2015 NASCAR Thread - And then there was 1

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Normally I find myself in agreement with you in this thread, but not this time.

Yes, Logano was already locked in, but that doesn't mean he was going to cruise around at Kansas and not go for the win if he could. I doubt his crew, Penske or his sponsors would be happy about that.

I also remember Joey having the faster car and making several attempts at a clean pass over a couple laps. Each time Matt threw a block and cut Joey off, and 1 or 2 of those times running Joey into the wall. I can't fault Joey for having enough of that and moving Matt out of the way, I would have done the same thing.
See my post from right after the race.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-best-race-ever.319832/page-264#post-11038244

That having been said, Logano should absolutely have gone for the win at Kansas, even though he was already locked in to the next round. His sponsors, team owner, pit crew, and fans would and should demand nothing less than 100% effort toward winning every single week from their driver.

But, the problem is how he did it.

I absolutely fault him for moving Matt out of the way. This wasn't at a one-groove track (think Martinsville, Darlington, or old Bristol) where bumping a guy out of the preferred groove is the only way of getting around him. Kansas is a multiple groove track, where you have plenty of options to get around other drivers by moving up or down the track in the corners. If the high lane is the only lane you are fast in, the leader would be stupid not to ride around in the high lane to take away your preferred line. It should be up to Logano to find another lane and make his pass cleanly. Kenseth's job is to make that pass as hard as possible, without intentionally wrecking the #22 car.

You don't have to go back that far to see how Logano feels about the legitimacy of blocking to protect a lead late in a race.





How many times in those videos did Logano block, rub, or ram the other drivers? He can't be upset with Matt at Kansas, if that's how he drives when protecting a lead.
 
Normally I find myself in agreement with you in this thread, but not this time.

Yes, Logano was already locked in, but that doesn't mean he was going to cruise around at Kansas and not go for the win if he could. I doubt his crew, Penske or his sponsors would be happy about that.

I also remember Joey having the faster car and making several attempts at a clean pass over a couple laps. Each time Matt threw a block and cut Joey off, and 1 or 2 of those times running Joey into the wall. I can't fault Joey for having enough of that and moving Matt out of the way, I would have done the same thing.
Kenseth was well within his right to block. A slight push or loosening up his rear is what you would expect at a speedway. Instead, Logano literally shoved him out of the way and spun him. In a series where drivers have been known to retaliate, was that move worth risking for that to happen down the road?
 
See my post from right after the race.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-best-race-ever.319832/page-264#post-11038244

That having been said, Logano should absolutely have gone for the win at Kansas, even though he was already locked in to the next round. His sponsors, team owner, pit crew, and fans would and should demand nothing less than 100% effort toward winning every single week from their driver.

But, the problem is how he did it.

I absolutely fault him for moving Matt out of the way. This wasn't at a one-groove track (think Martinsville, Darlington, or old Bristol) where bumping a guy out of the preferred groove is the only way of getting around him. Kansas is a multiple groove track, where you have plenty of options to get around other drivers by moving up or down the track in the corners. If the high lane is the only lane you are fast in, the leader would be stupid not to ride around in the high lane to take away your preferred line. It should be up to Logano to find another lane and make his pass cleanly. Kenseth's job is to make that pass as hard as possible, without intentionally wrecking the #22 car.

You don't have to go back that far to see how Logano feels about the legitimacy of blocking to protect a lead late in a race.





How many times in those videos did Logano block, rub, or ram the other drivers? He can't be upset with Matt at Kansas, if that's how he drives when protecting a lead.

Kenseth was well within his right to block. A slight push or loosening up his rear is what you would expect at a speedway. Instead, Logano literally shoved him out of the way and spun him. In a series where drivers have been known to retaliate, was that move worth risking for that to happen down the road?
The way the cars are Today with all the downforce is really not an option to sit behind somebody and loosen them up like Matt did here and all Matt had to keep doing that to Joey to stop his runs is to run his line and cause Joey to lose the air off the front of his car. Matt made the decision to block,Joey didn't lift, Matt wrecked,Matt got his payback for it. I would have been okay if Matt did what Brad did to Kurt and made Joey's Life Miserable but He drove Joey into a wall full speed , which Joey never did to him.
 
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The way the cars are Today with all the downforce is really not an option to sit behind somebody and loosen them up like Matt did here and all Matt had to keep doing to Joey to stop his runs is to run his line and cause Joey to lose the air off the front of his car. Matt made the decison to block,Joey didn't lift, Matt wrecked,Matt got his payback for it. I would have been okay if Matt did what Brad did to Kurt and made Joey's Life Miserable but He drove Joey into a wall full speed , which Joey never did to him.

