2012 Formula One Santander British Grand Prix

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The accident is completely Pastor the Mastor's fault. Even if he hopped some curbs and lost control. Its his job to avoud those situations. Perez was already ahead and on the outside. It doesnt matter. He should have conceded the position or atleast not clobbered Perez if he had ANY respect for the other teams and drivers and the money they spend to put these cars on track. Of COurse he has no money issues. PAY driver and nothing else. Barcelona was a total Fluke.

Maldonado was simply In the Zone at Barcelona. But he is useless in every other situation.

If anyone saw how Rafael Nadal the 25 year old 11 time tennis grand slam champion got beat at Wimbledon last week in the second round by a nobody(Lukas Rosol) who happened to be in the Zone on that tennis court for that one day youll understand that Pastor is not that good just because he had a big victory.Rosol lost in the next match. Pastor is a dare i say it 1 and done
 
I have been a Williams fan since the early 90s and this goes without saying and has probably been mentioned several times but this is by far Williams worst driver lineup. Maldonado is a menace, Bruno senna is simply too slow, the car is fast because of the money these two have brought in...what a dilemma, you can't fire them because then your development money disappears, meanwhile you have a winning car in the hands of children.

Think about the kind of finishes Williams would be getting with Heidfeld in the car, or maybe Ralf Shumacher, Anthony Davidson, Jacques Villeneuve, etc. PASTOR freakin MALDONADO won a race in this car, that tells you everything you need to know about its pace.

My dream is for Felipe Massa to come to Williams and invest all his Ferrari money into the team, plus Anthony Davidson and his SkyF1 paycheck :)
 
Kobayashi Maru

:lol:

Hm, punishment is a bit excessive for Kobi, because he would already have known that he made a very serious and potentially lethal error at that time. Additionally you could see that he was actually trying to avoid the end result (cadence braking and steering).

Wherelse Maldonaldo didn't really seem to be aware of what was actually going around him at that time.

As with Maldonado, even though mid-incident, Kobayashi was simply trying to get the car back under control... it's the behaviour that started the incident (hot entry, poor angle) that caused it. While I agree it's a bit harsh, I've seen the FIA come down hard on pit incidents before. Which is proper... you don't want people hotdogging around when there are people standing in the road.

I love how utterly forgettable Rosberg has become.



I see it as very deliberate. Honestly. No hating now.




Twitch beforehand, he had to counter, and you can't counter with locked tires, so he had to ease off the brakes... not deliberate... maybe... but very stupid to try to carry so much speed when you're boxed in.
 
I see it as very deliberate. Honestly.
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I have been a Williams fan since the early 90s and this goes without saying and has probably been mentioned several times but this is by far Williams worst driver lineup. Maldonado is a menace, Bruno senna is simply too slow, the car is fast because of the money these two have brought in...what a dilemma, you can't fire them because then your development money disappears, meanwhile you have a winning car in the hands of children.

Think about the kind of finishes Williams would be getting with Heidfeld in the car, or maybe Ralf Shumacher, Anthony Davidson, Jacques Villeneuve, etc. PASTOR freakin MALDONADO won a race in this car, that tells you everything you need to know about its pace.

My dream is for Felipe Massa to come to Williams and invest all his Ferrari money into the team, plus Anthony Davidson and his SkyF1 paycheck :)

The Williams isn't as fast as the Catalunya win would have made it seem. Maldonado is undoubtedly quick, but his racecraft needs serious work. Senna needs to rediscover the speed he had earlier on in the year, when he was actually ahead of Badgift in the standings.

It's probably the worst lineup in that they have two inexperienced drivers, and one is far too incidental, but talent wise, they aren't too bad.
 
PeterJB
considering I had virtually no commentary

I have two options in Japan. Japanese commentary or no commentary. I find the autosport live feed good for filling in the blanks.

Good race. I hope the new podium procedure doesn't catch on at other circuits. I was watching the world feed with no commentary and I heard vettel's conversation with the fia delegate. I have a feeling this is silverstone only as I doubt the fia would leave this to the last minute to inform the drivers.
 
:lol:



As with Maldonado, even though mid-incident, Kobayashi was simply trying to get the car back under control... it's the behaviour that started the incident (hot entry, poor angle) that caused it. While I agree it's a bit harsh, I've seen the FIA come down hard on pit incidents before. Which is proper... you don't want people hotdogging around when there are people standing in the road.



Twitch beforehand, he had to counter, and you can't counter with locked tires, so he had to ease off the brakes... not deliberate... maybe... but very stupid to try to carry so much speed when you're boxed in.

The position was lost so yeah it was stupid of him to fight to the point of contact.Pastor Malfunctionado strikes again!
 
This is Maldonado's second failed attempt at a pass. They should fine him his own left hand, for the sake of the sport.
 
