2014 Nurburgring 24 hour, VLN series 7/12 teams signed up

  • Thread starter Thread starter memto89
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I totally agree, it's great to see guys develop. I've had the same experience, before GTP I knew a little about car set-up, but generally had to stick to the cars I felt comfortable with.
Since having Memto around, I've learned so much more about set-up, having to get that extra pace from the car; but not only that, the same stuff that Nin alluded to. Driving within and outside myself, GT5's infuriating pit-stop time and how it affects strategy, stewarding helping me to better understand race-craft, and more recently the psychological side.
I'd love to be in the company of a group of strong racers, especially since for S3 it seems unlikely I'll have quite so much time to spend on GT, I'll need some other people to take points away from Matt ;)
 
jonnyb1990
Yes, I noticed that, I remember doing that a few times in an LMP race we did around here previously.

Can I please have an incident report via PM from all drivers in room 1, if you have nothing to report please simply write 'clean race'
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Sorry, haven't been on GTP in the past day to check the thread. Will send tonight.
 
Message to the Corvette Drivers in Lobby 2 (Davidb and Tati). For the next race, please could your teams decide on paint colours and race numbers because for the Deep Forest round both David and Tati were in almost identical Corvettes (OK, ZR1 and Z06) and both were orange and running race number 1.

Mic's been running his TG car in Orange from the start of the series so perhaps T2.6K could for something else (if you can convince Dutchman Cobani to reign in his Nationalistic love of Orange for the last two races) :).

Davidb's cars in 3 rounds have thus far have been Yellow, Lilac and Orange. Obviously you get bored easy mate! :)
 
To be clear, the Z06 is running 'Monaco' Orange :p


I believe originally the ZR1 team had selected Yellow (the official Team Corvette colors). But i guess that choice was made by MichoRexo who subsequently dropped out of that team :crazy:

so what's my point? none i guess.
 
micantony
To be clear, the Z06 is running 'Monaco' Orange :p


I believe originally the ZR1 team had selected Yellow (the official Team Corvette colors). But i guess that choice was made by MichoRexo who subsequently dropped out of that team :crazy:

so what's my point? none i guess.
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Haha! Actually, I didn't have the Monaco chip, but I picked an orange from the Chevy chips I did have to try and match it closely. I will run number 11 from now on though, because I'm number 1 twice.
 
While we're talking about numbers, I saw that jonny had number 19 on the lotus as well ^^ thought you said 19 was free for me to take? :P
 
memto89
Lol also the wrong colour as well.... Oh dear ccr is falling apart :p
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Is there hope for the rest of us as CCR begins to accrue penalties due to administrative and organizational mistakes? A few improperly labeled tires here, an illegal modification there, and we might have a chance! Where is Adam to spin this into an over exaggerated story of a team's demise? Where is the dramatic write-up about discord in the paddocks and contracts being put under early review?
 
Phouchg
While we're talking about numbers, I saw that jonny had number 19 on the lotus as well ^^ thought you said 19 was free for me to take? :P
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I did, I've switched to #12 from now on (I think that's free). I had meant to change it for last round but didn't go near my PS3 for a week or so and completely forgot until I had arrived ready for spec'ing.

I also seem to remember discovering the Elise is a quarter-inch too narrow and ran with an illegal catalytic converter... Can't think of any other stupid DQ's in history heh
 
I think I also saw someone pouring water in to the pocket of jonnys racing suit ahead of the weigh in.. DQ!

Edit: A question, which of the teams are Pro? Couldn't find it in the OP and it's nice to know who you're competing against. :)
 
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We need scrutineering to make sure everybody has the correct team colours and numbers :P

Phouchg
A question, which of the teams are Pro? Couldn't find it in the OP and it's nice to know who you're competing against. :)
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Pro teams are teams that are planning to compete in the actual 24 Hour race, Casual teams are here to help build the numbers and to add some competition and to just enjoy racing.

