2015 TUDOR United Sportscar Championship

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Thing is, its only Chevy giving support and again at COTA, those same dominate Chevys had nothing for the Ligier. If many of the teams end up with that car (and have drivers like Yacaman driving it to infiniti and beyond), then the DPs are going to be quickly overwhelmed. There's no direction for those DP cars in the future.
 
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Thing is, its only Chevy giving support and again at COTA, those same dominate Chevys had nothing for the Ligier. If many of the teams end up with that car (and have drivers like Yacaman driving it to infiniti and beyond), then the DPs are going to be quickly overwhelmed. There's no direction for those DP cars in the future.
All it takes is a check from Chevy...I mean BoP change and the Vette DPs will be loud and proud in the front. The politics won't allow the Vette DPs to be uncompetitive.

Remember, Shank is the only confirmed full season LMP2 team other than the Die-Activs. Shank has a Rolex 24, but not much in terms of season long success really ever in Grand am. Tough competitor, but the pro-am lineup has kept him from being a complete championship threat. Oak hasn't confirmed anything either. ESM is only the endurance rounds.

While the DP chassis is becoming more and more obsolete by the day, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to write it off. Chevy has developed and released a C7 body kit for the car for this upcoming season. If there's still development and mfr backing, it's not going anywhere.

The huge if in all of this like you're saying is if many other teams end up with the car. Unless Ganassi, Oak, and Starworks commit full season LMP2, I don't see a DP overwhelming going on
 
I can see Ganassi playing the long game and running a P2 full-time next year to get that much more track time with it, hoping the extra time will make them more competitive when the rules change happens.
 
All it takes is a check from Chevy...I mean BoP change and the Vette DPs will be loud and proud in the front. The politics won't allow the Vette DPs to be uncompetitive.

Funny thing is they didn't even need to do for the last three seasons, they just massively out paced everyone as they did back in the Pontiac days. Car is damn near all engine.

Remember, Shank is the only confirmed full season LMP2 team other than the Die-Activs. Shank has a Rolex 24, but not much in terms of season long success really ever in Grand am. Tough competitor, but the pro-am lineup has kept him from being a complete championship threat. Oak hasn't confirmed anything either. ESM is only the endurance rounds.[/QUOTE]

True, but that can still change at any time and remember, Shank was one of the longtime Ford teams and he did that.

While the DP chassis is becoming more and more obsolete by the day, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to write it off. Chevy has developed and released a C7 body kit for the car for this upcoming season. If there's still development and mfr backing, it's not going anywhere.

Where has this be officially confirmed? Its been hinted at and talked about, but nowhere have I seen it made official.

The huge if in all of this like you're saying is if many other teams end up with the car. Unless Ganassi, Oak, and Starworks commit full season LMP2, I don't see a DP overwhelming going on

Ganassi will side with whoever has the advantage. They were a powerhouse Lexus team but dropped them quick the moment Steve Dinan offered a much more potent BMW engine for the DP chassis. Likewise, they dropped BMW the moment Ford offered them a checks and maybe what they though would be an advantage. If they see any sort of advantage they can get, they'll go straight to it so I guarantee if they think the P2 cars will be more advantageous (and they are already cheaper then the DPs are at the moment and going off Oak racing so far, just as quick if not quicker), then they will. I'm sure Starworks already has their mind made up and it isn't DP. They want to race in the top class and do so everywhere. P2 is looking more & more to be the way of Prototypes and all it takes is for more teams apart from OAK racing to pull the same performance and suddenly, the real balance of power will shift. Its inevitable no matter what Chevy does, there has been no new parties interested in building or selling DPs yet we have Dome with a new P2 car, HPD and of course Ligier.
 
Funny thing is they didn't even need to do for the last three seasons, they just massively out paced everyone as they did back in the Pontiac days. Car is damn near all engine.
I'd argue BMW was the one with the advantage most recently. The 5.0L BMW engine had to be BoP'd back for this season with the increased power on the DP cars. That really shows that Ganassi had the best power. In 2012, the BMW engine's average top speed at Daytona was something like 4 mph faster than the average Ford or GM engine.