The Williams isn't as fast as the Catalunya win would have made it seem. Maldonado is undoubtedly quick, but his racecraft needs serious work. Senna needs to rediscover the speed he had earlier on in the year, when he was actually ahead of Badgift in the standings.

It's probably the worst lineup in that they have two inexperienced drivers, and one is far too incidental, but talent wise, they aren't too bad.

Petrov made Senna look terrible and Barrichello made Maldonado look terrible. A fast car funded and driven by 2 of the worst drivers will bring more success than a slow car driven by the best drivers.

They didn't fine Lewis Hamitlon last year when he sucked at passing.

If I had as much money as an F1 driver I would rather take a few $10,000 fines than 5 place grid drops/drive throughs.
 
Petrov made Senna look terrible and Barrichello made Maldonado look terrible. A fast car funded and driven by 2 of the worst drivers will bring more success than a slow car driven by the best drivers.
When was this exactly? It certainly wasn't last year.
 
Just goes to show that having a car (and tyres?) that behaves to your liking is very important after all and that perhaps we should not be so quick to judge certain driver's pace just because of one bad season. Makes me feel more than ever that spec series are hence not a fair comparison of talent.

While I agree, I don't think that Massa was just slow last season. He also displayed Maldonado-esque brain fade on several occasions that made me question why he still had a seat. The contacts with Hamilton (some of which were Hamilton's fault, in fairness to Massa) and for me, breaking his wheel on the same bit of kerb twice (at Korea or India, can't remember which) suggests his head just wasn't screwed on right last year.

This year he's not just not as slow, but also he's making fewer mistakes. Like Hamilton, I think Massa's attitude has changed a little this year, and it's paying dividends as the Ferrari improves. I'd even go as far as to say that Massa could be in with a chance of winning a GP this year.

They didn't fine Lewis Hamitlon last year when he sucked at passing.

Didn't they fine him loads last year for sucking at passing? I thought that was the whole thing with last year... :odd:

Even so, Hamilton also did a lot of actual passing last year. Much of the reason he was involved in so many incidents was because he was simply passing more people than anyone else at the front of the grid. Apart from Button perhaps, whose passes were certainly cleaner.

In fact, I've found some interesting stats on passing last year.

Including passes off the grid, Sebastien Buemi made the most overtakes (corrected for retirements) in 2011, with 112.

He also made the most overtakes overall, equal with Perez, on 82. Button was next on 77 overall (indicative of the amount of races he had to come from way back and still finished on the podium, cementing my thoughts about just how good Button was last year). It also shows that Michael Schumacher's points tally wasn't representing just how hard he had to work for it, as he had some of the highest numbers too.

Not sure if the stats include corrections for people you pass in the pits, but since the grid usually evens out after a stop (i.e. you come in from 5th, end up 15th, then everyone else pits and you end up back in 5th again) I'm not sure how much it'd add overall anyway.

Another interesting stat from that page: "DRS overtakes have outnumbered normal moves in eight of 18 races" So it's useful, but non-DRS overtaking is still king.
 
Twitch beforehand, he had to counter, and you can't counter with locked tires, so he had to ease off the brakes... not deliberate... maybe... but very stupid to try to carry so much speed when you're boxed in.

Yes, not deliberate as in "I'll just punt this guy out and get on with it", but as in trying to make the other guys life harder, too hard. Again...



That was exactly what I was thinking...


Oh and I'd like to just leave this here, for perspective:

Senna: 0 - 8 - 6 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 2
Pastor: 0 - 0 - 4 - 0 -25- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0
 
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Where was you? i went for the whole weekend, camping was a nightmare, mud EVERYWHERE! but today was awesome along the pit straight! then climbing the pit fences afterward to see all the cars :P

Stowe B!

Anyway, time for my report!

Last year I went with two friends and camped, this year I went with Dad and stayed in B&B a 10 minute drive away. The queues on Friday morning weren't too bad, Dad was getting annoyed because none of the stewards seemed to know where we should park, we got a spot anyway, arriving at about 8:30.

We went to the International Pits Straight for Practise 1, what we did last year. Unsurprisingly it was very wet and not many cars went out. I did notice over the weekend that the Caterhams produced a deep bassy sound on the downshifts, just like last year. The Lotuses had quite a deep sound when on the power, and the HRTs had fairly dull engine note.

We then went to Abbey to see GP2 practise and HFO Championship practise. I was pleasantly surprised to see vintage F1 cars from the 70's and 80's, though the rain meant they were very slow.

Village for Practice 2 and GP2 (which got red flagged 3 times). For the first 40 minutes virtually no one did any proper laps apart from Kobayashi, but the rained eased off and they all came out. I Should have been able to notice Senna's crash from my angle but only saw the replays. We then went to Luffield for GP2 and Porsche Supercup, by which time the rained eased off and the sun came out. We got back to the car but there was virtually no movement in the car park, so we walked around the track for an hour or so and then left.