If Kentucky is any indication, that's coming back next year
 
I would have been okay if Matt did what Brad did to Kurt and made Joey's Life Miserable but He drove Joey into a wall full speed , which Joey never did to him.

Kenseth was going considerably faster in a high-banked corner at Kansas when he was spun out. Logano couldn't have known that Matt would gather it up as well as he did and be able to keep the car off of the wall when he turned him. Kenseth could have just as easily backed it very hard into the wall, or nearly caught it, over-corrected, and went head-on into the wall. Didn't Clint Bowyer have that exact scenario happen at Kansas earlier in the race?
 
Kenseth was going considerably faster in a high-banked corner at Kansas when he was spun out. Logano couldn't have known that Matt would gather it up as well as he did and be able to keep the car off of the wall when he turned him. Kenseth could have just as easily backed it very hard into the wall, or nearly caught it, over-corrected, and went head-on into the wall. Didn't Clint Bowyer have that exact scenario happen at Kansas earlier in the race?
That would have been Matt's fault for blocking a car all the way into a corner..
 
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See my post from right after the race.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-best-race-ever.319832/page-264#post-11038244


That having been said, Logano should absolutely have gone for the win at Kansas, even though he was already locked in to the next round. His sponsors, team owner, pit crew, and fans would and should demand nothing less than 100% effort toward winning every single week from their driver.

Full agreement there. 👍

But, the problem is how he did it.

I absolutely fault him for moving Matt out of the way. This wasn't at a one-groove track (think Martinsville, Darlington, or old Bristol) where bumping a guy out of the preferred groove is the only way of getting around him. Kansas is a multiple groove track, where you have plenty of options to get around other drivers by moving up or down the track in the corners. If the high lane is the only lane you are fast in, the leader would be stupid not to ride around in the high lane to take away your preferred line. It should be up to Logano to find another lane and make his pass cleanly. Kenseth's job is to make that pass as hard as possible, without intentionally wrecking the #22 car.

As stated before, Joey made many attempts to pass cleanly, going where Matt wasn't (high/low) and each time he got blocked. I counted 3 attempts on the front stretch alone leading up to where Matt spun. Any driver out there is only going to take so much of that before they use the bumper.

You don't have to go back that far to see how Logano feels about the legitimacy of blocking to protect a lead late in a race.





How many times in those videos did Logano block, rub, or ram the other drivers? He can't be upset with Matt at Kansas, if that's how he drives when protecting a lead.


The first video with Tony was a restart with 10-20 laps to go. Not exactly the same as scenario as Kansas.

The second was hard racing with Denny. Denny tried to squeeze him low and get him loose in the final turn. It worked, but Denny himself got collected.
 
Kenseth was going considerably faster in a high-banked corner at Kansas when he was spun out. Logano couldn't have known that Matt would gather it up as well as he did and be able to keep the car off of the wall when he turned him. Kenseth could have just as easily backed it very hard into the wall, or nearly caught it, over-corrected, and went head-on into the wall. Didn't Clint Bowyer have that exact scenario happen at Kansas earlier in the race?
He did. That was a pretty hard hit with how quickly he lost the car.
 
As stated before, Joey made many attempts to pass cleanly, going where Matt wasn't (high/low) and each time he got blocked. I counted 3 attempts on the front stretch alone leading up to where Matt spun. Any driver out there is only going to take so much of that before they use the bumper.
Again, if Joey thinks it's OK to block to protect a lead late in the race, he can't get upset and dump the guy in front of him for doing the same thing. The problem is this perception that Joey feels like he should be allowed to block to protect his lead, but no one should be allowed to block him if he's the one trying to make the pass.

The first video with Tony was a restart with 10-20 laps to go. Not exactly the same as scenario as Kansas.
10 laps to go at California and 4 laps to go at Kansas, in my mind, is the same scenario. It's the end of the race.

The next pass for the lead is likely to be the last one, especially given the way the current aero packages make it harder to pass if you are the trailing car. Hopefully, next year's low-drag package puts an end to this current era where track position is king, and puts the ability to pass back in the drivers' hands.

The second was hard racing with Denny. Denny tried to squeeze him low and get him loose in the final turn. It worked, but Denny himself got collected.

It looked to me like Logano was driving Hamlin all over the track, pushing up 2 to 3 lanes into him, and nearly using him as a guardrail to make it through the final corner when he realized the 11 car was still pulling away from him on corner exit.
 
Again, if Joey thinks it's OK to block to protect a lead late in the race, he can't get upset and dump the guy in front of him for doing the same thing. The problem is this perception that Joey feels like he should be allowed to block to protect his lead, but no one should be allowed to block him if he's the one trying to make the pass.

