2012 Santander Italian Grand Prix

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I'm tempted to make the second post the first post, but that might start a precedent.
 
dhandeh
I'm tempted to make the second post the first post, but that might start a precedent.

Not much point is there?
I've never really seen the point in a massive OP in these threads, pretty much everyone who pops into this thread will know most of the information that normally goes into an F1 thread OP anyway.
I for one never even look at it, all the info I can get in a few clicks.
 
tumblr_m5v71mnFjZ1qlt7lao2_r1_250.gif

:lol: 👍

I'm just wondering what Vettel's username is. :scared:
 
Not much point is there?
I've never really seen the point in a massive OP in these threads, pretty much everyone who pops into this thread will know most of the information that normally goes into an F1 thread OP anyway.
I for one never even look at it, all the info I can get in a few clicks.

That's why I haven't.👍
 
Small_Fryz
Thread starter gets a fail...

dhandeh
Indeed, can a mod tidy up the 1st post.

What's the point of an internet forum if everything's said in the first post? Why does the first post have to contain "everything" about the race? And why must every race thread be alike?

The answer is: We can add to it collectively and together. The first post doesn't have to be a work of art, it just gets the discussion started. The complaining about this ends now... We're tired of it. There's no points nor bonuses for making new threads.

If you want to do that with your own personal threads about your own things and adventures, fine. But something like a F1 race meeting has bits and pieces of information, videos, photos, data, tweets, ephemera/et cetera all over the web, so why not let everyone have a hand in building the thread?

Demanding the mods or the OP to change their post is a waste of time.
 
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So i was reading the lastest issue of F1 racing magazine and theres an interesting article about the lack of Italian drivers at the moment...

..for a country with such a deep and rich history in f1, there does seem to be a problem in geeting the younger Italian drivers through right now...lets not forget that Italy have held a grand prix in the calender at the same venue (pretty much) sinch 1950 and Ferrari have been part of f1 since the very start and Alfa Romeo and Maserati also had a big part to play in the early years..

..but the last Italian world champion was Albert Ascari in 1953!..
..the last Italian to win a grand prix was Giancarlo Fisichella at Malaysia in 2006..
..and the last Italian driver to score points was Vitantonio Luizzi at Korea in 2010...

..and there are NO italian driver in F1 this season

Can any of you guys guess why this is..i though it would be a good topic..
 
Good question, maybe new thread worthy?
 
Well i did think about setting up a thread on it..but i thought i would be better here, plus all the threads ive set up so far on various topics have had few replys..although this is a good topic.....
 
..and there are NO italian driver in F1 this season

Can any of you guys guess why this is..
I don't have to guess. I know why there are no Italian drivers in Formula 1.

There are twenty-four seats available in Formula 1. The twenty-four best drivers in the world fill those seats. None of those twenty-four drivers are Italian. Therefore, we can safely conclude that there are no Italian drivers who are good enough to compete in Formula 1. Even if you argued that drivers like Karthikeyan and Senna and Pic aren't good enough to be in Formula 1 and instead made a list of the top twnety-four drivers who would be in Formula 1 in a perfect world, it's unlikely that that list will feature any Italians. Right now, the best-placed Italian driver who stands a chance of making it into Formula 1 and being competitve is Raffaele Marciello, and he has a few years to go yet.

Italy might have been a aprt of the World Championship since 1950, and the nation might have a closer association with motorsport than any other country in the world, but that does not mean that Formula 1 owes Italy anything. Italian drivers have no more right to be in Formula 1 than any other driver of any other nationality. Teams are obligated to take the two best drivers available to them at any given time, and if neither of those drivers are Italian, then so be it. They can't be forced to pass on the driver who fits the team best and instead take the next-best alternative simply because the next-best alternative is Italian. Just look at Ferrari - when Jarno Trulli lost his seat this year, Ferrari were up in arms about the lack of Italian drivers on the grid. But they have displayed absolutely no inclination to take an Italian driver. There is contant talk that Felipe Massa's days at Maranello are numbered, and even though Ferrari has two Italian testing and reserve drivers (Fisichella and Rigon), the name that reoccurrs most often as Massa's potential replacement is Sergio Perez, a Mexican.

