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As Toto has said there's 1500 people who are behind the Merc dominance, 1500 people who the two pampered drivers owe it to to bring the cars home in 1-2 positions. The ego and the fans bizarre belief the drivers are the special ones is why they get this view of themselves as above the team and do silly things.
Stick Lewis and Nico in the Manor for a season, yes they may be get a 6th place in it as it has a Merc engine unit in the back, but for the most part they will be down the order due to aero limitations and for sure will never win again let alone fight for the WDC.... both utter muppets.

And Nico, Lewis fans shout "but the Merc wins because of the drivers!"... lol.
 
It was more of a meme joke in response to the Kvyat/Verstappen situation after Spain.


Nice photoshop skills you got there... but here is the real foto.

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That's nothing specifically to do with Lewis/Nico as it's pretty much always been the case... the best cars win World Championships most of the time... and the best cars have the best drivers in them most of the time.

Really? I think it's pretty clear the last 3 seasons have been even by recent F1 standards a silly 2 horse race, its been Mercs in their own class.
Only thing thats kept it interesting is the fact Rosburg is so close to Lewis in performance so we have no clear number 2 driver, though Nico is number 2 IMO based on salary so read into that what you wish.
For me that fact Lewis couldn't get a situation like Schumacher and Vettel where he could have a subservient number 2 driver is the only reason this has been fun to watch, its like a soap opera at times with Nico and Lewis.
Part of the reason Lewis hasn't got Nico to be a nice Number 2 driver is that Nico is very close to Lewis in performance despite what people suggest.
So either Nico is a lot better than people give him credit for or Lewis is worse... cross off whichever you think doesn't apply. Either way they both need to pull their heads out of their bottoms and listen to Toto as that man is a true God and Gent and he knows that they are, aside from Lewis's amazing marketability, quite replaceable, especially Nico.

It's pretty clear that Pascal in the Merc could quite easily be in 2nd place to Nico or Lewis provided it stayed on the black stuff.
 
I've been watching F1 for 35 years. The current Merc isn't the most dominant car I've seen in that time (though it is up there!).

Nico is clearly a very good driver... his one lap pace is as good as anyoone, and he's very good at controlling a race from the front when he's not under pressure. But he's not good at handling pressure.

Personally, I think Nico knows in his own mind Lewis is a better racer (though obviously he's not going to admit this in public), and he doesn't like that.

Lewis just makes better decisions in high pressure situations... he knows just how far he can push Nico (both when attacking and defending) without causing them both to crash.

Toto is doing a VERY difficult job, VERY well!
 
I think both Nico and Lewis have strengths and weaknesses on track. They're very close in terms of that, but I think the slightly different skill sets gives Lewis a slight advantage.
 
@Stotty Other than maybe the 1988 McLaren, what cars have been more dominant? Mercedes have the records for the most wins, most pole positions, most podiums and most 1-2s in a season 2 years running. Obviously we have more races per season now and the cars are more reliable so you can't completely go by the stats, but I can't think of a car that's at least been so dominant for so long. Even the Red Bull and the Ferrari in the early 2000's had "off" years (or in other words they didn't win by quite so much :P)
 
As Toto has said there's 1500 people who are behind the Merc dominance, 1500 people who the two pampered drivers owe it to to bring the cars home in 1-2 positions. The ego and the fans bizarre belief the drivers are the special ones is why they get this view of themselves as above the team and do silly things.
Stick Lewis and Nico in the Manor for a season, yes they may be get a 6th place in it as it has a Merc engine unit in the back, but for the most part they will be down the order due to aero limitations and for sure will never win again let alone fight for the WDC.... both utter muppets.

And Nico, Lewis fans shout "but the Merc wins because of the drivers!"... lol.

Is Mercedes in any danger of not winning the constructor championship even after all that happened ?

Nope, so let them fight, let us have fun and please dont come back to stupid procession of the front car not trying anything on each others.
 
@Stotty Other than maybe the 1988 McLaren, what cars have been more dominant? Mercedes have the records for the most wins, most pole positions, most podiums and most 1-2s in a season 2 years running. Obviously we have more races per season now and the cars are more reliable so you can't completely go by the stats, but I can't think of a car that's at least been so dominant for so long. Even the Red Bull and the Ferrari in the early 2000's had "off" years (or in other words they didn't win by quite so much :P)


The Senna/Prost McLaren is the one that sticks in my memory, but there have been other dominant cars (RB with SV, Benetton with MS, Ferrari with MS, active suspension Williams)... but on reflection, probably not as dominant as the Merc :lol:
 
Like I said, the only way Hamilton could have made the pass work was to drive around the outside of Rosberg in a corner where you can't go side-by-side around the outside.