It was only once we got the back to the B&B that we realised people had been turned away, and that they were advising with parking permits (including us) not to bother tomorrow.

We very luckily got a parking spot on Saturday morning. Though we saw that people had parked all along the verge of the southbound road through Datford, and that they were even camping on the roundabout islands! We stayed at the International Pits Straight for the entire day. Qualifying was very good up until the red flag, the rain was relentless though. I saw Niki Lauda outside the Red Bull garage doing his presenting, and also Ted Kravitz walking up and down the pit lane. Everyone went mental when the BBC guys appeared! During the red flag our entire grandstand started doing Mexican waves, and we got the mechanics to do them to! Every time a driver appeared on screen we shouted at the to wave at us, and as you probably saw we got Rosberg and Ross Brawn to do it! Everyone booed Maldonado when he appeared on screen, and Charlie Whiting when he walked down the pit lane! Everyone was also furious after Glock's spin which cost a Button a place in Q2 (though it was his fault for doing lousy laps beforehand).

The first GP2 race was under a safety car start, but the GP3 race had a standing start, so that was good to see. The vintage F1 cars raced as well, they were incredible loud, and unreliable! Five of the broke down, and a old Tyrrell, got stuck on the grass and Club, and got out when the marshals pushed him!

We arrived at the circuit at 6:45 on Sunday morning, and had to park in one of the camping fields, though it was only across the road. It was very cloudy and misty at first, with occasional bits of drizzle, but gradually cleared up. We were sat at Stowe B, so we caught two nice shunts in the GP2 and GP3 races, and a Porsche span off in front of us. The sun came out properly around 12:00, and it during this time when the Red Arrows were about that my phone decided to die, I think the battery overheated in my pocket. Petrov drove past a normal speed, but the engine was very growling and then he went up in a cloud of smoke.

The TV screen was very difficult to see through both the fence and all the sunlight, but I could just about make out what was going on, even without any real commentary. The atmosphere at the Stowe was completely different from last year at Becketts. It was virtually silent when the lights went out, and not that loud when the cars went past for the first time, though I guess there was no roof to contain the sound.

I was just able to keep with everything, until the pit stop window and when the back markers started getting lapped. It was fascinating to see them battling with each other as they normally get hardly any TV coverage. Kovalainen steamed away, de la Rosa held Glock off for a while and Pic was battling hard against Karthikeyan. From my perspective they were equally as impressive as the leaders because they appear to be going just a fast from my perspective, but they only indication that they aren't is that they're further away each lap.

We got to see Massa pass Schumacher, Vettel pas Button (though with all the smoke from Button's lock-up it looked like they collided), and Kobayashi attempt to pass Schumacher. About 5 laps from the end I suddenly realised that Webber was catching Alonso. I didn't see the move but he was very popular when he drove past us. Vettel was catching him at a rate of knots too and Kobayashi was homing in on Button. The two Toro Rossos ran in formation for pretty much the entire race, with Rosberg in front of them in the first half and behind them in the second. Hamilton slowed down a lot at the end. He also did doughnuts right in front after the race finished.

We decided to go straight to the car, and were lucky as our car park was the first one to be opened. We drifted out of the muddy field and only went a few hundred yards before we encountered a queue, not 20 minutes after the race ended! We only moved when people turned around and gave up, because all the camp site exits were open, so people were flooding out of those. It took us about 3 hours before we finally got past all the exits and were able to speed on home.

Overall, good weekend! Not sure if I'll go for the third time next year because the risk of being turned away is too stressful, hopefully they'll learn from this and build bigger car parks!

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The Maldonado incident... Looking at it on face value, it was an accident. He didn't mean to understeer into Perez like that and did what he could to avoid having the accident.

1 thing.

Pastor Maldonado - Europe: "I don't know why he drove like that, he was struggling too much with the tyres. He was completely lost and at that moment I was getting very good pace. He tried a very aggressive move on me."

Pastor Maldonado - Britain: "...I even braked before my normal braking point, and the reason [for the accident is] I think because the angle I had on the inside of the corner was not enough for the tyre conditions."

So he knew Hamilton's tyres were worn and expected him to get out of the way, but when he knew his tyres were cold he just uses that as his excuse.

Fining him though is just ridiculous, like taking away a percentage of his pocket money and nothing else.
 
The problem with the Maldonado incident, is that had it been Alonso, or Webber, or Button on the inside it wouldn't have happened. It was understandably a racing incident, but Maldonado continues to put himself in positions that are beyond his skill as a driver. He's fast, but he just doesn't have the control or the snap-decision making of most of the other drivers.

I dunno about everyone else, but every time a car is alongside Maldonado I'm holding my breath waiting for the accident. This is not a good thing. The man needs to learn to drive within his limits, and not go for gold on every single corner.