So if Ferrari, the most Italian team ever, is unwilling to take an Italian driver, why should any of the other teams be obligated to take Italians because they are Italians?
 
I don't have to guess. I know why there are no Italian drivers in Formula 1.

There are twenty-four seats available in Formula 1. The twenty-four best drivers in the world fill those seats. None of those twenty-four drivers are Italian. Therefore, we can safely conclude that there are no Italian drivers who are good enough to compete in Formula 1. Even if you argued that drivers like Karthikeyan and Senna and Pic aren't good enough to be in Formula 1 and instead made a list of the top twnety-four drivers who would be in Formula 1 in a perfect world, it's unlikely that that list will feature any Italians. Right now, the best-placed Italian driver who stands a chance of making it into Formula 1 and being competitve is Raffaele Marciello, and he has a few years to go yet.

I take isue with this in more ways than I can count Prisoner...Usually you are on top of these kinds of things.

You don't actually believe that the current 24 drivers are the 24 top drivers capable of driving an F1 car do you? So when Speed, Alguersuari, Liuzzi, Kubica, Buemi, Trulli all left F1 for various reasons there replacements are automatically better?

"The twenty four-best drivers in the world fill those seat"
Not sure if serious lol.
 
"The twenty four-best drivers in the world fill those seat"
Keep reading my post:
Even if you argued that drivers like Karthikeyan and Senna and Pic aren't good enough to be in Formula 1 and instead made a list of the top twnety-four drivers who would be in Formula 1 in a perfect world, it's unlikely that that list will feature any Italians.
Can you honestly tell me that you would include any Italians in this list of drivers? I sure as hell wouldn't include Jarno Trulli, and if Tonio Liuzzi made it onto my list, he'd be one of my very last picks/
 
Are there any Italian drivers in GP2?
 
Are there any Italian drivers in GP2?
There are four in GP2:

- Davide Valsecchi races for DAMS and is currently second overall, but he's in his fifth season. He's not expected to go any further.
- Fabio Onidi is in his first season, but he's out of a job at the end of the year because Coloni are leaving GP2 after an undisclosed dispute with the organisers and other teams.
- Luca Filippi was runner-up last year after some brilliant drives in the last few rounds, but it took him six full seasons to get there and he appears to be focusing on getting a drive in Indycar.
- Fabrizio Crestani raced for Lazarus until Spa (when he was repalced by Austrian Rene Binder), and he was rather slow (though he did score a point in the first race, which was an outstanding acheivement given that the team was a last-minute entry).

There are five more in GP3:

- Kevin Ceccon seems to be the best of the lot. He's picked up regular points for Ocean, who are not a regular points contender, and he won the AutoGP series last year, but he's got some stiff competition from other drivers.
- David Fumanelli races for the Mark Webber-Christian Horner joint effor, MW Arden. Arden have been title contenders this year, but Fuamnelli is probably the weakest of the three drivers in the team.
- Vicky Piria made headlines as the first female driver to join the series. She is yet to score a point.
- Antonio Spavone did four rounds with Trident, but failed to score any points, and has not raced since Silverstone.
- Giovanni Venturini was a last-minute stand-in at Trident, taking their third car, and even managed to score a podium in Germany, but looking at his previous race results, he is wildly inconsistent.
 
So if Ferrari, the most Italian team ever, is unwilling to take an Italian driver, why should any of the other teams be obligated to take Italians because they are Italians?

I sort of agree with this. Granted, of those twenty four drivers, there are those who seem out of their depth, the drivers for teams in the top half of the table are all massively talented in one way or another. If Ferrari really wanted an Italian driver on the roster, they would have one testing or in reserve. As it is... they don't even have a reserve...
 
