2015 Dodge Challenger

[psntomaz]

Except none of that has anything to do with this car.

It gets more power. So what.

Both the Camaro and Mustang have gotten much lighter, both now have IRS as standard, with absolutely ridiculous power outputs, several facelifts and overall improvements.

The Challenger has nothing to show for it.

Did I not say the 15 challenger will be shown this spring?

• Challenger gets a Big update this year (2015 MY) with the launch of the 6.2L SC, inclusion of the 8spd, brand new interior, and updated front and rear fascia also with updated suspension

With a totally new interior, facelift, New trim level, platform moved to the "LA" platform, revised suspension, New motor option.? That's more than enough for this generation of the challenger before the next gen comes.

 

[Slash]

Did I not say the 15 challenger will be shown this spring?


With a totally new interior, facelift, New trim level, platform moved to the "LA" platform, revised suspension, New motor option.? That's more than enough for this generation of the challenger before the next gen comes.

The point is, it should have been updated 5 years ago. Not now.

As always, waiting for Chrysler to catch up :/

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It gets more power. So what.

That was enough to get the press going crazy for the GT500 two years ago...

Both the Camaro and Mustang have gotten much lighter

Not really; to my knowledge, we don't have a solid weight number down for the new Mustang, but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a double-digit weight-loss from the last model. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's heavier now.

The Camaro's still a lard-arse considering it's size; only the Z28 has any sort of weight savings, and that thing's a track toy (and 75k).

both now have IRS as standard

The Challenger's always had that. It took Ford until now to make it standard. As always, waiting for Ford to catch up

with absolutely ridiculous power outputs, several facelifts and overall improvements.

The Challenger has nothing to show for it.

One light facelift a few years ago with the 6.4L, and all signs point to a pretty heavy upgrade this year. All in all, par for the course in terms of upgrades - not quite to Ford's yearly improvement plan, but not that different from the Camaro's.

Not that I'm a huge Challenger fan - I really don't think Chrysler wants to court the same sort of buyers that the Mustang and Camaro fight over - but it's worth pointing out.

 

[psntomaz]

The point is, it should have been updated 5 years ago. Not now.

As always, waiting for Chrysler to catch up :/

The car has been updated in 2011 with the 6.4 and 3.6L. 2013 a slightly updated interior with a new color (Radar Red Leather) came and new Exterior colors for 2014 (Header Orange and Plum Crazy coming back). The only thing Chrysler needs to "Catch up" is with performance (SRT), Sales figures speaks for itself.

 

[Slash]

That was enough to get the press going crazy for the GT500 two years ago...

True, but at the time, it was rather ridiculous considering the other two didn't really have much else out at the time that could compare (at least for the pony market).

Not really; to my knowledge, we don't have a solid weight number down for the new Mustang, but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a double-digit weight-loss from the last model. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's heavier now.

The Camaro's still a lard-arse considering it's size; only the Z28 has any sort of weight savings, and that thing's a track toy (and 75k).

Well, to be honest they all are pigs in the weigh department I'm just saying as a whole, the Camaro and Mustang have generally been the lighter of the 3.

The Challenger's always had that. It took Ford until now to make it standard. As always, waiting for Ford to catch up

Who started this Pony war (for the second time)?

One light facelift a few years ago with the 6.4L, and all signs point to a pretty heavy upgrade this year. All in all, par for the course in terms of upgrades - not quite to Ford's yearly improvement plan, but not that different from the Camaro's.

Don't get me wrong, it's great what they are doing, it's just taking longer than I think it should.

The car has been updated in 2011 with the 6.4 and 3.6L. 2013 a slightly updated interior with a new color (Radar Red Leather) came and new Exterior colors for 2014 (Header Orange and Plum Crazy coming back). The only thing Chrysler needs to "Catch up" is with performance (SRT), Sales figures speaks for itself.

Then they should get on that. Because as of right now, the car as got nothing on the other's twos performance.

 

[Tornado]

Except none of that has anything to do with this car.

It gets more power. So what.

Both the Camaro and Mustang have gotten much lighter, both now have IRS as standard, with absolutely ridiculous power outputs, several facelifts and overall improvements.

The Challenger has nothing to show for it.

About the only thing Chevrolet has done with the bread and butter Camaro is put Prelude taillights on it. Otherwise the lions share of the upgrades have gone into limited edition, limited market appeal models.

Facts in Order.