Check the OP and see the list of teams, I believe those that are confirmed will be racing in the N24, I won't be, but I think most are racing.
 
Ninners
Pro teams are teams that are planning to compete in the actual 24 Hour race, Casual teams are here to help build the numbers and to add some competition and to just enjoy racing.

Check the OP and see the list of teams, I believe those that are confirmed will be racing in the N24, I won't be, but I think most are racing.
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I know what Pro teams are, I just wondered which are Pro teams. :) So the ones with "confirmed" after them are the ones going to the ring in February? That would be everyone except your team and Team Georgia?
 
Phouchg
I know what Pro teams are, I just wondered which are Pro teams. :) So the ones with "confirmed" after them are the ones going to the ring in February? That would be everyone except your team and Team Georgia?
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I think so, not sure if TG are going to make it though.
 
Stewards: Memto89 Jonnyb1990 Gadget334

5 secs for 'minor' pit lane infringement,
30 secs for blue flag blocking, 4 corners or more,
30 secs for damage contact,
30 seconds for completely abusing pit lane exit (touching/exceeding with all 4 wheels

Room 1 report:

Warm up lap – jonnyb1990 - GTPL_lucas: Contact
Verdict: - warning
Be careful on warm up laps as people can be accelerating and braking to warm up tyres.

Lap 7 – play117 – xNikodemusx: Contact
Verdict: 30 secs
Warning note: play lifts off after contact, and does not gain track position. However he does this right in front of I-was-ere, hindering i-was-ere too and stopping himself from losing a position. XNikodemusx drives away from play and confirmation from xNikodemusx shows he didn't take damage.

Lap 11 - i-was-ere - xNikodemusx: light contact, no damage
Verdict: NFA
I-was-ere has taken the inside line, however the wide line XNikodemusx is on can be faster. XNikodemusx has to understand that he puts himself at risk of being pushed wide in this position.

Lap 15 - i-was-ere: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs

Lap 40 – Micantony: pit out line all 4 wheels
Verdict: 30 secs


Lap 49 - i-was-ere: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs


Lap 51 – cobani: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs


Lap 72 – cobani: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs


Lap 73 - xNikodemusx: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs


Finishing order:

jonny 96L - 1h58:23.640
Micantony 94L - 1h58:27.569 (+30)
i-was-ere 94L - 1h58:38.161 +10.594 (+10)
xNikodemusx 94L - 1h58:39.023 (+5)
lucas 94L - 1h59:20.953
play 93L - 1h58:26.796 interval
cobani 84L - 1h58:23.640 (+5)
nin - unclassified


Room 2 report:

Lap 26 – the proffs: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs

Lap 29 – eDirtyTati – Davidb: contact
Verdict: NFA
Tati runs wide into T1, David gets inside and is ahead into the T2 left kink but Tati either doesn’t see, or else squeezes David and there is contact with Tatis’ front left and Davids right/rear, but no damage to either.

Lap 31 – eDirtyTati: ignoring blue flags
Verdict: 30 secs
Going into turn 1 you have an incident when a leader is coming through to lap you. After this incident you should have moved over as you.

Lap 34 – WIDFO: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs


Lap 36 – duke_adams: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs


Lap 50 – eDirtyTati: pit out line
Verdict: 5 secs

Lap 77 – Pluxtheduck: Driving standards
Verdict: warning
When a faster car is lapping you, do not fight back in such a way that results in contact. I understand trying stay on the lead lap, but you were passed by that point.


