2015 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

[Vinylshark]

Vettel really unhappy with Pirelli and their tyres in the interview.
"The quality of the tyres has been miserable for years"

And now Niki is rather unhappy with Vettel's statement about Pirelli.

 

[niky]

@niky he had a grid penalty

Ah... Grosjean. Forgot that.

Still... good result, either way.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Vettel really unhappy with Pirelli and their tyres in the interview.
"The quality of the tyres has been miserable for years"

And now Niki is rather unhappy with Vettel's statement about Pirelli.

Perhaps he shouldn't ride over to kerbs so hard to avoid getting passed on the Kemmel then

 

[Nessy]

Creepy Uncle Sergio under investigation due to his lack of a F.I.A. approved beard

I almost mistook him for Tom Cruise.

 

[JockeP22]

Alright Marcus! 👍
Don't stop now.

 

[Dennisch]

The quality of the tyres has been miserable for years"

Stretching the stint for so long on a hot, high speed track, running over pretty much every kerb and then have a comment like that.

Words of a sore loser.

 

[C-ZETA]

Someone from Pirelli should plant one on Vettel's face for being such a drama queen.

 

[[Nor]MclarenF1]

The frustration is really starting to shine through now. I think Honda need to reassess their policy about doing it all by themselves and not hiring in outside help. They sure could benefit from hiring someone from Mercedes, Renault or Ferrari.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...-branded-mclarens-belgian-gp-an-embarrassment

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

It seemed that Kimi conceded the slipstream there at the end or did he magically know Verstappen would overcook it.


McLaren - They can finish the race, but the power doesn't seem to have increased much since the start of the season.

 

[[Nor]MclarenF1]

They've improved quite a bit since the season opener in Australia. I seem to recall Button being over 4 seconds a lap off the pace then. Now they're roughly 2 seconds off the pace. I think the reason for both Button and Alonsos frustration is that they were lead to believe that the PU would now be close to the Ferrari unit in terms of power, which turns out isn't really the case.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I agree with Vettel regarding the tyre matter, think also anyone designing new tyres should try and do a runflat one.

Q3 this year should be renamed to hammer time...

Well done to Lewis Hamilton on securing the Pole Position Trophy already and winning this race.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

They've improved quite a bit since the season opener in Australia.

Pace-wise, most of that improvement came in China right after Australia.

In China, the spread from P1 in Q1 was 1.77. Malaysia was 2.37. Belgium was 2.07.

 

[Swagger897]

think also anyone designing new tyres should try and do a runflat one.

Absolutely. Tires flailing around at those speeds have to be damaging the suspension and carbon fiber floors, and shouldn't be putting out cars.

 

[mustafur]

The frustration is really starting to shine through now. I think Honda need to reassess their policy about doing it all by themselves and not hiring in outside help. They sure could benefit from hiring someone from Mercedes, Renault or Ferrari.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...-branded-mclarens-belgian-gp-an-embarrassment

Honda said something along the lines of that Europeans don't mix well with the Japanese Culture of Honda.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think Honda need to reassess their policy about doing it all by themselves and not hiring in outside help.

You talk as if Honda have never managed any success previously and you seem to ignore that this is Race 11 for their engine dev programme rather than Race 30.

 

[niky]

Well, Vettel has a point. The tires had just gone off the cliff... and were still producing decent lap times three or four laps prior to the failure. You do expect a tire to blow if it's been on for too long, but "too long" is often defined as "plies showing through the surface" rather than "right after they've lost grip"

Then again, there have already been other spectacular tire failures this weekend, so Ferrari can't say they didn't know what they were getting into.

-

The more worrying issue with Honda-McLaren is that Alonso had his energy recovery system and was only one place up on Button.

They still need more power.

 

[GTPorsche]

Just watched the race. Good to see Coulthard on the podium again.

 

[spacecowboy73]

Well, Vettel has a point. The tires had just gone off the cliff... and were still producing decent lap times three or four laps prior to the failure. You do expect a tire to blow if it's been on for too long, but "too long" is often defined as "plies showing through the surface" rather than "right after they've lost grip"

Then again, there have already been other spectacular tire failures this weekend, so Ferrari can't say they didn't know what they were getting into.

-

The more worrying issue with Honda-McLaren is that Alonso had his energy recovery system and was only one place up on Button.

They still need more power.

He does have a point, but he also consistently exceeded the track limits at the top of eau rouge. Those curbs might have had an effect as well.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I almost mistook him for Tom Cruise.