• Dart had its "update" for 2014 with the 2.4L being the volume motor with a restructuring of the entire line up (no more "Ralley" trim)
• Durango got its Cosmetic and Mechanical update in the winter.
• Ram has had their update all throughout the fall-winter with the Pentastar/8spd, Diesel 1500, 6.4L standard in HD's and Now just this month, 3.6 Available in Higher trim 1500.
• Launch of the Renegade
• Launch of the New 200
• Challenger gets a Big update this year (2015 MY) with the launch of the 6.2L SC, inclusion of the 8spd, brand new interior, and updated front and rear fascia also with updated suspension
• Charger gets a very mild cosmetic update with a big mechanical update (8spds all around) after Challengers this year (2015MY). Rumor has it that it will get new sheetmetal.
• 300's Update comes after Chargers, not much of a update (Interior)

I do like how your arguments always tend to be "say pretty much the same thing as the other person, but claim it means something different when you say it."

 

[Slash]

About the only thing Chevrolet has done with the bread and butter Camaro is put Prelude taillights on it. Otherwise the lions share of the upgrades

Other than several new models, various "areo" and power upgrades here and there.

The Challenger has pretty much looked as blank as it has since it has come out, with several small exceptions.


I'm not at all saying it's a bad thing...the car looks great. In fact I think it looks fantastic. It's just time to do something new. The car has been nearly identical to itself for almost 7 model years.

 

[McLaren]

Typical Dodge approach to this car. "It's falling behind the Camaro & Mustang again, quick, throw more power on it."

They need something like the Z/28 / Boss 302 that can actually appeal to track junkies, or hell, since they're dead set on just giving it more power, build a Copo/Cobra Jet competitor for the drag heads. Just do something else.

 

[Zenith]

Who would've guessed the guy with two Dodges in his profile picture might be a bit biased towards Chrysler...

The car has been updated in 2011 with the 6.4 and 3.6L. 2013 a slightly updated interior with a new color (Radar Red Leather) came and new Exterior colors for 2014 (Header Orange and Plum Crazy coming back). The only thing Chrysler needs to "Catch up" is with performance (SRT), Sales figures speaks for itself.

Yes, the Challenger is getting spanked.

Although Ford and GM have made incremental improvements to their pony cars, it's worth noting that the Challenger began so far inferior to both of its competitors that Dodge needed to step up their game and make it a competitive car. It's been clear since 2010 or earlier that the Dodge was too heavy, to high, too bulky, and too poorly tuned to stand a chance against the Mustang and Camaro. Dodge hasn't gotten around to meaningful improvements, so the Challenger still sucks compared to the other two.

If we want to talk sales figures for other cars, look at the Dart. Everybody is disappointed in that car, even Chrysler. You can regurgitate the press releases from Chrysler all you'd like, but the fact that they're getting stomped by the competition remains.

 

[Tornado]

Other than several new models, various "areo" and power upgrades here and there.

A new model isn't the same thing as improving the entire model range. No one is going to care that they can buy a Corvette Z06 except it weighs 600 pounds more and is 20 grand more expensive than a faster model already sold when the car they were looking at was the moderately equipped V6 model that hasn't gotten any of those cool things; which is where the huge majority of the sales are and have always been. Ford has done a lot to chase that market every couple years since the 1990s while dramatically improving the car as a whole rather than just specific versions, whereas the normal Camaros are largely the same as when new. The Camaro isn't as bad as the Challenger has been in updating it's problems, nor are its problems as notable to begin with since the car was always better than the Challenger anyway; but GM hasn't said anything substantial about a next car just as Chrysler has been constantly waffling over what the Challenger will become. And the new Mustang is already here.


That's the same lack of foresight that got the Camaro/Firebird killed off in 2002 (and the Challenger/Barracuda killed off in 1974), because no one then cared that the Camaro then was just as fast as the Corvette for only 2/3 the money when you got the best one when the base model hadn't improved at all since 1995.

Last I checked, we live in 2014, not 1970. Heck last I checked there isn't a Barracuda to speak of. Come on.

And for that matter, last I checked, the Challenger very blatantly competed with the Mustang and Camaro even in 1970. They didn't accidentally enter the car in Trans Am; or give it all of the same engine and performance package equivalents to the Barracuda (which themselves all had direct Mustang and Camaro equivalents) as a goof.

The only thing Chrysler needs to "Catch up" is with performance (SRT), Sales figures speaks for itself.

The Mustang's worst year in the past 5 was 66,000 cars, which was the final year before the car was refreshed. It's averaged ~75,000 a year since. The Camaro's worst year was its first year, where it sold 61,000. It's averaged ~80,000 a year since.


The Challenger's best year was it's third, where it just crested 57,000 (Mustang: 73,000; Camaro 80,000), but otherwise has slummed around half of the other two at best.

 

[psntomaz]

A new model isn't the same thing as improving the entire model range. No one is going to care that they can buy a Corvette Z06 except it weighs 600 pounds more and is 20 grand more expensive than a faster model already sold when the car they were looking at was the moderately equipped V6 model that hasn't gotten any of those cool things; which is where the huge majority of the sales are and have always been. Ford has done a lot to chase that market every couple years since the 1990s while dramatically improving the car as a whole rather than just specific versions, whereas the normal Camaros are largely the same as when new. The Camaro isn't as bad as the Challenger has been in updating it's problems, nor are its problems as notable to begin with since the car was always better than the Challenger anyway; but GM hasn't said anything substantial about a next car just as Chrysler has been constantly waffling over what the Challenger will become. And the new Mustang is already here.