Finishing order:

Memto89 96L – 1:58:03.851
Pluxtheduck 95L – 1:58:33.164
Duke_adam46 94L – 1:58:26.875 (+5)
Davidb_165 93L – 1:58:21.952
The_proffs 93L – 1:58:42.290 (+5)
WIDFO 92L – 1:59.00.524 (+5)
Revetion 92L – 1:59:11.152
eDirtyTati 92L – 1:59:24.749 (+65)
the-burre 91L – 1:58:51.799


Finishing order with penalties applied.
Lobby 1:
1. jonny
2. xNikodemusx
3. i-was-ere
4. Micantony
5. lucas
6. play
7. cobani
8. nin DNF

Lobby 2:
1. Memto89
2. Pluxtheduck
3. Duke_adam46
4. Davidb_165
5. The_proffs
6. WIDFO
7. Revetion
8. eDirtyTati
9. the-burre
 
BT are going to pay for the dreaded connection failures, as I was looking good for a top 3 finish there, I was ahead of i-was-ere after my 1st stop and Niko too, shame my connection had to take away a chance of atleast 6 points, positive thing is that Adam brought home a podium so I'm happy with that :)

But we still showed good pace and we can try get the 2 results at Autumn Ring
 
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You are going to have to show where in the rules those penalties are spelled out for the series.
I was part of the organizing and rules committee and don't recall those being listed or discussed.
I have also reread the initial rules posts copied here on GTP and don't see them anywhere. I went through the entire organizing committee thread over at CRAP as well.

No way am I going to bust my ass practicing all week and then doing everything i can in a race to work my way to 2nd place, just to have some ticky-tack, BS, meaningless pit lane violation drop me to 4th without a protest.
 
memto89
Drivers Brief

img.php


Track: Deep forest
Laps: 95+pace lap
Weather: Sunny

+) Pit in, The pit in will be a full speed entry, it is not safe to enter the pits while trying to keep within the white line.

+) Pit out, will be monitored and exiting over the white line will result in a penalty.

+) Stewarding, although not followed through with in the first 2 races, deep forest will be stewarded after the race by a team of people.

+) Driving with damage, It is easy to get damage around deep forest, please make sure that you keep well out the way when you make your way back to the pits.

+) Lapping, This has been an issue for the first 2 races with lapping traffic, the rules are the same as real life. If the leader has caught you on the track move over and let them through, do not fight back as you may cause an incident.
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Seems pretty clear cut Mic...
 
5 secs for 'minor' pit lane infringement,
30 secs for blue flag blocking, 4 corners or more,
30 secs for damage contact,
30 seconds for completely abusing pit lane exit (touching/exceeding with all 4 wheels

+) Pit out, will be monitored and exiting over the white line will result in a penalty.


I'm not going to spend any time arguing with you just making up the rules as you go along with this series, but the above two items do not appear to be "clear cut"

You are going to penalize someone 30 seconds for accidentally driving out onto the track because their wheel was pointed the wrong way when the game gave control back from the autodrive through the pits, that had ZERO impact on the race or any other cars?

I understand memto does it that way in the WEC, but those types of penalties were never a part of this series. I don't know when you guys decided amongst yourselves to add them. Sorry, but this penalty is a joke and to take my race away from me like that is quite weak on your parts.

I hope you reconsider until you can properly include the penalties in the rules of the series on the first post and ensure everyone is aware of them in detail who is participating. I think a warning for my violation would be the proper step, with a notice that the next time it occurs it comes with a 30 second penalty is more appropriate in the spirit of what this event is supposed to be.

-Mic
 
Don't know if I should get involved in this considering it was me who gained the most from it.. but this was in the drivers brief for the last race

Penalties

Standard CRAP rules apply in as much as you need to keep at least two wheels on the track or red/white kerbing at all times. Penalties may be applied in post race replay scrutineering for any instances of abusing this. However we have discussed the following and these are turns that will be particularly scrutinised:-

the Concrete at T8 = illegal.
the Concrete at T14 (coming out of the second tunnel?) = ok. We see no reason you can't run wide there if i have the turn correct.
the Concrete at T?? (coming out of the chicane a couple corners after the final tunnel) = illegal - 2 tyres on curb at least.