Well, Button and Alonso don't look like they're driving racing cars so much as hanging onto the side of a jet for dear life ...

 

[niky]

He does have a point, but he also consistently exceeded the track limits at the top of eau rouge. Those curbs might have had an effect as well.

Quite possibly. Still... track limits or not, it was one heck of a stint, shame he didn't get anything for it!

 

[chromatic9]

DRS was too much. Would like to see it being more of a helper than to just be a gift.

In saying that, the cars were pretty spaced out just after a few laps despite a close quali. DRS is more like an aid for getting back markers out of the way and easing passed people on a different strategy.

Spa seemed gigantic all of a sudden with how slow the cars are and the spaces between each car.

 

[[Nor]MclarenF1]

Honda said something along the lines of that Europeans don't mix well with the Japanese Culture of Honda.

That is an issue of course.

You talk as if Honda have never managed any success previously and you seem to ignore that this is Race 11 for their engine dev programme rather than Race 30.

Then you've misunderstood or read something into my post that isn't there. I've been supportive of the McLaren/Honda programme since day one. However, it looks like it has come to a point that Hondas principles of doing it all by themselves is starting to do more harm than good. Which has been emphasized by Eric Boullier trying to pressure them into hiring outside expertise.
In no way have I claimed that Honda isn't up to the task, it's just that it looks like they could accomplish their goal sooner with the outside know-how.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

DRS was too much. Would like to see it being more of a helper than to just be a gift.

It's obviously an inexact science - the headwind up Kemmel made it too powerful, but there was lighter wind in the GP2 race, and so it was less powerful.

 

[chromatic9]

The speed of the cars is pretty disappointing. Not saying the cars need to go faster and faster each year, don't be silly. I think there's a certain point where its too slow for the drivers skills.

Just comparing Spa to 2007. We had 43 laps yesterday, if I make it 44 the race time is roughly 1:25:30.

Kimi in 2007 does 44 laps at 1:20:30. Trulli in his Toyota running tenth smashes Hamilton's time at 1:22:20

2002 even a Jaguar Cosworth with Eddie Irvine is beating the times of today and is two and half minutes ahead of Lewis. Also this is comparing them to Mercedes. Like for like positions it's much worse.

Have to note we had plenty of boring races before, its not about that. I get enjoyment from the team engineering aspect and drivers alone being tested to high levels and showing their lap skills.

We seem to be about 5-6 seconds off the pace per lap, which is huge. I'll always remember Lewis saying how slow it was when the big changes come in. Yesterday was like slow motion and even Coulthard said, yes this is not a slow motion replay the cars are actually racing.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Absolutely. Tires flailing around at those speeds have to be damaging the suspension and carbon fiber floors, and shouldn't be putting out cars.

It is a shame with all the technology available and how much effort that goes to make things efficient and as safe as possible, current tyres are made like they are.

Vettel said they were told by Pirelli they predicted the tyres would last 40 laps and they only did 28 laps on them. Pirelli blaming wear and falling 12 laps before their indication as something that can happen seems alarming. What I worry is FIA will wait until someone gets hurt before they do something about it. Sadly Jules Bianchi is not with us due to this approach and you can see drivers are worried what might happen and there have been quite close calls already with tyre failures like Alonso at Silverstone missing the tyre debris.

They need to ensure everything is as fail-safe as possible, whether it be tyres or throttle and brake inputs. Big loss of control is always dangerous but there is so much that can be done now to stop dangerous situations from happening in the future. It will be a shame if they just carry on as they are until someone gets hurt.

The speed of the cars is pretty disappointing. Not saying the cars need to go faster and faster each year, don't be silly. I think there's a certain point where its too slow for the drivers skills.

Just comparing Spa to 2007. We had 43 laps yesterday, if I make it 44 the race time is roughly 1:25:30.

Kimi in 2007 does 44 laps at 1:20:30. Trulli in his Toyota running tenth smashes Hamilton's time at 1:22:20

2002 even a Jaguar Cosworth with Eddie Irvine is beating the times of today and is two and half minutes ahead of Lewis. Also this is comparing them to Mercedes. Like for like positions it's much worse.

Have to note we had plenty of boring races before, its not about that. I get enjoyment from the team engineering aspect and drivers alone being tested to high levels and showing their lap skills.

