2012 Grand Premio Petrobras do Brasil
- Thread starter Matty
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EDIT: I just noticed that it had already been posted. Sorry.
one thing i don't get about that gif is if you watch and pause the feed from the overtake there is only 1 person in the flag post and not 2 like in the gif. weird.
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4059/jjha.png
how does this embedding work?
- 84,380
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
All of which is why I was saying on Sunday that stewards need to do their jobs during the race and not some time after it...
No-one wants to see anyone having a race taken off them after the fact. No-one wants to see anyone having a championship taken off them after the fact. We watch F1 to watch F1, not to have history changed.
It's funny 'cos Schumacher was dropped from 6th to 12th after passing after a pair of marshalls waved greens at him...
No-one wants to see anyone having a race taken off them after the fact. No-one wants to see anyone having a championship taken off them after the fact. We watch F1 to watch F1, not to have history changed.
It's funny 'cos Schumacher was dropped from 6th to 12th after passing after a pair of marshalls waved greens at him...
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Seismica
Premium
- 4,346
- Guisborough
- GTP_Seismica
This is exactly what I was thinking. When this happened to Schumacher, Mercedes were told that even though green flags were shown it technically wasn't a green flag zone. If they can take positions away from somebody based on a technicality, then they can't just decide to not do the same to somebody else just because the title is affected.
- 13,831
- Down under
No case for Vettel to answer for, says FIA.
I'm glad there are no double standards. Just standards Vettel has to adhere to, and standards everybody else does
.
I'm glad there are no double standards. Just standards Vettel has to adhere to, and standards everybody else does
.
- 84,380
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
No case for Vettel to answer for, says FIA.
I'm glad there are no double standards. Just standards Vettel has to adhere to, and standards everybody else does
Oh, well that's all clear then.
- 2,791
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
Well, that's it then...
- 2,791
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
Pretty strong message here 
- 2,791
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
- 2,012
F1 cars only work if driven at their limits. That's how they are made.
Exceeding the limits means finding time from the car that a "natural" driving style would not. In other words, do something differently. "Upset" the car. "Throw" it around. Do something most people would consider stupid.
If exceeding the limits meant certain death, then drivers like Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso would not have 1/2 of a second per lap over their team-mates in qualifying. Put all drivers in something like a go-kart, which has very specific limits, and they should turn out laps within a tenth of each other.
Granted... there are cars that are designed to do this... to take advantage of unusual effects. Alonso's old Renault, or Vettel's Red Bull now, are cars which require you to rethink driving entirely. I'd say Alonso's Ferrari at the start of the season, the twitchy monster that it was, was also an example. But those two drivers did and could. Their team-mates, who drive at their own limits and who couldn't or can't adapt, were much slower.
I'd argue that all the drivers are driving at their limits. It's just that some have limits that are obviously higher than others.And if their limits and the cars' limits don't coincide, they adapt, and find the new limits... while other drivers just plod on, doing the same thing they've done from day one.
It is a useless discussion anyway lol, though it is true adapting to newer cars/tires/etc. plays a huge part.
Next year datsun+renault>ferrari.
- 27,163
- United Kingdom
Except it isn't.
It's entirely possible to drive an F1 car under its limits. That's why some people are slower than others. It's also possible to drive an F1 car over its limits. That's why we see people doing massive skids every so often, particularly in wet weather.
The key is that the best drivers find the balance. The best drivers will drive at or over the limit, getting the most from the car. The not-so-good drivers will never quite hit that limit. Naturally, this variable also depends on how good the car is, and how much confidence the driver has in its abilities.
- 2,012
A f1 car does not work ok when driving at 50% and that's a fact.
- 23,800
- Philippines
That, basically.
Nobody drives an F1 car at 50%. an F1 car driven at 50% is going to go off the road backwards because it isn't developing enoug downforce to stick to the road and doesn't have enough heat in its tires to make up for not having enough downforce.
All the drivers have to drive at at least this 95% to make it around the track in one piece. The fast drivers drive at 100% of the mechanical and aero grip available. The fastest ones in qualifying drive over that 100%, exceeding the available grip to create situations (opportune slip angles, mid-corner rotation, corner entry understeer setting up a very early corner exit (Alonso's Renault)) that make them go faster than if they were simply driving the car in the "proper" manner.
V v G T v V
(Banned)
- 178
- Barcelona
- Vv____GT5____vV
I don't see the problem in using a personalized font and color... It spices things up and kind of shows your personality in some manner...
