setup?

Then they might aswell fire some of the sharpest brains in the world due to now job.
I mean develop new parts for the base car. I guess the easiest way to put it would be new "body kits". Not necessarily an idea I'd like to see in F1, was just sayin'. Actually I believe Indy Car have a plan for something similar to this or at least did.
 
This. They say this every season.

Do they? Can you at least provide examples (particularly in the past 3 years - F60/F10/F150) in which Ferrari have said they will take a "more radical/innovative approach for next years car."

Just asking because I think you guys are assuming a bit too much, and have forgotten (or maybe I have :sly:) exactly what has been said going into previous seasons.

I mean develop new parts for the base car. I guess the easiest way to put it would be new "body kits". Not necessarily an idea I'd like to see in F1, was just sayin'. Actually I believe Indy Car have a plan for something similar to this or at least did.

Hehe, I think everyone would just end up copying "the best car atm" and you would just end up with a series eerily similar to a spec series in the end (at least if the allowed development was marginal - only "body kits" as you say), as the teams would have little problem following the leader due to their massive budgets.
 
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Jackington
I mean develop new parts for the base car. I guess the easiest way to put it would be new "body kits". Not necessarily an idea I'd like to see in F1, was just sayin'. Actually I believe Indy Car have a plan for something similar to this or at least did.

aha ok, i dont thunk you would see much difference though (lap time wise) as they are very close right now for
the most part, regulations are pretty close
even though it lets engineers find the loopholes,
 
F1 is already the most technically regulated form of motorsport out there, shy on being a spec series that is (Even then, you don't need detaield technical regulations, just list what parts they have to use)

How you get different teams coming up with vastly different designs year by year amazes me.

F1 was always a constructor's sport. In it's earliest incarnation there was no such thing as a Driver's Championship. The only problem is they keep changing the regulations too often, meaning when teams actually catch up to the dominant team the stage is reset and then whichever team has the best people will be the new dominant team. We saw in 2004 how teams had caught up to Ferrari, but were lacking on reliability and consistency. Come 2005 the regs changed and it turned everything on it's head, and Renault became dominant in their place.

Things aren't settling down, major regulation changes are coming in next year (Related to the blown diffuser/exhaust and front wings mainly) despite the fact that Mclaren have caught up to Red Bull and Ferrari/Mercedes are getting there. I believe next year that the team who works out how to limit the loss in downforce from removing the blown diffuser will be the team that emerges victorious. Like I said, Red Bull have the best people so it will likely be them anyway, and Mclaren/Ferrari will be behind them again.
 
I would not call it major regulation changes for 2012.
2013 i would call major but 2012 is more or less the same except for certain areas.

They run 2012 stuff on the 11 cars right now and they still continue to gather info on the 11 car due to it being vital in 2012.
 
Why don't they make a generic design that all teams must use?

I am not a fan of F1, because almost every championship seems to be decided by whoever has the fastest car instead of who is the best driver.

Take for example the V8supercars, last weekend the entire field of around 30 cars were separated by 1 second in qualifying and this is a regular occurrence. 1 second!

F1 is awesome, but the racing is.... Boring. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. NASCAR is a lot more interesting to watch. One race can have so many different leaders and there is constantly passing going on. Even with DRS the racing in F1 is pretty boring. The fastest cars qualify at the front and win. Never passing anyone just driving around by themselves.

If all the cars were similar so that no car had a huge advantage due to some special design then the racing would be a lot more interesting. Just my opinion :) .......

How can you say the racing is boring when you don't really watch it? 2011 has had some amazing racing, and seeing all of the top teams within 1 second in qualifying is not unusual.

Checkout Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton racing at Korea 2011 (2 weeks ago) and tell me that is boring racing.


Part of the excitement of F1 is that it is a technology race alongside the best drivers, the best complete package where the racing is between the whole teams, the drivers are just one component of that team but ultimately make all the difference.

The point in F1 is that passes take great skill and are a serious turning point in a race, a pass means something (a little less so with DRS, but it is a good balance), where as in NASCAR a pass that doesn't occur in the last few laps of the race doesnt mean a lot, especially at high speed tracks like Daytona and Talladega, where you just bump draft your way around for 2 hours with your buddies and the race starts on the last 3 laps.

NASCAR is not a technology race, but it is all about who can get the best setup and who can get away with things that they shouldn't be. There is a thread on the iRacing forums with actual NASCAR team owners and family members sharing cheating stories up to as recent as 2007.
 
Why don't they make a generic design that all teams must use?

I think you are missing the point of Formula 1.

F1 is awesome, but the racing is.... Boring. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

I would like to thank you, TiZzla, for letting me know that F1 racing is in fact boring. Now I can stop getting up at 6:00am to watch races.
 
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