We seem to be about 5-6 seconds off the pace per lap, which is huge. I'll always remember Lewis saying how slow it was when the big changes come in. Yesterday was like slow motion and even Coulthard said, yes this is not a slow motion replay the cars are actually racing.

I was thinking this myself the first few laps, they look so slow like they are trundling around. Even in Q3, most cars seem slower than race lap speed 6 years ago. So much money spent to be so much slower...

 

[20832]

It will be a shame if they just carry on as they are until someone gets hurt.

Unfortunately, that's the case in every sport, not just F1. And it's just sad!

 

[TenEightyOne]

The speed of the cars is pretty disappointing. Not saying the cars need to go faster and faster each year, don't be silly. I think there's a certain point where its too slow for the drivers skills.

Just comparing Spa to 2007. We had 43 laps yesterday, if I make it 44 the race time is roughly 1:25:30.

Kimi in 2007 does 44 laps at 1:20:30. Trulli in his Toyota running tenth smashes Hamilton's time at 1:22:20

2002 even a Jaguar Cosworth with Eddie Irvine is beating the times of today and is two and half minutes ahead of Lewis. Also this is comparing them to Mercedes. Like for like positions it's much worse.

Have to note we had plenty of boring races before, its not about that. I get enjoyment from the team engineering aspect and drivers alone being tested to high levels and showing their lap skills.

We seem to be about 5-6 seconds off the pace per lap, which is huge. I'll always remember Lewis saying how slow it was when the big changes come in. Yesterday was like slow motion and even Coulthard said, yes this is not a slow motion replay the cars are actually racing.

But they weren't carrying full race fuel back then and, as I was reminded elsewhere on the forum, the layout was different. Overall this should really be in the design thread but F1 is a cutting edge sport and car development is about energy recovery nowadays, not simply stuffing as much fuel as possible through lossy systems.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Look, Vettel retired to the pits and had tome to talk to his team before he went into the media pen. He'll have been told by the team to attack Pirelli to the media and not blame Ferrari for a stupid mistake they should have avoided.

 

[Famine]

The speed of the cars is pretty disappointing. Not saying the cars need to go faster and faster each year, don't be silly. I think there's a certain point where its too slow for the drivers skills.

Just comparing Spa to 2007. We had 43 laps yesterday, if I make it 44 the race time is roughly 1:25:30.

Race average speed 2015: 134.19mph.

Kimi in 2007 does 44 laps at 1:20:30. Trulli in his Toyota running tenth smashes Hamilton's time at 1:22:20

Race average speed 2007: 142.46mph.

2002 even a Jaguar Cosworth with Eddie Irvine is beating the times of today and is two and half minutes ahead of Lewis.

Race average speed 2002: 140.43mph
Eddie Irvine race average speed 2002: 138.24mph

We seem to be about 5-6 seconds off the pace per lap, which is huge.

Tyres, fuel and changes to circuit configurations will do that - in 2002 the circuit used the old 4.327 mile layout.

In qualifying trim there's much less to choose between the cars:
2015: 146.16mph
2007: 147.81mph
2002: 150.18mph

While Hamilton's time is only good enough for 16th on the 2002 grid (on an older configuration, shorter track), it's just 4mph and 3s slower. In 2007 it'd be good enough for 6th - just over a second down and, amusingly, one place ahead of Rosberg.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

But they weren't carrying full race fuel back then and, as I was reminded elsewhere on the forum, the layout was different. Overall this should really be in the design thread but F1 is a cutting edge sport and car development is about energy recovery nowadays, not simply stuffing as much fuel as possible through lossy systems.

They were in 2010 and were about 4+ seconds a lap faster. It was considered getting slower back then due to carrying full race fuel, now it is really slow and so visible how slow they have to drive the cars. Since that time we have worse tyres and a lot less downforce, efficiency in them department seemed to have gone down loads but at least the heavier power units use less fuel while taking a lot longer to see the chequered flag. A lot of extra money is being spent to go slower.

In 2009 when they didn't have to carry fuel race fuel, this year Q3 pole time would be last place in Q1 2009 behind Luca Badoer. Fastest race lap in 2009 would have been nearly good enough for pole this year.

Look, Vettel retired to the pits and had tome to talk to his team before he went into the media pen. He'll have been told by the team to attack Pirelli to the media and not blame Ferrari for a stupid mistake they should have avoided.

I think the team would be not happy him attacking Pirelli, rather Vettel decided to speak out as not many are doing so publicly.