That's the same lack of foresight that got the Camaro/Firebird killed off in 2002 (and the Challenger/Barracuda killed off in 1974), because no one then cared that the Camaro then was just as fast as the Corvette for only 2/3 the money when you got the best one when the base model hadn't improved at all since 1995.


And for that matter, last I checked, the Challenger very blatantly competed with the Mustang and Camaro even in 1970. They didn't accidentally enter the car in Trans Am; or give it all of the same engine and performance package equivalents to the Barracuda (which themselves all had direct Mustang and Camaro equivalents) as a goof.


The Mustang's worst year in the past 5 was 66,000 cars, which was the final year before the car was refreshed. It's averaged ~75,000 a year since. The Camaro's worst year was its first year, where it sold 61,000. It's averaged ~80,000 a year since.


The Challenger's best year was it's third, where it just crested 57,000 (Mustang: 73,000; Camaro 80,000), but otherwise has slummed around half of the other two at best.

wasnt really talking about sales as in Volumes because Chrysler has a Capacity issue (cant make enough to sell in large volumes), was going by Year to year increases.

 

[psntomaz]

Who would've guessed the guy with two Dodges in his profile picture might be a bit biased towards Chrysler...

Its a Dodge and a Plymouth....

Yes, the Challenger is getting spanked.

Although Ford and GM have made incremental improvements to their pony cars, it's worth noting that the Challenger began so far inferior to both of its competitors that Dodge needed to step up their game and make it a competitive car. It's been clear since 2010 or earlier that the Dodge was too heavy, to high, too bulky, and too poorly tuned to stand a chance against the Mustang and Camaro. Dodge hasn't gotten around to meaningful improvements, so the Challenger still sucks compared to the other two.

If we want to talk sales figures for other cars, look at the Dart. Everybody is disappointed in that car, even Chrysler. You can regurgitate the press releases from Chrysler all you'd like, but the fact that they're getting stomped by the competition remains.

Whats the point in bringing up the Dart when i was talking about Challenger Sales?? talk about Throwing a gun when your out of bullets.

 

[Zenith]

Whats the point in bringing up the Dart when i was talking about Challenger Sales?? your Throwing your gun when your out of bullets there.

Since I guess we're going that thing where we don't respond to the majority of the post and zeroing in on tiny details... Nice grammar. One step above "ur".

The Dart is yet another example of Chrysler failing to read the market.

It's related to the Challenger because like the Challenger, it could have been great.

Like the Challenger Chrysler had every opportunity to make it competitive.

And finally, like the Challenger, the Dart is miles behind the competition.

This Hellcat version of the Challenger isn't going to help the model. Unless Dodge can chop significant weight, and maybe learn to tune a suspension system, the Challenger is going to stay the crappy third choice regardless of how much power they throw into it.

You can claim that my "gun" is out of rounds, but it's widely accepted and has been shown in multiple tests that your pet car is inferior. You haven't been able to respond to this.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

wasnt really talking about sales as in Volumes because Chrysler has a Capacity issue (cant make enough to sell in large volumes), was going by Year to year increases.

Do you really believe that BS? Look I come from a Chevy and Mopar upbringing but even I can be an authentic fan rather than a blind loyalist. Actually give some reasoning why this will supposedly help the challenger and dodge brand

 

[Slash]

Whats the point in bringing up the Dart when i was talking about Challenger Sales?? talk about Throwing a gun when your out of bullets.

You are proving yourself to be a blind fanboy real fast.

And I thought I was bad.

 

[VXR]

The Challenger appears to be a stagnant product to my eyes. Too faithful to the original in style, bulky and the interior looks depressing from this side of the Atlantic. The Camaro and especially the Mustang have had that regular ' hey here's a new version' hype whilst the Challenger got the 392 but only a new grille to show for it. With the biggest body and blank canvas, they should have been coming out with eye catching trim packages at the very least.

Of course I don't keep a close eye on it as I'm in the UK, but it doesn't promote itself like the other two do.

 

[psntomaz]

The Challenger appears to be a stagnant product to my eyes. Too faithful to the original in style, bulky and the interior looks depressing from this side of the Atlantic. The Camaro and especially the Mustang have had that regular ' hey here's a new version' hype whilst the Challenger got the 392 but only a new grille to show for it. With the biggest body and blank canvas, they should have been coming out with eye catching trim packages at the very least.

Of course I don't keep a close eye on it as I'm in the UK, but it doesn't promote itself like the other two do.