If you actually listened to Hamilton interviews you'll know his plan was to straighten the car up quicker than Rosberg who would be on the tighter line for a faster run into 3. He went as far to the outside as he reasonably could and turned in as late as was reasonable but did not expect Rosberg to plough into him, he expected Rosberg to have turned into the corner, because you know, that is what you're supposed to do.

No, I still think Hamilton bears responsibility, because the first rule of overtaking is that the burden of passing cleanly rests with the attacking driver, and I don't think that Hamilton was far enough ahead to say that he had the position. There have been plenty of defending drivers who have moved back across the way Rosberg did.

Moved back across? Rosberg didn't move anywhere, he went in a straight line towards Lewis. If you watch the slo-mo he didn't turn his wheel until Hamilton had started turning in, so if Hamilton hadn't done that when exactly was Rosberg planning to turn in? Once he had forced Lewis all the way off the track, despite being the car behind? That is still not allowed.

It really doesn't matter if you don't think he was far enough ahead. The rules state that if a driver is fully alongside you have to give him the space.

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Quite clearly Lewis was not just alongside, he was ahead.

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At this point Rosberg has still barely turned in. Where is he expecting Hamilton to have gone? Straight on? Here is an overlay of their trajectories into the turn.

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Hamilton is on a normal wide line into the corner, Rosberg has barely turned in, as I said. His trajectory has him running to the edge of the track, almost always on a trajectory into the outside car. He didn't give him the space.

Plus, Hamilton was apparently told that Rosberg had braking issues. In which parallel universe is trying to out-brake and drive around a car with brake problems at the heaviest braking point on the circuit - and a corner where you can't go around the outside - a good idea?

No he wasn't. Stop trying to put blame on Hamilton in any way you can if you don't even know the facts.

A furious Toto Wolff called the incident “brainless” and said it “could easily have been a double DNF”.

He revealed both cars “were marginal on brakes” but “we couldn’t tell the drivers”. “Nico had a brake-by-wire failure onto the last straight,” he added.
 
He revealed both cars “were marginal on brakes” but “we couldn’t tell the drivers”. “Nico had a brake-by-wire failure onto the last straight,” he added.

I dont believe the radio ban applies to potential life taking issues. Many current F1 rules are stupid but allowing the drivers to crash head-on into a wall at 320 kph because of the radio ban is not one of them-yet.

Also the turn in point on the previous laps for that turn was the last red curb square on the LH side of the track across from that marshal post, Nico clearly went a full car length past that before attempting to turn.
 
At this point Rosberg has still barely turned in. Where is he expecting Hamilton to have gone? Straight on?
Obviously. One of the most basic defensive moves is to leave your opponent with no room to go. Rosberg was clearly trying to force Hamilton to back out, not only to hold the position going through Turn 2, but to limit Hamilton's ability to get away and to try and build a buffer for Turn 3.
 
I've been watching F1 for 35 years. The current Merc isn't the most dominant car I've seen in that time (though it is up there!).

Nico is clearly a very good driver... his one lap pace is as good as anyoone, and he's very good at controlling a race from the front when he's not under pressure. But he's not good at handling pressure.

Personally, I think Nico knows in his own mind Lewis is a better racer (though obviously he's not going to admit this in public), and he doesn't like that.

Lewis just makes better decisions in high pressure situations... he knows just how far he can push Nico (both when attacking and defending) without causing them both to crash.

Toto is doing a VERY difficult job, VERY well!

I don't think there's any question who is the better driver out of Nico and Lewis (the salaries will tell you that for one), but the fact its so marginal is the key thing, I mean Nico is rarely (if ever) considered one of the current greats unlike Alonso/ Vettel / Lewis, so the fact he is so marginal and at times better than Lewis interests me. I mean Vettel or Alonso in Lewis's seat, we will never know, but could he be dominating Nico? Personally I think yes Vettel in the Merc would be walking all over Nico.
 
Obviously. One of the most basic defensive moves is to leave your opponent with no room to go. Rosberg was clearly trying to force Hamilton to back out, not only to hold the position going through Turn 2, but to limit Hamilton's ability to get away and to try and build a buffer for Turn 3.

So you think it's perfectly legitimate to force a driver to go straight on at a right hand turn? Because the F1 rules do not.