Basically if you run off track and are deemed to have gained an advantage from it you are likely to get a penalty. If you run off track by mistake, and want to ensure no chance of a penalty, briefly lift off the throttle, lose a few seconds and then get back on it again to show the stewards you recognise your error.

Crossing the yellow pit lane exit line on the approach to Turn 1 (or Turn 2 if you count the 'kink) will be an automatic 30 secs penalty.

For pit lane entry, you can ignore the broken yellow pit lane marker, but you must be in lane before the solid pit entry lane starts. On the ground of safety, if cars are behind you please do not swerve over violently at the last minute. Make clear to the driver behind that you intend pitting by adopting a tighter line through the final corner.
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I also had a memory of someone saying in the crap-thread after last race that there would be no penalties after that race due to so many doing it and it kind of cancelled out itself or something. But that they would be hard on penalties in the next race (this one). But I can't find it now.. so i don't know where that was written.
 
Phouchg
Don't know if I should get involved in this considering it was me who gained the most from it.. but this was in the drivers brief for the last race

I also had a memory of someone saying in the crap-thread after last race that there would be no penalties after that race due to so many doing it and it kind of cancelled out itself or something. But that they would be hard on penalties in the next race (this one). But I can't find it now.. so i don't know where that was written.
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The entire N24 section on the CRAP forum is for staff only to access now, Mic can see it on CRAP as he is staff.

The reference to pit blend line exit in your quote there phouchg does not specify the amount of tyres required for a 30 second penalty.
 
Mic - Jonny, Matt and I did discuss the severity of pit lane infringements and agreed that accidentally touching the line with outside wheels should be an infringement but not penalised severely because sometimes the AI does throw you out at some strange angles. This type of infringement attracts a nominal 5 secs penalty, and several drivers suffered from this. Your 30 secs penalty was for blatantly driving completely outside the pit lines (all 4 wheels outside) and was a repeat of what you did on one of your stops at Monza, which for that one went un penalised.

Also I know this series originated on CRAP, but even on CRAP HP posted his '10 CRAP Commandments" as long ago as 10th September, so I'm sure you must have read and agreed with those. They included:-

I give you THE 10 CRAP COMMANDMENTS!!

7. Breaching the pit blend line is prohibited, if you cross it and make no attempt to return to the pit lane it will be penalised*

8. Dive-bombing and ramming are strictly prohibited.*

9. The stewards ruling is final and must be respected, failing to accept a decision and making a public issue of it will result in a 30 second penalty for your next race where you will qualify but must attend the pits at the end of lap one.**

So we'd request you accept the penalty, learn from it and ensure it doesn't happen again.

I know it can be tricky to adhere to but in the Room 2 race that I stewarded, there were a total of 56 pit stops, 52 were perfect and 4 were 'minor' offences, so it is definately possible to do cleanly.
 
Gadget334
Mic - Jonny, Matt and I did discuss the severity of pit lane infringements and agreed that accidentally touching the line with outside wheels should be an infringement but not penalised severely because sometimes the AI does throw you out at some strange angles. This type of infringement attracts a nominal 5 secs penalty, and several drivers suffered from this. Your 30 secs penalty was for blatantly driving completely outside the pit lines (all 4 wheels outside) and was a repeat of what you did on one of your stops at Monza, which for that one went un penalised.

Also I know this series originated on CRAP, but even on CRAP HP posted his '10 CRAP Commandments" as long ago as 10th September, so I'm sure you must have read and agreed with those. They included:-

I give you THE 10 CRAP COMMANDMENTS!!

7. Breaching the pit blend line is prohibited, if you cross it and make no attempt to return to the pit lane it will be penalised*

8. Dive-bombing and ramming are strictly prohibited.*

9. The stewards ruling is final and must be respected, failing to accept a decision and making a public issue of it will result in a 30 second penalty for your next race where you will qualify but must attend the pits at the end of lap one.**

So we'd request you accept the penalty, learn from it and ensure it doesn't happen again.