True, but that can still change at any time and remember, Shank was one of the longtime Ford teams and he did that.
But will it? Other than Starworks a few months ago, I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest more teams going to a Ligier for the full season. Rahal and Andretti both had all but committed full season LMP2 chassis P entries as recent as a few months ago. Now Andretti backed out and Rahal is supposedly putting together a Dinan DP program.

Where has this be officially confirmed? Its been hinted at and talked about, but nowhere have I seen it made official.
I heard it at Petit. That's as much as I know.
Ganassi will side with whoever has the advantage. They were a powerhouse Lexus team but dropped them quick the moment Steve Dinan offered a much more potent BMW engine for the DP chassis. Likewise, they dropped BMW the moment Ford offered them a checks and maybe what they though would be an advantage. If they see any sort of advantage they can get, they'll go straight to it so I guarantee if they think the P2 cars will be more advantageous (and they are already cheaper then the DPs are at the moment and going off Oak racing so far, just as quick if not quicker), then they will. I'm sure Starworks already has their mind made up and it isn't DP. They want to race in the top class and do so everywhere. P2 is looking more & more to be the way of Prototypes and all it takes is for more teams apart from OAK racing to pull the same performance and suddenly, the real balance of power will shift. Its inevitable no matter what Chevy does, there has been no new parties interested in building or selling DPs yet we have Dome with a new P2 car, HPD and of course Ligier.
I much prefer the DP type chassis to the eyes and ears, but I'm not stupid. I totally agree that the carbon monocoque chassis is the direction going forward. Carbon Fiber is becoming less costly to manufacture finally making it way more practical. You're spot on with Ganassi going with the best option. Starworks won't enter anything unless they have am drivers getting the budget to work. That's another big if surrounding the whole situation. I firmly believe that there won't be any more new DP chassis constructors because there's no market past 2016. My only beef is that I don't want a bunch of neutered LMP1 cars with 4 times the downforce than what's powering them driven by amateurs because that's the only way they can make budget. I would like to see a broader range of engines in those cars as well. The LMP2 cars don't sound nearly as good to me as the throaty loud V8 the Vette DP. Nothing wrong with the twin turbos, but there needs to be a V8 in there with something like the old Pickett AM engine or possibly a Dodge Viper V10 powered Prototype. Get the variety up. (It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they hacked the big honkin' fins off those things either)

My worst fear for the series going forward is that IMSA tries to get all the P class engines to be something as exotic as the Die-Activ. That shoots the engine budgets outside the realm of the majority of the teams currently competing. Then we're back to the ALMS since 2011 with horrible prototype car counts.
 
Not so fast guys, there is still GM and the Corvette DP. Since GM is giving those teams *SOME* factory support in addition to the Corvette GTE's, AND they haven't announced a similar program for P2 yet, AND their waiting on whether custom bodywork will be an option in the future you can be darn sure their teams will be fighting the Ligiers (however un successful they may be) until the bitter end. what happens after that though, IDK

PS, GM have also said that said car is getting an upgrade soon to look closer to the GTE. That could be a game-changer

The one thing that GM can't buy teams is FIA certifications. The P2s are FIA certified and can enter any FIA Sanctioned endurance series if the rules permit it. It doesn't matter if GM has millions of dollars to pay people to run their DPs- people with global aspirations will run for a P2 since it can run at Le Mans. If GM wanted to have it's own Prototypes, they'd be smart to start work on its own P2 right now since the DPs won't be around for long. After all, GM does have Pratt & Miller on its payroll since they oversee the Corvette Racing team. Plus, if GM threatened IMSA with the rules change, I have a feeling that The FIA could threaten the C7R's FIA certifications. Of course, the future LMP3 class will probably be the current DP cars in the near future, but the teams in Prototype will probably buy P2s in leiu of the upcoming changeover.
 