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

Hence the resulting penalty:

Having taken note of the extensive evidence given by both drivers and the video and telemetry data, it was apparent that Car 44 (HAM) was in front of Car 6 (ROS) – i.e. more than fully alongside – and that the driver of Car 44 could have clearly made the turn (T2) on the track, if not for the resultant collision. Car 6 did not allow Car 44 “racing room” and hence the driver of Car 6 was responsible for the collision.

So which bit of that do you disagree with?
 
I mean Vettel or Alonso in Lewis's seat, we will never know, but could he be dominating Nico? Personally I think yes Vettel in the Merc would be walking all over Nico.
What would interest me more, would be Alonso or Vettel in Nico's seat. Would they be walking over Lewis, or would it be the other way around?
 
Obviously. One of the most basic defensive moves is to leave your opponent with no room to go. Rosberg was clearly trying to force Hamilton to back out, not only to hold the position going through Turn 2, but to limit Hamilton's ability to get away and to try and build a buffer for Turn 3.

No it's not. It's dirty driving to force other people off of the circuit, this isn't banger racing.
 
What would interest me more, would be Alonso or Vettel in Nico's seat. Would they be walking over Lewis, or would it be the other way around?

Hamilton is the most naturally gifted race car driver on the grid. Vettel and Alonso would give him a run for his money though without having to resort to dodgy tactics like Rosberg, who isn't in the same class as Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.
 
So you think it's perfectly legitimate to force a driver to go straight on at a right hand turn?
Hamilton could have slowed down even further. That's how the move works - you always run deep into the corner to straight-line the apex so that you get better drive coming off the corner. A basic defensive move is to crowd an attacking driver out, filling the space that he is aiming for and compromising his ability to straighten the car up and get away.

Because the F1 rules do not.
So why wasn't Hamilton penalised for it on the first lap in Canada? He did exactly the same thing - he blocked Rosberg and forced him off the track.
 
Hamilton is the most naturally gifted race car driver on the grid. Vettel and Alonso would give him a run for his money though without having to resort to dodgy tactics like Rosberg, who isn't in the same class as Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.
I think they're all in the same class TBH. I could probably think of a couple more too.

[edit]

One may be better than the over when it comes to certain things, and visa-versa. It really is close (IMO). 👍
 
So why wasn't Hamilton penalised for it on the first lap in Canada? He did exactly the same thing - he blocked Rosberg and forced him off the track.

Oh, come now. You know the answer to that.

The stewards will hardly ever penalize the leading driver for a hard defense. Not unless he's on a straight and squeezing the following driver into a wall.

But they will always penalize the following driver for punting the leading driver off midcorner.
 
Hamilton could have slowed down even further. That's how the move works - you always run deep into the corner to straight-line the apex so that you get better drive coming off the corner. A basic defensive move is to crowd an attacking driver out, filling the space that he is aiming for and compromising his ability to straighten the car up and get away.

Yes, when you are the car ahead. Rosberg was not, he was behind, in a position where Hamilton couldn't see him. That is the big difference. That defensive move works when you're ahead and the following driver can see what you're doing.

So why wasn't Hamilton penalised for it on the first lap in Canada? He did exactly the same thing - he blocked Rosberg and forced him off the track.

Because the difference is Lewis took the normal racing line through the corner (albeit from a tight entry), hitting the apex and then running towards the apex of 2. He didn't do anything abnormal to force him off the track.
 
Would be nice if the rules were "Always leave room for a car along side you." No turning in on them from the outside or running them off the track when you are on the inside.

It is a shame that Rosie and Louise can't drive without constantly feeling the need to have a mid-race kiss and cuddle.

Nico was being a bit loose with his defence, but Lewis did elect to turn in on Nico from the outside (Jerez 1997 style!) rather than pulling an awesome "wall of death" on the outside edge of the track.

But would Nico have given Lewis a car and half worth of room on the corner exit? Doubtful. We already know that Lewis wouldn't.

They may be fast, but both of them lack quality that would put them into the same elite level as a Maldonado or a de Cesaris - but if Rosie and Louise keep up their handbags at dawn, then maybe they will be.
 
For all of two seconds.
Wow, you just literally make it up as you go along don't you? So if a driver took the lead of the race in the last two seconds before crossing the line they wouldn't actually win because you know, 'for all of two seconds.'

As for Canada, Hamilton only did what Rosberg did in 2014.



The huge difference at Canada in both 2014 and 2016 compared to yesterday being that the inside driver was ahead and the shutting of the door happened on corner exit. Yesterday the driver on the outside was ahead and the driver on the inside tried to shut the door on corner entry.
 
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