2016/17 Premier League & General Football Discussion

[lxmmy]

I will bet my house that if Redbull made a team in London, Birmingham, Manchester etc and got them to the Premier league the stadium will not be empty so long as the performance is high, Success brings fans to your stadium and nearly every club in England has attendances that go along that line, it's proven more by teams that don't sell out every game(ofcourse there are many that will sell out regardless because of the fan base).

What makes you think they are going to have guaranteed success and bring them to the Premier league? It won't be quick job like what they did at Leipzig because the quality of football in the German leagues are just dire.

I use an example of a team that buys one, changes the name, logo, Jerseys and moves to a new area with a new stadium they will follow?

Exactly the opposite. The way Red Bull extensively change the club of SSV Markranstadt, the reaction of the Ultra's and most supporters of clubs here in England will not take kindly to it and will just turn their back on that club like in the way how AFC Wimbledon was established in reaction the way owners had changed Wimbledon (MK Dons) and just look at MK Dons, they are now in the same league as AFC Wimbledon so not a very good example to use in how this kind of ownership of clubs will be successful in England.

 

[mustafur]

What makes you think they are going to have guaranteed success and bring them to the Premier league? It won't be quick job like what they did at Leipzig because the quality of football in the German leagues are just dire.

I never said it would be quick, or guaranteed just highly likely given the mentioned advantage(statistics are in their favour if the investment they bring is much larger then the competition). I wouldn't say German leagues are dire, but the English football system is far surpiror to any other league by miles under the main league with 3 fully professional leagues under the Premier league, Germany only has 1 so yes it's a big difference.

Exactly the opposite. The way Red Bull extensively change the club of SSV Markranstadt, the reaction of the Ultra's and most supporters of clubs here in England will not take kindly to it and will just turn their back on that club like in the way how AFC Wimbledon was established in reaction the way owners had changed Wimbledon (MK Dons) and just look at MK Dons, they are now in the same league as AFC Wimbledon so not a very good example to use in how this kind of ownership of clubs will be successful in England.

The difference here was, RB Leipzig didn't exactly move far from the team they bought the license from(something like 10km), and the team they bought it from was significantly better off doing it this way as they where massively compensated financially, also to keep in mind the fan base of SSV Markanstadt was extremely small, of course some people will never be happy but given the conditions I outlined in previous posts the hated towards Redbull doing a similar thing with a Lowly English club won't match RB Leipzig given the structure of German football which is supposed to avoid big business buying teams and be more fan owned.

But to compare MK Dons to what Redbull would provide is not a credible comparison, for one we don't know the budgets Redbull will commit to, and if indeed it's like RB Leipzig the difference between the two is already massive just in that.

 

[Liquid]

Investing in a club in England depends also on where the club is based. Wigan Athletic, for all their success since 1995, never do the gates that they should. They have a 25,000 seater stadium and even as a Premier League team their average attendence was around the 17,000 mark. Wigan is not a footballing town, it's a rugby league town and always will be.

Not that that stopped Dave Whelan investing heavily in a club he does truly love, but it does sometimes come across as a lost cause or a perennial uphill struggle when no matter how much money is pumped in, they just don't draw the numbers that they ought to.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

The owners of the New York Yankees are in talks with Notts County over a takeover.

Frank Lampard will leave New York FC when his contract runs out at the end of this calender year.

The Premier League has given the green light for its teams to have sponsorship on its shirt sleeves, could happen from next year.

 

[lxmmy]

Not that that stopped Dave Whelan investing heavily in a club he does truly love, but it does sometimes come across as a lost cause or a perennial uphill struggle when no matter how much money is pumped in, they just don't draw the numbers that they ought to.

Even after the FA Cup win they still struggled to get a packed stadium in the season after.

Also statistics go against your theory of money doesn't buy success, if you have a big advantage in money over your competition your success over a long period of time will vastly outperform those with much smaller budgets, so long as you maintain that advantage, or even compare that to clubs success before and after they landed a big financial windfall though ownership of a billionaire etc(Chelsea and Manchester City ring any bells).

