2012 Formula 1 Monaco Grand Prix

[hornet_burnout]

Same one hamilton got this year.

And last year... in Monaco as well for instance.

Anyone know where I can watch an onboard video of Schumacher's pole lap?

Yes, I second the motion (searching)

 

[Anghammarad]

f1.com no longer directs to the official site. It's been like that since the DDoS attack before the Bahrain GP. The site is working for me.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

 

[SilverArrow]

Yes. No penalties for unintentional contacts. I'm no Schumacher fan, but the penalty he got was ridiculous...

It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, he caused a crash with another car. Almost all crashes are unintentional anyway, Vettel in Spa 2010 crashed into Button which caused him to retire, are you saying he shouldn't be penalised?

 

[Peter.]

Here you guys go, Schuamcher's lap, though it is narrated. But I hope you like HD.

 

[hornet_burnout]

It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, he caused a crash with another car. Almost all crashes are unintentional anyway, Vettel in Spa 2010 crashed into Button which caused him to retire, are you saying he shouldn't be penalised?

That was a very big mistake indeed. And I was pretty mad about it at the time...

I guess Pastor is right. There should be more consistency...

Here you guys go, Schuamcher's lap, though it is narrated. But I hope you like HD.

Thanks, gonna have a look at the 1st sector very carefully

Edit:
Well, reports of him overdriving are highly exagerated. Yes he took the bump, other could/should have. Absolutely great lap, and a great pole. Even if it doesn't stick.

 

[Seismica]

Yes. No penalties for unintentional contacts. I'm no Schumacher fan, but the penalty he got was ridiculous...

But he ended Senna's race. Senna was not at fault. The incident was caused by Schumacher's failed overtake, even if it was just a misjudgement of the braking point.

It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, he caused a crash with another car. Almost all crashes are unintentional anyway, Vettel in Spa 2010 crashed into Button which caused him to retire, are you saying he shouldn't be penalised?

Yep 👍

In Maldonado's case, it looked intentional. I haven't seen an onboard, but from the outside view, at no point did it look like he lost control, or did the back end step out. He only counter-steered after the contact, which says to me that he kept the wheel turned to deliberatly hit Perez. There is a zero-tolerance policy from the stewards when it comes to intentional contact with other cars, and the 10 place grid penalty was a result of this. Had it been accidental from the Stewards' perspective he would have been given a reprimand, or no action would have been taken as it was during free practice.

The contact probably weakened the track rod on Perez's car and indirectly caused it to fail in qualifying (weakened and then it probably broke on the kerb). Had this been proven (Well, it can't be proven); with hindsight 10 places wouldn't have been enough. At least he starts behind Perez anyway thanks to the gearbox change.

Whilst he is a good driver, something which he proved in Barcelona, he still lacks respect for other drivers and seems to be unaware of the risks to drivers, marshalls and spectators alike. If he keeps doing this he's going to have his racing license revoked, which would be a shame.

Here you guys go, Schuamcher's lap, though it is narrated. But I hope you like HD.

Cheers 👍 Very good lap by him, the car seems to be very good here which is surprising. I thought the Mercedes engined cars would be at a disadvantage here.

 

[SilverArrow]

That GP3 crash was insane. Surranovich given a 10 race ban and thrown out of the stewards office. Would he even return to the series again?

 

[hornet_burnout]

I've been saying that for a while. I like his speed, don't like the way he acts as if he "owns" the place and his lame excuses (today is one and the old thing vs Hamilton saying he didn't do anything, and many more from GP2 times)

Last race confirmed his speed, didn't automatically make him a all round good driver...


About GP3 crash... Who cares about how many moves he did, a guy with no rear wing can't go around trying to hold the world behind him. That's plain stupid.

 

[Lizard]

The gp2 start was just as bad. Not in terms of drivers being dangerous but huge crash.

 

[Ardius]

^Reminds me a lot of online races in F1 CE/2010/2011. I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened in F1 as they quite often get side by side on the first lap. But it was really all caused by Cecotto losing control up the hill and after that everyone behind has no chance as they are all going flat out up there and have their visibility blocked by cars ahead.
Plus quite a lot of the GP2 field are pretty dangerous normally anyway.

Its weird, GP2 and GP3 have the tougher races and overall championships to win. But FR3.5 has the better drivers.

Good to see Palmer winning something again though. One was starting to wonder if he really was only where he was due to his father running the series he entered. It says a whole lot about FPA in its final few series that most of the top drivers from it (Palmer, Jack Clarke, Alex Brundle) have gone on to be pretty mediocre in other series. The only driver I can remember from the latter years of FPA doing well is Richard Plant who is pretty handy in the Porsche Cup UK.