I think the punishment he was handed this time was fair, but I expect that if he continues to make serious errors of judgement that the punishments start to be increased.
 
I'll say it again. He needs at least a one race suspension. Let him watch Bottas for a race and see how his (and Williams') attitude changes then.
 
I'll say it again. He needs at least a one race suspension. Let him watch Bottas for a race and see how his (and Williams') attitude changes then.

I seriously doubt he'd learn anything, or change for that matter.
 
What do you guys think goes on in Perez mind when his pulls that move? What's his plan? Does he have any? Is he thinking at all?
Because in my mind, Perez did the same mistake Hamilton did in Valencia, if not bigger. You have to anticipate some things. And don't give me the ''Maldo doesn't belong in F1 if you have to be extra carefull around him'' speech, because even if it is so, a driver's only goal should be to gather as many points as possible, not exploit an other driver's recklessness, therefore Perez should have stayed put and wait for a better opportunity.
 
What do you guys think goes on in Perez mind when his pulls that move? What's his plan? Does he have any? Is he thinking at all?
Because in my mind, Perez did the same mistake Hamilton did in Valencia, if not bigger. You have to anticipate some things. And don't give me the ''Maldo doesn't belong in F1 if you have to be extra carefull around him'' speech, because even if it is so, a driver's only goal should be to gather as many points as possible, not exploit an other driver's recklessness, therefore Perez should have stayed put and wait for a better opportunity.

Well I'm glad it's only in your mind, because it's complete claptrap. The fact of the matter is that Maldonado appears to have a severe attitude problem, which makes his on-track behaviour both risky and stupid. If you believe that trusting other professional drivers to not behave like petulant jerks is a mistake, then perhaps you don't know much about motor racing at all.
 
He'll certainly learn nothing when:
  • Given a five place grid penalty for deliberately sideswiping another driver (Belgium 2011)
  • Given a drive through and 30s penalty for ignoring blue flags (Abu Dhabi 2011)
  • Given a ten place penalty for causing an avoidable accident (Monaco 2012)
  • Given a 20s penalty for causing an avoidable accident (Europe 2012)
  • Given a 10,000 Euro fine for causing an avoidable accident (Britain 2012)
Given that he blames Hamilton for the European GP crash and - though it's less clear cut - rejects the stewards' two punishments (very unusual) at the British GP, there's not a lot of learning going on.

Though he did seem to learn something when
  • Given a four race ban for failing to slow down at the scene of an accident and seriously injuring a marshal (World Series by Renault, Monaco 2005)
He doesn't seem to have stopped treating other drivers as the enemy, but he does seem to have stopped treating warning flags as ignorable. Seems that the best way to get a racing driver to listen is to stop him racing...
 
Well I'm glad it's only in your mind, because it's complete claptrap. The fact of the matter is that Maldonado appears to have a severe attitude problem, which makes his on-track behaviour both risky and stupid. If you believe that trusting other professional drivers to not behave like petulant jerks is a mistake, then perhaps you don't know much about motor racing at all.

No it's not, but until the petulant jerk gets booted from F1 ,you should be as careful as possible around him, if you wanna score points. If you wanna be a hero, get hit, and then start the Anti-Maldo revolution, good for you.
 
Petrov made Senna look terrible and Barrichello made Maldonado look terrible. A fast car funded and driven by 2 of the worst drivers will bring more success than a slow car driven by the best drivers.

Maldonado and Senna both managed to beat Barrichello and Petrov more than once last year, and when you consider their experience compared to their former rivals, that's not bad at all.
 
Seems that the best way to get a racing driver to listen is to stop him racing...

I agree... He is too hot headed and from all I read about his position on any incident he admits to absolutely zero responsibility in all. And don't give me the "if you admit then you get a penalty" speech.

Many drivers after the events present some form of a calmer and different speech, allowing you to read some admission of guilt "between the lines". He does none of that.

He just vows to keep doing as he is. So he's not getting the message, and will eventually, unintentional but recklessly hurt someone...
 
It's probably the worst lineup in that they have two inexperienced drivers, and one is far too incidental, but talent wise, they aren't too bad.

this is the worst driver lineup talent wise in Williams history period.
 
Though he did seem to learn something when
  • Given a four race ban for failing to slow down at the scene of an accident and seriously injuring a marshal (World Series by Renault, Monaco 2005)
He doesn't seem to have stopped treating other drivers as the enemy, but he does seem to have stopped treating warning flags as ignorable. Seems that the best way to get a racing driver to listen is to stop him racing...

Wasn't that because he could have been arrested and charged with dangerous driving at that time?
 
I doubt it - though he was banned for life from the Principality, until money intervened.
 
HeXoSKEL3t0n
Can't believe that the Valencia 2012 thread got nearly double the posts compared to here :O

So far. The discussion often continues until the next thread is created, so this threads post count will go up.
 
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