The clubs you have listed were already in the Premiership so the foundation has already been set out for but the lower league it is a completely different scenario as they don't get as much revenue, facilities are at a lower standard and it is quite a rough standard of football which there is no guarantee of easy wins no matter how much you spend on players. And if Red Bull wanted a short term return on investment which they will seek towards then they can throw that idea out of the window.

 

[mustafur]

The thing is with the English system is there is no precedent of a big wealthy club going from a really low position in the Pyramid to the top, the sides that end up getting relegated from the premier league have basically been stripped apart once they lose that TV money from the Premier league, so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens if or when Redbull do it.

Newcastle Utd are probably the biggest team to be in the Championship in both times they dropped, and looking at it now it looks like both times will be an easy stroll back to promotion, having a huge Stadium with high attendance and merchandising can help the money flow once you lose that Premier league TV money, either way with how useless the management has been in that club under Mike Ashley no doubt they will find them selves back when they get promoted.

 

[Liquid]

The thing is with the English system is there is no precedent of a big wealthy club going from a really low position in the Pyramid to the top, the sides that end up getting relegated from the premier league have basically been stripped apart once they lose that TV money from the Premier league, so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens if or when Redbull do it.

Newcastle Utd are probably the biggest team to be in the Championship in both times they dropped, and looking at it now it looks like both times will be an easy stroll back to promotion, having a huge Stadium with high attendance and merchandising can help the money flow once you lose that Premier league TV money, either way with how useless the management has been in that club under Mike Ashley no doubt they will find them selves back when they get promoted.

You could say Leicester did. For anyone to even go from the third tier to the first, never mind winning the title, is an astonishing achievement.

Slightly further down the pyramid, Fleetwood Town went from local village football to the third tier (League One) in 15 years thanks to a lot of money but for now they've hit their ceiling.

But the English system is so developed, competitive, big, however you want to describe it, you're not going to get say, Dulwich Hamlet or Hyde or Lancaster City storming to the Premier League any time soon.

 

[Touring Mars]

Now this is only reported but its about Red Bull, now as we know that as well as being a massive drinks company, Red Bull also own some sports teams and this includes Football, they currently own Salzburg, New York in the MLS, Brasilio in South America and more recently there has been the phenomenal rise of Red Bull Leipzig in the Germany, now there are reports that they are scouting in England for a club to take over here, they are looking at clubs in the Premier League, Championship and League One with Charlton and Swindon said to be possibilities.

Torquay Rosso?

Funnily enough, Red Bull's F1 involvement does make one wonder about the prospect of 'feeder' teams in football, and players getting shunted from the 'big' club to the feeder team if and when their performance levels drop; ironic, though, that such a harsh, Darwinian system has resulted in the sensational rise of Max Verstappen when he replaced whatshisname - I wonder if we can expect more of this in football in the future??

 

[Brend]

The moose is at it again.

 

[Touring Mars]

Good win for England tonight... although I didn't see the last 2 minutes or any added time - did I miss anything?

 

[Liquid]

Two more bite the dust.

14th November - Russell Slade (Charlton Athletic, sacked) Championship
14th November - Adam Murray (Mansfield Town, resigned) League Two

Sackings: 10
Resignations: 5

Total: 15

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Wayne Rooney has issued a statement in which he 'apologizes unreservedly' for his actions after the Scotland game on Saturday, he was pictured on the early hours of Saturday morning drunk whilst partying at the team hotel with guests of a wedding that was going on there, Phil Jagielka was also involved as were some of the England backroom staff, pictures emerged in the Sun on Monday, the squad did have the day off on the Saturday and the FA are upset and will now review how the squad spend their free time on international duty and Mourinho is furious about it.

Is it just me or is this just one massive over-reaction?!

 

[m8h3r]

Is it just me or does everyone wish the sun would just do one?

 

[Brend]

Is it just me or does everyone wish the sun would just do one?

That wretched rag should be gone by now.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Steven Gerrard has began preliminary talks with MK Dons over the clubs vacant managers position...

 

[MUSC4EVER]

So another international break has gone (thank Christ!) normal Football will resume this weekend and here are the games.

Saturday
Crystal Palace v Man City
Everton v Swansea
Man United v Arsenal (12.30 Sky)
Southampton v Liverpool
Stoke v Bournemouth
Sunderland v Hull
Tottenham v West Ham (5.30 BT)
Watford v Leicester

Sunday
Middlesbrough v Chelsea (4pm Sky)

Monday Night
West Brom v Burnley

Missing the United game because of work, wont tape it or anything as I'm not that bothered tbh...

