2012 Malaysian Grand Prix

I happy to see williams doing well again(holding my breath...). Good to see Frank Williams near the front again. I hope the Ice man causes a good stir in qualy and race this weekend. The Lotus looks really quick. Grosjean says the car has no major flaws and the lotus had good tire wear last weekend. Have they finally analysed why Mark Webber has such terrible starts? You would think they have a simulator just for him to practice starts.


In terms of having a wet race..I dont think it would really favor any particular person. 5 of the former champs in the field on dynamite in the rain.. Hamilton-evil good, Alonso-see hamilton comment, Vettel-Can you say Toro Rosso?, Schumacher-Needs no introduction, Button-BAR. I dont know how Raikkonen would fair. He had a very sloppy weekend in Australia. Hope the rust has knocked off. He was making many mistakes on track.
 
prisonermonkeys
The fact that Maldonado qualified 8th while Senna was just 14th - the difference between them being seven-tenths of a second - kind of implies that Maldonado is better than Senna.
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Only been one race. A few more results like this and I'll agree with you. I actually think we will see Maldonado in a few more questionable incidents this season.
 
Sach
Only been one race. A few more results like this and I'll agree with you. I actually think we will see Maldonado in a few more questionable incidents this season.
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Yes agreed i dont think Senna's used to the car yet even though i think he was quicker in testing.
Australia was pretty unlucky for a the younger guy's, Senna was spun lap and then later taken out by his own countryman Massa , Maldo screwed up, & Romain got taken out BY Maldo, so hopfully they can put down a clean race this week ,
im interested in seeing what Romain and Bruno can really do.
 
Endless-Wilso
Yes agreed i dont think Senna's used to the car yet even though i think he was quicker in testing.
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If he's not used to the car yet, what they hell is he doing in Formula 1? Most teams will do more milage in testing than they will over the course of an entire season, so Senna has had ample opportunity to acquaint himself with the car. I know that sometimes it takes a driver a little while to get settled within a team, but that's no excuse given that Williams participated in all three test sessions, and will no doubt be at Mugello in May.

If it were any other driver, then I doubt people would be making excuses like this. Senna should be held to the same standards as everyone else on the grid.
 
It wasn't a case of not being used to the car. I don't think Senna was able to get a good lap together in Q2, otherwise, he would have been able to do much better than 14th, especially considering it's a track that he likes and has historically done well on.

Maldonado simply had a better weekend, but it being the first race, there's no need to start jumping to conclusions about Senna's pace compared to Maldonado.
 
I'm not jumping to conclusions. I'm just saying that if Maldonado bests Senna in Malaysia, then there is certainly a precedent for him being more in-tune with the car.
 
We will see what happens Senna vs Pastor. Senna didn't have a chance really since he had a STR up his rear end before the first corner. What irritated me was how Pastor let it slip from under him, that was an amazing race he had and I think Williams really needed a great result like that. I really want to see Williams do good more so than their drivers, however to be honest I like Bruno more so than Pastor.
 
Let's behonest here: Senna needs to beat Maldonado more than Maldonado needs to beat Senna. Maldonado is established within the team, brings plenty of money from Venezuela. and he also has a GP2 title to his name. He was also fairly evenly-matched compared to Rubens Barrichello last year.

Compare that to Bruno Senna, who has no real titles to his name except a second place in GP2 four years ago. He has no relationship with the team, and he has been paired with lowly-rated team-mates who have consistently beaten him. Chandhok acheived better results in 2010, Petrov had the upper hand all through the back half of 2011, and now Maldonado is off to a better start. However those results came about, team managers aren't going to sit down and go over each and every race of Senna's, because simply put, there is a pattern emerging. And if Williams has managed to build a better car and is in the process of clawing their way back to the front, then they're going to attract bigger and better talent. I'm sure they'd love to put Valterri Bottas in the car at some point, and if Senna isn't performing, then he's going to be the first in the firing line.
 
prisonermonkeys
Let's behonest here: Senna needs to beat Maldonado more than Maldonado needs to beat Senna. Maldonado is established within the team, brings plenty of money from Venezuela. and he also has a GP2 title to his name. He was also fairly evenly-matched compared to Rubens Barrichello last year.

Compare that to Bruno Senna, who has no real titles to his name except a second place in GP2 four years ago. He has no relationship with the team, and he has been paired with lowly-rated team-mates who have consistently beaten him. Chandhok acheived better results in 2010, Petrov had the upper hand all through the back half of 2011, and now Maldonado is off to a better start. However those results came about, team managers aren't going to sit down and go over each and every race of Senna's, because simply put, there is a pattern emerging. And if Williams has managed to build a better car and is in the process of clawing their way back to the front, then they're going to attract bigger and better talent. I'm sure they'd love to put Valterri Bottas in the car at some point, and if Senna isn't performing, then he's going to be the first in the firing line.
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This is true, but didn't he get caught in traffic during his Q2 lap? Plus the contact with Ricciardo and Massa didn't help. I reckon Malaysia (if he stays out of trouble) will show how on/off the pace he is.
 
Personally, I also like Bruno more than Pastor. Maldonado's demeanor and history of incidents isn't going to win many fans. But I'm trying to be realistic here. I think it's probably more likely that Maldonado will beat Senna in a Kubica-Petrov sort of way than the likelihood of the teammate battle going Senna's way. It'll probably end up something in between.
 
FIA rejects claims that Mercedes's rear wing is illegal

On the Williams battle, I want Senna to do better than Maldonado. Maldonado didn't help my opinion of him when he drove into Hamilton at Belgium... I also don't agree with people being in F1 due to financial backing. He is however starting to show results as well and I had forgotten about his GP2 title. Senna on the other hand has always done a reasonable job and been heralded for it in my eyes. The amount of times it has been said he'll get into his flow more once he is more used to the car suggests that it might not ever happen.
 