 

[m8h3r]

Wow. I watched the GP2 race but only just watched the GP3 crash. If you have no rear wing then get out of the 🤬 way. Get to the side and let everyone past as if you are being lapped.

 

[Ardius]

Do these things not have wheel tethers any more? 2 not very heavy accidents with Maldonado and later Perez and both lose a rear wheel.

Wheel tethers cannot withstand all forces and damage. They are not indestructible. Both Perez and Maldonaldo's accidents I think qualify as heavy damage - the wheels took direct contact with the armco at high speed!

The wheel tethers at least did their job in not allowing the wheels to go flying off in crazy directions into the air or at high speed across the track (though it was unlikely in those accidents anyway).

 

[JohneyPixel]

What the 🤬 was that guy with no rear wing thinking?

As for the GP2 race, it would be interesting to see the onboard footage from the guy in the back of the field who got airborne and 'jumped' over someone
Who was it?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I think it was a deserved penalty for Maldonado. He had a similar incident with Hamilton in the past. It looked like an intentional act and I bet the stewards had a clear evaluation with the extra data available.


Go Webber! Alonso winning would be nice, but Webber or Hamilton would be good mix-up.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I think Webber will go on to win with Hamilton getting Nico in the first corner to hold on to second, I hope Hamilton gets a good start because I have a horrible feeling that Grosjean will fancy his chances around the outside of turn 1.

 

[tribolik]

What the 🤬 was that guy with no rear wing thinking?

As for the GP2 race, it would be interesting to see the onboard footage from the guy in the back of the field who got airborne and 'jumped' over someone
Who was it?

He was probably thinking «you might have rear ended me ruinned my race and taken out my rear wing but you wont get pass me»

what would you be thinking if someone crashed into you and then tried to pass you?

 

[Bram Turismo]

Maldonado is still too reckless. I'm sure he didn't turn into Perez on purpose, but it seems he's just not thinking through his actions. Apart from Spain, one wouldn't really call Maldonado a promising driver. I'd say he has to fix these issues of not being careful and keeping in mind that other drivers actually are out there, instead of saying that Williams can actually challenge for the title after a, and I'm taking a very huge leap here, one-off win for Williams' season.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It looked like an intentional act and I bet the stewards had a clear evaluation with the extra data available.

The only problem with the "Maldonado did it deliberately" theory is that Maldonado had no reason to do it deliberately.

 

[hornet_burnout]

What the 🤬 was that guy with no rear wing thinking?

I'm betting on "why am I seeing black and orange flags"?

Anyway, good to see countryman Antonio Felix Costa P2 in race 2.


As for Maldonado, I'm beginning to think he suffers from bad peripheral vision...

 

[tribolik]

The only problem with the "Maldonado did it deliberately" theory is that Maldonado had no reason to do it deliberately.

Is there any reason for someone to be a bully?

I'm betting on "why am I seeing black and orange flags"?

Anyway, good to see countryman Antonio Felix Costa P2 in race 2.


As for Maldonado, I'm beginning to think he suffers from bad peripheral vision...

he seemed by far the fastest man on track today... but on the other hand he didnt take the rear wing off the car in front of him so I might be wrong...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

GP3 cars don't produce anywhere near as much downforce as Formula 1 cars. Suranovich was visibly slower than everyone around him, but up until the point of contact, he was doing a fairly decent job of defending. He lost the wing well before Mirabeau that lap (possibly even the lap before), so he had been holding out a while and probably thought that he could make it back to the pits or even to 90% race distance.

 

[hornet_burnout]

GP3 cars don't produce anywhere near as much downforce as Formula 1 cars. Suranovich was visibly slower than everyone around him, but up until the point of contact, he was doing a fairly decent job of defending. He lost the wing well before Mirabeau that lap (possibly even the lap before), so he had been holding out a while and probably thought that he could make it back to the pits or even to 90% race distance.

IN:
http://www.gp3series.com/News/2012/05_May/Dmitry-Suranovich-excluded-from-Monaco-Race-2/

"Suranovich failed to comply with a black and orange signal flag signal after he had lost his rear wing."

He shouldn't be "racing" he should be "limping" to the pits.

(...)
he seemed by far the fastest man on track today... but on the other hand he didnt take the rear wing off the car in front of him so I might be wrong...

