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prisonermonkeys
For all of two seconds.
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..and? How is that relevant? You're either ahead going into the corner or you're not. Rosberg wasn't. He could see Hamilton and had an acre of room to avoid him.

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prisonermonkeys
Hamilton could have slowed down even further. That's how the move works - you always run deep into the corner to straight-line the apex so that you get better drive coming off the corner. A basic defensive move is to crowd an attacking driver out, filling the space that he is aiming for and compromising his ability to straighten the car up and get away.
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So from now on I take any driver who is behind can just steam up on the inside and expect the lead driver to stay out of their way? You are being frankly ridiculous because of your hatred of one person. You have lost all ability to form a reasoned argument. It's pathetic.
 
I like both drivers but this incident seems to me to be that Lewis was going for the undercut on a nice sharp corner. Nico foresaw the move and deliberately missed the apex, keeping him on the outside and possibly to take a wide exit to put Lewis over the white line, stalling any momentum Lewis would have, thus avoiding a drag race to turn 3.

However, I am not sure if Lewis would be able to see Nico in the mirrors and turned in for the undercut he was planning, only to find Nico where he was least expecting him.

If Nico had been a bit further forward, Lewis would have seen him and backed out of the move, as turn 2 is not a corner for outside heroics (not saying it's impossible), and had a go elsewhere.

So who to blame? Well, I say Nico is at fault for trying to hang Lewis out to dry in the manner he did, looked like he was planning to give a car width on the outside and no more. And Lewis simply could not see Nico, expected him to be at the apex by then, so turned in for the undercut.

I should be a steward :D
 
XJ40
I like both drivers but this incident seems to me to be that Lewis was going for the undercut on a nice sharp corner. Nico foresaw the move and deliberately missed the apex, keeping him on the outside and possibly to take a wide exit to put Lewis over the white line, stalling any momentum Lewis would have, thus avoiding a drag race to turn 3.

However, I am not sure if Lewis would be able to see Nico in the mirrors and turned in for the undercut he was planning, only to find Nico where he was least expecting him.

If Nico had been a bit further forward, Lewis would have seen him and backed out of the move, as turn 2 is not a corner for outside heroics (not saying it's impossible), and had a go elsewhere.

So who to blame? Well, I say Nico is at fault for trying to hang Lewis out to dry in the manner he did, looked like he was planning to give a car width on the outside and no more. And Lewis simply could not see Nico, expected him to be at the apex by then, so turned in for the undercut.

I should be a steward :D
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I doubt Hamilton was going for the undercut, with the advantage he had at the start of the braking zone it would have been easier to drive around the outside.
 
Nessy
What would interest me more, would be Alonso or Vettel in Nico's seat. Would they be walking over Lewis, or would it be the other way around?
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Well clearly based on Nico v's Lewis it would be marginal. No one would be walking over anyone surely we know that based on now as Lewis ain't walking all over Nico for sure, not like how a Number 1 driver should be anyway.

So if Lewis can't walk over Nico then he certainly won't walk all over Vettel or Alonso in the same car.
 
dopedog
Well clearly based on Nico v's Lewis it would be marginal. No one would be walking over anyone surely we know that based on now as Lewis ain't walking all over Nico for sure, not like how a Number 1 driver should be anyway.

So if Lewis can't walk over Nico then he certainly won't walk all over Vettel or Alonso in the same car.
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Would they walk over Lewis though?
 
dopedog
No clearly not, as I've tried to explain.
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Well something doesn't compute then.

We know Lewis hasn't walked over Nico. Yet in a previous post you stated that Vettel and Alonso would maybe walk over Nico in the same car.. And now you're saying that Vettel and Alonso wouldn't walk over Lewis in the same car?

dopedog
I mean Vettel or Alonso in Lewis's seat, we will never know, but could he be dominating Nico? Personally I think yes Vettel in the Merc would be walking all over Nico.
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Nessy
Well something doesn't compute then.

We know Lewis hasn't walked over Nico. Yet in a previous post you stated that Vettel and Alonso would maybe walk over Nico in the same car.. And now you're saying that Vettel and Alonso wouldn't walk over Lewis in the same car.
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No I think Vettel in Lewis's seat would of seen off Nico in the 1st season and made himself a clear No 1 driver and then gone on to walk all over Nico IMO due to team orders etc. Lewis has struggled with Nico a lot more than he should of, possibly for not stamping authority on the team in season 1, you make yourself No1 driver and some drivers are better at that than others..
But for sure Vettel/Alonso would not walk all over Lewis if they were all in Mercs. Lewis can be his own worst enemy and Vettel is the stronger at getting his way and being a Number 1 which Schumacher was also expert at. Doesn't mean he's a better or faster driver but he is very very clever.
 
dopedog
No I think Vettel in Lewis's seat would of seen off Nico in the 1st season and made himself a clear No 1 driver and then gone on to walk all over Nico IMO due to team orders etc.
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I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I think Nico would have held his own if him and Seb were in the same team. Team orders doesn't seem to be the Mercedes way (well not at the moment anyway).
 
Nessy
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I think Nico would have held his own if him and Seb were in the same team. Team orders doesn't seem to be the Mercedes way (well not at the moment anyway).
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Seb has that way about him as did Schumacher before him, Lewis on the salary he's on at Merc plus his bank-ability marketing wise for Merc should have them giving him a better car than his team mate like Seb used to get at Red Bull and possibly still does at Ferrari. Yes Merc are a lot fairer than that but also maybe Lewis should of been a bit more controlled in season one and made it impossible for Merc to allow Nico to ever be in positions to be beating him or challenging him.
Historically looking back on teams they have favored one driver as the lead driver. Merc IMO didn't think they would get two number 1 drivers but they had no choice as Nico kept Lewis so honest.
Also if Merc did driver orders then the last 3 seasons would of been even worse.
 
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Nessy
I still don't agree that Seb would have that power if he were to replace Nico or Lewis.
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Fair enough, we will never know, but thanks for having a mature conversation, rare to not be ridiculed or rubbished for having opinions on Lewis etc. Genuinely cheers.:cheers:

My point with the Merc is that someone like Palmer in the Merc should be putting it in top 5 in Qual and top 5 in race, but if he drove a Merc and didn't come 2nd or 1st hes's basically not good enough. That is how Toto will see the car they have as having to be 1-2 or they are failing, that's how much better it is. Hopefully the rest will catch up.
 
If Hamilton is on track = Hamilton's fault.
If Hamilton is not on track = possibly Hamilton's fault.

Is this how the logic works out?
 
I just didn't know that you could defend your spot by going straight on a turn and forcing the outside driver out of the track...
 
A disgraceful use of poor gamesmanship by Rosberg and he got his just deserts when it all went wrong.

He's a seriously quick driver, no doubting that but I'm not so sure about his temperament in wheel to wheel battles. Especially when the other wheel is Hamilton's. Probably too strong a word but desperation springs to mind and the move he tried reeked of it.
 
Michelin
I just didn't know that you could defend your spot by going straight on a turn and forcing the outside driver out of the track...
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Absolutely. We should be clear in this case that Rosberg was only forcing the outside driver out of the track by driving into the side of his car.
 
I'm pretty sure they can inform drivers of issues on the grounds of safety. Brake issues certainly fall into that category.

Samus
You're either ahead going into the corner or you're not. Rosberg wasn't. He could see Hamilton and had an acre of room to avoid him.
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So, considering the closing speeds and the heavy braking for the corner, what happens when an attacking driver is only ahead momentarily? If a defending move that forces an attacking driver to radically change direction is illegal, then so too is an attacking move that forces a defending driver to radically change direction.
 

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