SRT yellow Jacket

Challenger R/T "classic"

Challenger red line R/T

molar 14 challenger

Challenger 2014 Shaker editon

 

[Zenith]

Those trim packages are exactly the problem. Nobody besides 50 year old Mopar fanatics care if you have a Shaker hood. People care if your car can drive.

Chrysler has spent all their time marketing to their loyal customers. Everybody who isn't a brainless fan boy can see that these "special" editions don't actually make the car any more capable like the ZL1 or BOSS 302 did to their respective platforms.

 

[YSSMAN]

Not really; to my knowledge, we don't have a solid weight number down for the new Mustang, but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a double-digit weight-loss from the last model. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's heavier now.

The Camaro's still a lard-arse considering it's size; only the Z28 has any sort of weight savings, and that thing's a track toy (and 75k).

I thought the implication was that the new Mustang was less than the current one, itself already floating around 3600lbs, 400lbs less than the current Camaro, and about 500lbs less than the Challenger. Given that the Camaro is supposed to be based on the ATS' Alpha chassis, I thought they were talking about weight ranges somewhere around 3400-3600lbs.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

SRT yellow Jacket

Challenger R/T "classic"

Challenger red line R/T

molar 14 challenger

Challenger 2014 Shaker editon

What's the point to all these? We don't live in the 60s any more and such trim options up the wazoo are superfluous. Does Dodge/Chrysler even know what the hell a focus group is?

 

[Johnny1996]

I want to see the Hellcat badly. And i'd also like to see a Challenger built to go up against the COPO Camaro and Cobra Jet 428.

 

[Tornado]

Challenger red line R/T

Realistically I have to wonder how many people were really on the fence about buying a Challenger; and then "What do you mean I can't get an A-Team Van Camaro?"

 

[Mac K]

Okay, 650 Horsepower is great but is that all? Does it weigh less? Is the engine "better"? Has the suspension been improved? Can it hold its own against the ZL1/Z28 Camaro and Boss/GT500 Mustang? It just seems like Chrysler went old school and just upped the power and hoped for the best.. The Camaro and Mustang might be over 150 horsepower down on it, but I would have no problem sleeping at night despite that.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I want to see the Hellcat badly. And i'd also like to see a Challenger built to go up against the COPO Camaro and Cobra Jet 428.

I'm guessing you don't know your dodge products (who can blame you since they have too many of the thing) but they do have one and have had one for a while. The Drag Pak Challenger and actually the Copo came last as a customer request drag ready package car.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

They should've followed GM's example (Camaro Z/28) and make it lighter. Throwing more power is only good for straights.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They should've followed GM's example (Camaro Z/28) and make it lighter. Throwing more power is only good for straights.

That wasn't GM's example...GM instead went for the ZL1 and then the Z/28 also if Dodge wants to be historical like it's other two counterparts then it needs to make a T/A version and not the Hellcat only. None of the challenger variations are track quality on any level with a 302 or Z/28.

 

[YSSMAN]

For some reason I thought that Chrysler had done a T/A package as a "Hey, remember this?" sort of thing, but it appears that I was fairly wrong. But, holy cow, way too many trim levels and packages on this car. The Wikipedia page is astounding detailed on each. Guess those Mopar guys need to like something...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

For some reason I thought that Chrysler had done a T/A package as a "Hey, remember this?" sort of thing, but it appears that I was fairly wrong. But, holy cow, way too many trim levels and packages on this car. The Wikipedia page is astounding detailed on each. Guess those Mopar guys need to like something...

Yeah I guess, but as one I don't care for them. I'd be happy with the base model then the 392 SRT and between that the T/A and then something high end like a 426 or a supercharged version of the 392. But the many variations on the challenger is about as annoying as PD putting in every R34 known to man, it just isn't needed.

Also what's more sad is that Chrysler especially through dodge seem to put out a lot of product placement in movies and tv shows. You have Breaking Bad, Hawaii 5-0 and the of course the Fast and Furious franchise. All this and they still have trouble beating Ford and Chevy

 

[YSSMAN]

The closest we would have gotten to a T/A, I suppose, would be a "Core" model. I think. Less content, all the go-fast parts, something I wish Ford and GM would do with the Mustang and Camaro. Because honestly, while I appreciate the fact you want to give me leather, navigation, HIDs, and whatever else for choosing the V8, that's not the reason why I'm buying the car, guys.

If I were going to do the T/A, I think at this point the only logical way of doing it is to take the Z/28 approach. Chrysler would have to make the car as impractical as possible to make it as fast as the Mustang and Camaro on the track, and even then, I'm not entirely sure if it would even be able to outdo the old BOSS 302, let alone, the current 1LE.

 

[MoLiEG]

Challenger 2014 Shaker editon

OMG