The one thing that GM can't buy teams is FIA certifications. The P2s are FIA certified and can enter any FIA Sanctioned endurance series if the rules permit it. It doesn't matter if GM has millions of dollars to pay people to run their DPs- people with global aspirations will run for a P2 since it can run at Le Mans. If GM wanted to have it's own Prototypes, they'd be smart to start work on its own P2 right now since the DPs won't be around for long. After all, GM does have Pratt & Miller on its payroll since they oversee the Corvette Racing team. Plus, if GM threatened IMSA with the rules change, I have a feeling that The FIA could threaten the C7R's FIA certifications. Of course, the future LMP3 class will probably be the current DP cars in the near future, but the teams in Prototype will probably buy P2s in leiu of the upcoming changeover.
How many US prototype teams have raced at Le Mans recently? Everyone wants to race Le Mans, but who actually does from America? There were only like 4 teams from the US that raced in any class this season with at least 1 of them not returning. Point being: just because US teams want to race Le Mans and have a car that can race it doesn't mean that they do.

From what I understand, the next-gen IMSA P class car will retain the Gen 3 DP/LMP1 Evo body styles whether the FIA/ACO adopts it or not. Not 100% on that though. Still a lot of time for money to change hands and the people in charge to get sacked
 
I'd argue BMW was the one with the advantage most recently. The 5.0L BMW engine had to be BoP'd back for this season with the increased power on the DP cars. That really shows that Ganassi had the best power. In 2012, the BMW engine's average top speed at Daytona was something like 4 mph faster than the average Ford or GM engine.

Nobody ran it though (unless there was a DP team I completely forgot about). If that RG team has a good enough driver lineup paired with that good engine as you say, then all the work Chevy might be for nothing. Of course the Rileys aren't getting any sort of aero updates as far as I know while the Corvettes supposedly are so that might not play out.


But will it? Other than Starworks a few months ago, I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest more teams going to a Ligier for the full season. Rahal and Andretti both had all but committed full season LMP2 chassis P entries as recent as a few months ago. Now Andretti backed out and Rahal is supposedly putting together a Dinan DP program.

Interestingly, that's not what I read in this article says. Sure nothing is confirmed, but this sure seems to put those supposed news about that happening in doubt.


I heard it at Petit. That's as much as I know.

Looks like according to this article, this is true:

RACER.com
And we’ve been in conversation with the folks at Judd to get that process started with Krohn’s Ligier. We’ll also be in the tunnel with the DP cars as we try to balance the new Corvette C7 bodywork. There’s plenty of work for everyone to do that will keep us busy during a short off-season.”

Interesting to see when Chevy finally shows it. I think the C7 Headlights and Tail lights will suit the shape of the car much better then the C6 Headlights and tail lights did.

I much prefer the DP type chassis to the eyes and ears, but I'm not stupid. I totally agree that the carbon monocoque chassis is the direction going forward. Carbon Fiber is becoming less costly to manufacture finally making it way more practical. You're spot on with Ganassi going with the best option. Starworks won't enter anything unless they have am drivers getting the budget to work. That's another big if surrounding the whole situation. I firmly believe that there won't be any more new DP chassis constructors because there's no market past 2016. My only beef is that I don't want a bunch of neutered LMP1 cars with 4 times the downforce than what's powering them driven by amateurs because that's the only way they can make budget. I would like to see a broader range of engines in those cars as well. The LMP2 cars don't sound nearly as good to me as the throaty loud V8 the Vette DP. Nothing wrong with the twin turbos, but there needs to be a V8 in there with something like the old Pickett AM engine or possibly a Dodge Viper V10 powered Prototype. Get the variety up. (It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they hacked the big honkin' fins off those things either)

As much as I deeply despise the Pro-Am formula for that very reason (Le Mans 2012 anyone?), there appears to be no end in sight to that.


My worst fear for the series going forward is that IMSA tries to get all the P class engines to be something as exotic as the Die-Activ. That shoots the engine budgets outside the realm of the majority of the teams currently competing. Then we're back to the ALMS since 2011 with horrible prototype car counts.

I still think a lot of that was the Economy tanking because well before, everything was just fine with these very same things going on.
 