He stated on Twitter that he could win, but there was just no way around P1 in that track except at the start.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Maldonado is still too reckless. I'm sure he didn't turn into Perez on purpose, but it seems he's just not thinking through his actions. Apart from Spain, one wouldn't really call Maldonado a promising driver. I'd say he has to fix these issues of not being careful and keeping in mind that other drivers actually are out there, instead of saying that Williams can actually challenge for the title after a, and I'm taking a very huge leap here, one-off win for Williams' season.

I agree I think Spain was his only good performance in F1, people speak about him as if he has lots of potential like Perez but Perez is far more mature and only 22 years old.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Is there any reason for someone to be a bully?

Yes, there is, actually. Behaviors are learned. In school children, a bully is often himself (or herself) bullied by someone else. They feel powerless, and so bully others to feel better about themselves, to prove to themselves that they are not powerless. It's called antecedent-behavior-consequence. The antecedent is that a child is bullied. The behaviour is that that child bullies another. The consequence is that the bully feels better about themselves.

In the case of Spa 2011, the stewards reprimanded Hamilton for his role in the incident, which is an odd move, considering that Hamilton was the victim. However, high-angle shots of Hamilton passing Maldonado showed Hamilton squeezing the Williams off the dry racing line and onto the wet circuit in the middle of Maldonado's flying lap. Given the rapid decline in lap times, Maldonado had a reasonable chance of setting a better time and improving his position with that lap. The stewards felt that Hamilton unintentionally provoked Maldonado with the move, and that with his judgement clouded by anger, Maldonado hit him 250 metres later.

From that, we can extrapolate that Maldonado does not go around deliberately crashing into anyone in front of him. He will deliberately crash into someone who he feels has wronged him on the circuit. The antecedant is somebody slights him. The behaviour is that he crashes into them. The consequence is that he feels better about being crossed. Based on the replay, Sergio Perez didn't actually do anything to set Maldonado off. There was no antecedent, so the behavior wasn't triggered.

 

[Ardius]

I agree I think Spain was his only good performance in F1, people speak about him as if he has lots of potential like Perez but Perez is far more mature and only 22 years old.

He was good last year at Monaco and he was ahead of Barrichello on several occasions on pace last year.
He also was doing pretty well at Melbourne this year before crashing it.

Its more than just last race that gave the impression that he has some decent speed.

I agree though that Perez is a better driver...most of the grid are more consistent and less wild than Pastor.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

IN:
http://www.gp3series.com/News/2012/05_May/Dmitry-Suranovich-excluded-from-Monaco-Race-2/

"Suranovich failed to comply with a black and orange signal flag signal after he had lost his rear wing."

He shouldn't be "racing" he should be "limping" to the pits.

This isn't a question of what he did as opposed to what he should have done. It's a question of why he did it. I'm well aware of what the sporting regulations are. I'm not denying that Suranovich ignored them. What I'm wondering is why he ignored them.

 

[Matty]

What I think happened, and I may be wrong but it's just an opinion.

Perez pulled aside for Maldonado. When Maldonado went to go round him Perez was closer to the apex then he thought and the rear wheel caught Perez's front left.

He in my opinion thought Perez was further back and went to take the racing line. No intention.

 

[hornet_burnout]

This isn't a question of what he did as opposed to what he should have done. It's a question of why he did it. I'm well aware of what the sporting regulations are. I'm not denying that Suranovich ignored them. What I'm wondering is why he ignored them.

I think he tried to explain it to the Marshals but was thrown out of their office cause they didn't even care to hear an excuse (I'll try to find where I saw that, maybe there's the excuse as well).

 

[Ardius]

This isn't a question of what he did as opposed to what he should have done. It's a question of why he did it. I'm well aware of what the sporting regulations are. I'm not denying that Suranovich ignored them. What I'm wondering is why he ignored them.

Because he's an idiot who should realise a rear wing is pretty damn severe damage and that a black and orange flag cannot be ignored.
Basics of racing - understand what flags mean and follow their message.

If the lack of rear wing is not obvious enough, the fact he was so much slower than the drivers behind should be enough of a message that you are getting in the way!

Quite obviously he thought he was fine to keep going and I can only assume he either thought black and orange flags were for someone else, aren't mandatory or just simply didn't see them. Whatever the reason, he shouldn't be racing if he doesn't understand what such flags mean or he is not noticing the flags/or not appreciating such damage isn't ok.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The team obviously would have informed him of it. And they probably would have told him to bring the car back to the pits so as to avoid a safety car (or something similar). In that respect, Suranovich probably intended to observe the flags ... but for some reason, he seemed to think he could do that at race speed.

Aren't you supposed to learn this stuff in Formula Ford?