I mean, just look how cute your post looks in Times New Roman
Also, try not to use textspeak... It will keep Famine and niky happy
and do try to use capital letters and correct punctuation.AUP can be found here, "Learn it, love it, live it"Second point of GTP's AUP (Acceptable Use Policy)
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- 27,163
- United Kingdom
All of which is why I was saying on Sunday that stewards need to do their jobs during the race and not some time after it...
No-one wants to see anyone having a race taken off them after the fact. No-one wants to see anyone having a championship taken off them after the fact. We watch F1 to watch F1, not to have history changed.
It's funny 'cos Schumacher was dropped from 6th to 12th after passing after a pair of marshalls waved greens at him...
That was completely different relating to the safety car last lap rules though, not the same as what Vettel did.
- 84,380
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Yes and no.
All the lights said the Safety Car was coming in and it was yellow flag conditions. The only thing that didn't was the two marshal posts waving green flags. Schumacher obeyed the flags, not the lights, and was penalised.
All the lights said it was yellow flag conditions. The only thing that didn't was the single marshal post waving green flags. Vettel obeyed the flags, not the lights, and wasn't penalised.
It's rather moot since both races apparently involved a set of unique rules. In the Brazilian Grand Prix, the rules said that a mid-zone marshal flag overruled lights if the flag agreed with the lights at the next zone. In the Monaco Grand Prix, the rules said that the safety car would pull in on the last lap but SC conditions would persists - unlike every other series and race ever to finish under a yellow chequered flag. And the Belgian Grand Prix in 2007 said "Any rules we haven't written yet but you break give you a 20s penalty"...
This is why people bitch about the FIA determining who wins the championship by making up rules to suit. Even in their statement they say "Under the FIA's rules for the Brazilian GP".
It'd be nice, just for once, to have a set of rules for a race that we're all aware of and marshals and stewards following that rulebook transparently and deciding outcomes during the race, not four days later.
All the lights said the Safety Car was coming in and it was yellow flag conditions. The only thing that didn't was the two marshal posts waving green flags. Schumacher obeyed the flags, not the lights, and was penalised.
All the lights said it was yellow flag conditions. The only thing that didn't was the single marshal post waving green flags. Vettel obeyed the flags, not the lights, and wasn't penalised.
It's rather moot since both races apparently involved a set of unique rules. In the Brazilian Grand Prix, the rules said that a mid-zone marshal flag overruled lights if the flag agreed with the lights at the next zone. In the Monaco Grand Prix, the rules said that the safety car would pull in on the last lap but SC conditions would persists - unlike every other series and race ever to finish under a yellow chequered flag. And the Belgian Grand Prix in 2007 said "Any rules we haven't written yet but you break give you a 20s penalty"...
This is why people bitch about the FIA determining who wins the championship by making up rules to suit. Even in their statement they say "Under the FIA's rules for the Brazilian GP".
It'd be nice, just for once, to have a set of rules for a race that we're all aware of and marshals and stewards following that rulebook transparently and deciding outcomes during the race, not four days later.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Now if that had been Hamilton, there would be a drive-through penalty for ignoring the yellows, a ten second penalty at the end of the race for reckless driving, and an edict disqualifying him from the results after Bruno protested the first lap incident.
Indigo is actually the default board color. The rest of us are just bumming it.
Sorry. I don't actually need to cut-and-paste to form my own opinion.
Indigo is actually the default board color. The rest of us are just bumming it.
Sorry. I don't actually need to cut-and-paste to form my own opinion.
The difference is though that the green flag should not have been waved in Monaco and the rules were already written that if the last lap ends behind the safety car it pulls in and everyone remains in formation over the line. It was unlucky for Michael that he reacted to the green flag he shouldn't have been shown but it was within the rules before the race and the green flag was in error. In fact it's the exact same situation as the Brasil race ended, the safety car pulled in at the end of the last lap and everyone took the checkered flag but they were still under safety car/yellow flag rules, nobody could overtake and there shouldn't have been any green flags.
In this case however if the track was clear the marshal was right to wave the green flag that Vettel passed and it was a legal pass, the track was clear as he reacted to a green flag that was right to be waved (unlike the one Michael saw). What was the yellow even for, I can't remember?
As for the ""Under the FIA's rules for the Brazilian GP" line I think that's just how it was written, I don't think they are insinuating there were any special rules for the race.