I agree that Matt has every right to block, but he shouldn't be surprised if he gets moved out of the way. He's been in Cup long enough to know that. Whether it was Joey's intent to spin him out or not, I do not know. Maybe he was just trying to get him loose and misjudged.

10 laps to go at California and 4 laps to go at Kansas, in my mind, is the same scenario. It's the end of the race.

The next pass for the lead is likely to be the last one, especially given the way the current aero packages make it harder to pass if you are the trailing car. Hopefully, next year's low-drag package puts an end to this current era where track position is king, and puts the ability to pass back in the drivers' hands.

The block on Tony with 10-20 to go was a restart. Not exactly the same. Plus 10-20 laps to go at Auto Club is a bit longer than 4-5 to go at Kansas.

As for next years aero package, I hope so too. 👍

It looked to me like Logano was driving Hamlin all over the track, pushing up 2 to 3 lanes into him, and nearly using him as a guardrail to make it through the final corner when he realized the 11 car was still pulling away from him on corner exit.

Opinions vary of course. I saw hard racing. Denny didn't have a noticeably faster car than Joey either. (like Joey did vs Matt at Kansas)
 
Interesting quotes from Jeff Gordon on the Logano-Kenseth incident.

(Dan) Patrick then asked Gordon if Kenseth did what any other driver would have done in that situation.

“I can only speak for myself,’’ Gordon said. “I think Matt is a very intense driver. He’s quiet and reserved. I have had my run-ins with Matt. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Matt.

“I think that what he feels like is he was disrespected and that he wasn’t going to stand for it anymore. It’s like kind of a three-strikes-and-you’re-out situation. The Kansas thing happened and that’s strike one, and they had some issues at Talladega (Kenseth was upset at Logano for cutting across his car to enter pit road) and that’s strike two, and then, boom, this happens at Martinsville and it’s like strike three that’s it.

“I think anyone that was in that position who is a competitor and has driven a race car … 90 percent of the time they do the same thing.’’

http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2015/11...ogano-could-have-handled-kansas-better-video/
 
Strike three being what? Just being ten feet near him?

Quite sad that Matt got upset about the crossing in Talladega... If Matt wants to slow down five hundred feet before entrance that's fine with him, but it's still a race track and positions change all over the place, including before entering pit road.
 
Strike three being what? Just being ten feet near him?

Quite sad that Matt got upset about the crossing in Talladega... If Matt wants to slow down five hundred feet before entrance that's fine with him, but it's still a race track and positions change all over the place, including before entering pit road.
How long do you think it takes to slow down from 200mph to 45mph?

There is a reason that everyone else that was pitting on that lap was already slowing down on the apron, and not sliding down from the middle lane on the track slamming on the brakes.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar-...ladega-matt-kenseth-joey-logano-knock-him-out
 
I love how none of the idiots on NASCAR Race Hub get it. Its not a Kenseth's right/Logano's right thing (although I dislike either driver and let's be honest, we all enjoyed it). Inevitably its NASCAR's fault, and theirs alone for the whole thing. They set up this convoluted system, change rules on a whim, and have completely lost control of the on track product. If either driver (preferably both) gets punished, then they need to go back and punish Harvick as well and lay down the law that "arse"hole driving will not be tolerated in the sport anymore.
 
I love how none of the idiots on NASCAR Race Hub get it. Its not a Kenseth's right/Logano's right thing (although I dislike either driver and let's be honest, we all enjoyed it). Inevitably its NASCAR's fault, and theirs alone for the whole thing. They set up this convoluted system, change rules on a whim, and have completely lost control of the on track product. If either driver (preferably both) gets punished, then they need to go back and punish Harvick as well and lay down the law that "arse"hole driving will not be tolerated in the sport anymore.
What do you expect? It's Faux Sports. At least NBC Sports offered both sides of the argument.
 
As if you and I are both qualified to answer that question.

How long do you think it takes to slow down from 200mph to 45mph?

Hello Swagger, so 200mph down to 45 with no ABS, stability control, drum brakes not made of carbon and the car is a 4 speed with 650hp, easy to do I take it?
 
Hello Swagger, so 200mph down to 45 with no ABS, stability control, drum brakes not made of carbon and the car is a 4 speed with 650hp, easy to do I take it?
Like I said, neither of us who don't race as a profession have a plausible opinion for that.

In Joey's mind, he could make it to the pits faster than Matt could and not lose positions coming back out on track.
 
They also don't have the butcher of the English language known as Larry McReynolds.
Thankfully he's out of the booth, if only they would get rid of DW -replace him in 2017 with Tony Stewart-then everything would be fine commentator wise (as long as Mike Joy doesn't yell).
 
"18 years of trying, 18 years of frustation, Tony Stewart will come to the caution flag to win the Daytona 500!

Finally!"
 
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