I know it can be tricky to adhere to but in the Room 2 race that I stewarded, there were a total of 56 pit stops, 52 were perfect and 4 were 'minor' offences, so it is definately possible to do cleanly.
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Respectfully Steve, those rules have no relevance here and I did not provide you with permission for them to be used anywhere.

Have you not seen the copyright that is in massive letters on the bottom of the CRAP forum? I allowed the previous pasting of content as it was relevant, this is not as it pertains ONLY to CRAP enduros.

This is off topic enough and I will deal with it on the CRAP forum, to topic:

My opinion will clearly mean two tenths of 🤬 all in this thread but I will say this: Mic is right in that all penalties should be listed in the OP of the series for all to see. If they are not then they should be added for fairness to all involved AND to prevent the organisers (of any series) from having to deal with such issues, it's a self benefiting action that saves time and prevents potential 🤬 storms...
 
HP this is not an issue to be taken up in the public eye, please take it to PM!
 
memto89
HP this is not an issue to be taken up in the public eye, please take it to PM!
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Using my material on another website will be responded to in the thread that it was placed, I won't shield it from public view when the material was used publicly in the first instance. Like I said clearly already I will deal with it on the CRAP forum which is appropriate.

The rest of my post was on topic and followed up another member opining on rules as well, can we not discuss same publicly at all? It would be best if we all had a clear ruling on that, if we cannot opine on rules maybe implementing a 30 second penalty for infractions would put an end to it.
 
Ok. Now this is just getting childish. I'm going to say some things here, but they will not be meant to offend. Please do not take offense or get defensive. I respect all of you and think you're a remarkable group of guys.

In regards to Micantony's penalty: He's right. It was in the driver brief, but not in the OP. If someone were to miss the brief or log into the forum when a new page has been added to the thread, it's easy to miss a brief like that. I suggest that from now on it be added to the OP before each race. Any rules that accrue penalties should also be in the OP.

That being said. Mic, I totally understand your frustration here. You drove fantastically and ended up getting two positions and the podium taken from you by a stiff penalty. You have every right to seek clarification on the penalty and protest it if you disagree. However, there is a much better way you could have approached this situation. Memto stated in the stewards' report who the stewards were. A respectful PM to any or all of them is the proper way to protest a penalty. There the issue can be discussed and if they overturn the penalty an amendment to the stewards' report and/or rules can be publicly posted on this thread. I consider it embarrassing to this series and those of us in it if any new interests or other forum members have come in and read this debate. Actually, it's probably happened, since each new post essentially bumps this thread to the top of the Race Series section.

Gadget: I get what you were trying to do there, but CRAP general rules can't be used as justification for penalties here as the series has been moved from CRAP and we now have teams racing that were never a part of CRAP.

HP Steve posting rules from CRAP do not violate your copyright in any way. They are clearly cited as a quote and credit was given for where they came from. In any case, I think he only brought them up because Mic brought up that these rules were not in effect when it was a CRAP race.

To everyone: I don't expect that this series be run as a complete free-for-all without rules and regulations. The rules are not there to make the racing harder, they are there to make it fair and clean. Sure it's not real life, but it's the closest thing we've got as I'm sure that most of us can't just toss out a few million to run a GT3 race campaign. The great thing about the Gt5 community is that you have options for what type of racing you wish to enjoy. If you as an online racer are not ok with having rules or just wish to have some casual fun, there are hundreds, if not thousands of shuffle races run in the open lobby every day.
 
jonnyb1990
I did, I've switched to #12 from now on (I think that's free). I had meant to change it for last round but didn't go near my PS3 for a week or so and completely forgot until I had arrived ready for spec'ing.

I also seem to remember discovering the Elise is a quarter-inch too narrow and ran with an illegal catalytic converter... Can't think of any other stupid DQ's in history heh
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aren't all cars spec'd with maximum tuning parts to prevent policing of such minuscule objects?
 
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