 

[Sureboss]

@Liquid

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38014171

 

[mustafur]

So Leipzig just beat Laverkusen at the Bay Arena to go 3 points ahead.

 

[Brend]

Does this count as being Whammed?

Celtic win 1-0, 7 consecutive clean sheets. 13 points clear.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

So United and Swansea were 1-0 up until they conceded 88th minute equalizers and Swans drop to the bottom

 

[Phoenix]

Really pleased with the performance Real showed today away against Atletico Madrid.

Dominated the match, outplayed and demolished them with 3 goals to 0.

Of course the main man Ronaldo stepped up and put all 3 goals.
But it was really a team victory. Everyone did their part excellent, even though crucial players like Ramos, Pepe, Kroos and Casemiro are out with injury.

Also, Barca dropped 2 points at home earlier against Malaga, which puts Real 4 points clear in La Liga. And still undefeated.

 

[andrea]

That hat-trick describes current Cris very well. Deflected goal, dive, penalty, tap-in. What a player.

 

[Liquid]

Hmm... let me think. I wonder if the picture is a clue?

 

[Phoenix]

That hat-trick describes current Cris very well. Deflected goal, dive, penalty, tap-in. What a player.

Hahaha hater much?

He scored 3 goals, Real Madrid scored 3 goals away against Atletico (which most people say are the best defensive team) and of course people are still bashing him... Come on!

Sure, it was not 3 x 40+ yard longshots that hit the top corner but you really are making me laugh.


But hey, I get alot of enjoyment out of this so keep em coming!

 

[lxmmy]

Atletico (which most people say are the best defensive team)

They are defensively average this season and Simeone's tactics are just no longer working for them plus he could be on the end of the sack this season. They are relying heavily on Carrasco and Griezman to score them the goals while the midfield and defence are not up to scratch plus the players they bought in this summer such as Gameiro and Gaitan are well under performing.

 

[mustafur]

They are defensively average this season and Simeone's tactics are just no longer working for them plus he could be on the end of the sack this season. They are relying heavily on Carrasco and Griezman to score them the goals while the midfield and defence are not up to scratch plus the players they bought in this summer such as Gameiro and Gaitan are well under performing.

What drugs are you on, He got a team that was outside of the top 20 richest clubs in the world to the Champions league final twice in a row, and a league victory against the two most powerful sides in the world.

He is literally the best thing the club has had, the club needs to build it's wealth over a period of time to consistently fight the top 2.

 

[lxmmy]

What drugs are you on, He got a team that was outside of the top 20 richest clubs in the world to the Champions league final twice in a row, and a league victory against the two most powerful sides in the world.

He is literally the best thing the club has had, the club needs to build it's wealth over a period of time to consistently fight the top 2.

Do you even watch Atletico? His style of play is no longer working and I know for sure that he will not adapt and it will just go into decline unless he goes against his ethics of focusing heavily on defending and counter attacks and so what that he managed to get them to final of the Champions league in previous seasons and have won a couple of games against Barca and Real in the past couple of seasons, that's history but it is all about what is happening now and that performance against Real and many other games sealed the fact that those days of almost success are over.

The club is already wealthy as it is but the way he spends that money is questionable. Do you know the player called Jackson Martinez who cost them £35 million was an absolute flop and just buggered off to China just couple of months later. Another one is paying £14 million for Vrsaljko is another questionable one and has only played 2 games so far. For that kind of money he could of bought Florenzi or Lichtsteiner who are miles ahead in terms of quality.

(Lichtsteiner is a free agent next summer)

 

[mustafur]

it is still working in the Champions League though, undefeated leading their group ahead of Bayern isn't all bad.

3rd in the League as well doesn't sound like it's a total failure either.

 

[lxmmy]

it is still working in the Champions League though, undefeated leading their group ahead of Bayern isn't all bad.

3rd in the League as well doesn't sound like it's a total failure either.

What league table are you looking at?

 

[mustafur]

What league table are you looking at?

last week lol, but it's still early and the others still have top 2 smashings to receive.