The one thing that GM can't buy teams is FIA certifications. The P2s are FIA certified and can enter any FIA Sanctioned endurance series if the rules permit it. It doesn't matter if GM has millions of dollars to pay people to run their DPs- people with global aspirations will run for a P2 since it can run at Le Mans. If GM wanted to have it's own Prototypes, they'd be smart to start work on its own P2 right now since the DPs won't be around for long. After all, GM does have Pratt & Miller on its payroll since they oversee the Corvette Racing team. Plus, if GM threatened IMSA with the rules change, I have a feeling that The FIA could threaten the C7R's FIA certifications. Of course, the future LMP3 class will probably be the current DP cars in the near future, but the teams in Prototype will probably buy P2s in leiu of the upcoming changeover.
1. Budget-wise, It would be silly for GM to develop a new car. HOWEVER: They might be hangin around a while as an engine supplier (US only methinks) 2. see below 3. That's silly

From what I understand, the next-gen IMSA P class car will retain the Gen 3 DP/LMP1 Evo body styles whether the FIA/ACO adopts it or not. Not 100% on that though. Still a lot of time for money to change hands and the people in charge to get sacked
Correct. Hence GM body kits. Whether those go international or not remains to be seen
 
Where are you hearing this? This just seems largely impossible considering the only DPs competing are unsupported Rileys and slightly supported Corvette DPs.
 
Nobody ran it though (unless there was a DP team I completely forgot about). If that RG team has a good enough driver lineup paired with that good engine as you say, then all the work Chevy might be for nothing. Of course the Rileys aren't getting any sort of aero updates as far as I know while the Corvettes supposedly are so that might not play out.




Interestingly, that's not what I read in this article says. Sure nothing is confirmed, but this sure seems to put those supposed news about that happening in doubt.




Looks like according to this article, this is true:



Interesting to see when Chevy finally shows it. I think the C7 Headlights and Tail lights will suit the shape of the car much better then the C6 Headlights and tail lights did.






I
interesting
 
The "driving standards" situation would be much better if you kept the Bronze drivers out of the LMP2 cars altogether, and out of the GTE cars at night. You want to make stupid moves and lazy blocks? That's what CTSCC/Porsche Cup is for. Figure your **** out there and THEN get moved up.

Oak racing said they wouldn't run a car if there is a customer already there. So effectively, we lost a team.

I reckon the engine failures on the Ligier-Honda this year have scared everyone away from the HPD chassis, since the Ligier can run the bulletproof Nissan, and the more torque-y Judd BMW; whereas the HPD can only run a Honda engine.

I do recall reading in like 2010 that any engine from a homologated GTE car could legally be run in the back of a P2 car. I'm guessing nobody has done it on account of the GTE teams having no cost cap, and the P2 engines having a very strict cost cap. If Chevrolet wanted to run their 5.5 in a LMP2 chassis they're more than welcome to, as long as it's a customer program.

With regards to Mazda and engine budgets, they aren't eligible for full-spec LMP2 because their engine (Diesel aside) is currently costing them a fortune. I believe a single engine isn't supposed to cost more that €45,000 or something like that. If they adhered to full P2 rules, Mazda wouldn't be spending astronomical amounts of money like they are now. They'd be running an AER-prepped EcoBoost. But because we can't let the "fag cars" win, we can't just have regular P2, which contains costs quite nicely.
This is where I wonder what Mike Shank is going to do about Le Mans: will they consider that EcoBoost engine to be under the cost cap if Roush Yates has been pumping development into it on Ford's dime? Sure Roush will "sell" it to MSR, but probably at a "loss", which Ford will subsidize. Tricky stuff.

I believe Rahal already said he's going to forgo the P option.

Not entirely sure how it would be good for the sport to continue to have bland looking cars represent your class. A layman can EASILY spot the difference between an LMP2 car and a GT car. A DP and a GT car are more similar-looking.
 
The "driving standards" situation would be much better if you kept the Bronze drivers out of the LMP2 cars altogether, and out of the GTE cars at night. You want to make stupid moves and lazy blocks? That's what CTSCC/Porsche Cup is for. Figure your **** out there and THEN get moved up.

Exactly my point about the whole Pro/Am crap.

Oak racing said they wouldn't run a car if there is a customer already there. So effectively, we lost a team.

Is it confirmed that they won't though? Yes they've said what they said, but has it been firmly set in stone?


Also, rest of your post contains a potential AUP violation.
 