I for one think it is a very clever interpretation of the rules, and once the design has cleared the stewards inspection that should be the end of it. Just surprised there hasn't been as much of a controversy around the blown exhausts returning since it is clear what teams are doing again this year. Says a lot when you are heat shielding the path of bodywork out of the exhaust and downwards. As Brawn suggests, the Mercedes is redirecting current focus.
 
I think we can expect interesting weekend.

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I think the complaint about the Mercedes innovation is quite odd.

The complaint is based upon the fact that the Mercedes drag reduction system reduces drag...

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:D

But honestly, I do believe the purpose of the DRS was to mimic the effect of the F-duct but make it safer and to allow it to be driver activated within the rules (Aswell as to aid overtaking etc.). I think that whoever came up with the DRS simply didn't think that it could be linked to the front aswell in this way, as the Mercedes front wing F-duct concept only came to fruition after the DRS was implemented into the rules.

I think the FIA should update the rules regarding the F-duct to allow this, as it improves the safety of the car by keeping the balance through high speed bends (130R at Suzuka for example). For safety reasons, the FIA had to ban the DRS through the Monaco tunnel because it changed the balance of the car enough to allow snap oversteer. With the DRS also activating on the front, the balance is consistent so the safety is less of an issue.
 
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Loosely talking then yes. The main complaint is that driver operated aerodynamic devices are banned after 2010's F-Ducts. The debate is therefore whether the new duct is a side effect of the DRS opening, or driver operated in that Nico / Michael are using a button for it to operate...
 
pezzarinho17
Loosely talking then yes. The main complaint is that driver operated aerodynamic devices are banned after 2010's F-Ducts. The debate is therefore whether the new duct is a side effect of the DRS opening, or driver operated in that Nico / Michael are using a button for it to operate...
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But even if it is classed as a driver activated aerodynamic device, it's purpose is the same as the DRS and it is only activated by the DRS itself.

So it is a secondary effect yes, but the effect is the same as the primary purpose of the DRS, so to me that says that the Drag Reduction system, which is driver activated, it not doing anything other than it's primary purpose.

If it's blowing the diffuser to generate more downforce, then i'd consider it against the rules as that isn't the intended effect of the DRS.
 
If Merc's DRS/F-duct thingy is, because it hasn't been confirmed exactly how it works or what it does, only speculated on at this point, a way of channeling air from the rear wing, through the car and out of the nose to stall the front wing - i can't see how any other team can realistically build a similar system into their 2012 cars? It would surely require a complete redesign of the chassis.
 
Seismica
But even if it is classed as a driver activated aerodynamic device, it's purpose is the same as the DRS and it is only activated by the DRS itself.

So it is a secondary effect yes, but the effect is the same as the primary purpose of the DRS, so to me that says that the Drag Reduction system, which is driver activated, it not doing anything other than it's primary purpose.

If it's blowing the diffuser to generate more downforce, then i'd consider it against the rules as that isn't the intended effect of the DRS.
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Source:

With the exception of the rear wing (see below), moveable bodywork is not allowed. Furthermore, any system, device or procedure which uses driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car's bodywork is prohibited.
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This is from the summarised section rather than the detailed listing of the rules. It highlights the debate at the moment though well.

The function of the DRS is never debated. Forget about what the DRS does and just see that it is the ONLY aerodynamic change that the driver can make from the cockpit. So if you are not driving a Mercedes, this button opens the rear wing flap and all is as stated.

Driving a Mercedes however, you push the same button and the same rear wing flap opens. The question is then the system which operates off the back of the DRS. What has caused it to work? The duct was covered before, but has the DRS opened it or the driver? Because the driver definitely sent a signal via a button which has affected both systems.



To me, its equal to the "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" debate. One system does not operate without the other. So you can argue that the cockpit button controls both systems making the second illegal. Or you can argue that the button operates the DRS only, and the second system begins only as an effect of the DRS.
 
Joie de vivre!
I think we can expect interesting weekend.

vreme1.jpg
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4 years on and the F1 weather timing still display that kind of weather every season when the F1 circus comes to Malaysia! :lol:

But yes, it does rain but sometimes it rain in the morning, afternoon doesn't and rain again in the evening. The next day, rain day in afternoon, sunny in the evening. And so on...but i won't bet we get a wet race this year either but if we do. Epic. (and InvincibleM5 will be FFFFUUUU!!! :dunce:)
 
I think Felipe Massa will make a comeback in Malaysia. Not enough to conquer Alonso but enough to impress Ferrari.
 
prisonermonkeys
The fact that Maldonado qualified 8th while Senna was just 14th - the difference between them being seven-tenths of a second - kind of implies that Maldonado is better than Senna.
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The gap of 7 tenths only happened in Q2, when Senna didn't get a clear lap (IIRC he got baulked at the chicane T11-12.) The gap between them was only a couple of tenths in Q1.

I'm not saying Senna is better than Maldonado as I don't think he is, but you've got to be fair. The playing field that we're comparing them on hasn't been level so far.
prisonermonkeys
Most teams will do more milage in testing than they will over the course of an entire season,
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And that bit, with the testing restrictions we have now, is just plain wrong.
 
Im just hoping that after the obvious sand bagging by HRT at Australia they come back to where they truely belong at the front 👍
 
Wet races are always interesting, hope it isn't too bad though. We don't want everyone aquaplaning into the barrier at turn 1. Will be interesting to see how Mercedes get on at this reasonably high speed track, if they have genuine race pace we'll know by the end of the weekend.
 

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