I sort of agree with this. Granted, of those twenty four drivers, there are those who seem out of their depth, the drivers for teams in the top half of the table are all massively talented in one way or another. If Ferrari really wanted an Italian driver on the roster, they would have one testing or in reserve. As it is... they don't even have a reserve...

Ricciardo is probably the closest thing to an Italian on the grid, I'd like to see a young driver like him get a chance at Ferrari.
 
Ricciardo is probably the closest thing to an Italian on the grid, I'd like to see a young driver like him get a chance at Ferrari.
And you don't think Red Bull would have something to say about that?
 
The Saubers will be good. Perez will win.
 
Don't Torro Rosso usually place high in the Speed Traps at other tracks? Maybe they could have a half decent showing here?
 
And you don't think Red Bull would have something to say about that?

I doubt they will want him, Alguersuari and Buemi looked like 2 young drivers doing a decent job last year and they scrapped them. Calm down a bit. :lol:

Don't Torro Rosso usually place high in the Speed Traps at other tracks? Maybe they could have a half decent showing here?

I believe that was the case at the back end of last year but I'm not sure this season.

EDIT: I found this, I don't know where the speed trap was placed in Spa so I don't know if that was the actually top speed of the cars. Some of the drivers had higher downforce than others so I'm not sure if things will look the same in Monza when everyone has quite low downforce.
 
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I believe that was the case at the back end of last year but I'm not sure this season.

EDIT: I found this, I don't know where the speed trap was placed in Spa so I don't know if that was the actually top speed of the cars. Some of the drivers had higher downforce than others so I'm not sure if things will look the same in Monza when everyone has quite low downforce.

Vergne and Ricciardo 5&8 is reasonable but Redbull 1&2? That doesn't even make sense.
 
EDIT: I found this, I don't know where the speed trap was placed in Spa so I don't know if that was the actually top speed of the cars. Some of the drivers had higher downforce than others so I'm not sure if things will look the same in Monza when everyone has quite low downforce.
I believe the fastest at the end of the straight up to Les Combes was ~322km/h, and was definitely not a Red Bull.

310km/h, with the fastest from the Red Bull's could well be apex speed at Blanchimont, or similar.

EDIT: At the end of sector 1, up to Les Combes, Kamui recorded 327km/h, although the same page said that Massa was fastest through the speed trap (310km/h), whereever it was.

EDIT EDIT: The speed trap at Spa is on the exit of Eau Rouge.
 
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EDIT EDIT: The speed trap at Spa is on the exit of Eau Rouge.

That makes sense. The redbull having the most grip would carry a bit more speed through Eau Rouge, thus showing higher at that speed trap.
 
Here's hoping Alonso gets 11th or worse and Vettel gets 1st.
 
Amen to that!
 
That makes sense. The redbull having the most grip would carry a bit more speed through Eau Rouge, thus showing higher at that speed trap.

They didn't have the most grip, but they accelerated faster down the straight to Eau Rogue because of low gear ratio.
 
Here's hoping Alonso gets 11th or worse and Vettel gets 1st.

I highly doubt that will happen, given the speed differences between the Renault and Ferrari engine.
 
I cannot wait for the drivers press confrence in 25 minutes, the line up is Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, d'Ambrosio, Massa and Ricciardo.

With Hamilton linked to Mercedes and the 1st corner crash at Spa still in the news, could get very interesting.
 
I cannot wait for the drivers press confrence in 25 minutes, the line up is Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, d'Ambrosio, Massa and Ricciardo.

With Hamilton linked to Mercedes and the 1st corner crash at Spa still in the news, could get very interesting.

Where can I watch this?

Edit: Nevermind, fund it.
 
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neljack
I cannot wait for the drivers press confrence in 25 minutes, the line up is Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, d'Ambrosio, Massa and Ricciardo.

With Hamilton linked to Mercedes and the 1st corner crash at Spa still in the news, could get very interesting.

Wow thanks, completely forgot. Only missed a couple minutes. Love watching these things.
 
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