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Fanchoice TV on right now and if anyone notices, Hand and Auberlan are in RHL BMW clothes. I think that pretty much kills the rumors about RHL going to Prototypes
 
Article today. Rahal not going to P in anything. I believe it was on Racer.

More GTD news, Bill Sweedler and Townsend Bell are racing a GTD Ferrari for Scuderia Corsa in 2015.


The "driving standards" situation would be much better if you kept the Bronze drivers out of the LMP2 cars altogether, and out of the GTE cars at night. You want to make stupid moves and lazy blocks? That's what CTSCC/Porsche Cup is for. Figure your **** out there and THEN get moved up.
Totally agree. While these type of budgets usually require an am driver, I do think that there should be some serious guidelines before these ams race out there like experience in traffic, in rain, and at night in the car that the am is racing in even if the class is mandatory pro-am. At the very least, have a certain number of laps or time driven in that certain car before they're allowed to race at all. I think an extra set of tires and a 45 minute session for the am drivers only needs to be added to the race weekends like grand am did just for the extra familiarity with the car on each track for the ams
 
Article today. Rahal not going to P in anything. I believe it was on Racer.

meme-i-see-what-you-did-there-face-1.jpg
 
LMAFO. Someone did not think this post all the way through :lol::lol::lol:
A little tongue in cheek wording to lighten the mood never hurt anyone right? :lol:

In all seriousness, it was Racer.com that had the article pretty much saying that Rahal was confident that he would continue racing the BMW GTLM factory team
 
So its officially safe to say that Ganassi will stick with the DP/Ford combination and as I suspected, Oak Racing will be competing.

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/110602-imsa-ganassi-confirms-2015-chassis-engine-package

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/110603-imsa-oak-racing-working-on-prototype-return
"We will try to continue as a team, but it depends on the finances we find,"
Nothing has been confirmed full season. Depends if Gus wants to race again. It certainly wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings if he didn't, but I think he will
 
"We will try to continue as a team, but it depends on the finances we find,"
Nothing has been confirmed full season. Depends if Gus wants to race again. It certainly wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings if he didn't, but I think he will

I didn't say that, I said they will be competing (contrast to the comments about them not "racing against customers").
 
I didn't say that, I said they will be competing (contrast to the comments about them not "racing against customers").
I really want some full season competitors. They're not really racing against customers if it's not the whole schedule. The TPNAEC or whatever it's called is a "championship" that really means nothing to anyone except the teams because of the prize money.
 
I really want some full season competitors. They're not really racing against customers if it's not the whole schedule. The TPNAEC or whatever it's called is a "championship" that really means nothing to anyone except the teams because of the prize money.

Thing is, they kinda are because Krohn is also competing in just those rounds as is Micheal Shank Racing by default because of the full schedule.
 
Thing is, they kinda are because Krohn is also competing in just those rounds as is Micheal Shank Racing by default because of the full schedule.
Yea they're in the same races as their customers, but it's only for the nice check given at the end currently. It was also mentioned that the powerplant of choice for Oak isn't decided because they're waiting for support on that end. Still a lot up in the air
 
I was recently reading the update on the IMSA DTM series and saw a purely random image that struck an idea:

What if IMSA attempted to lure the fleeing GTD-GT3 teams back by making the "Class One" series a Super GT style multi-class format with GT3 as their second class? Especially if Class One needs time to ramp up grid sizes?

Something I'd certainly be considering to bring those teams back into the fold.
 
I was recently reading the update on the IMSA DTM series and saw a purely random image that struck an idea:

What if IMSA attempted to lure the fleeing GTD-GT3 teams back by making the "Class One" series a Super GT style multi-class format with GT3 as their second class? Especially if Class One needs time to ramp up grid sizes?

Something I'd certainly be considering to bring those teams back into the fold.
Too close to PWC imo. Interesting idea though. I will be stunned and amazed if that DTM series gets going here. The GT racing market here is very saturated as is. All it would do is pull entries from PWC which is a shame because it's getting really good grids now. Plus, all the US mfrs have too much invested in GTE/LM and that other touring car series that races ovals to have factory DTM cars if you ask me ;)
 
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