2016 Rolex Australian Grand Prix

I do agree with most that Max was being a little bit of a baby on the radio, but at the same time, I can't really be mad at him.

He's passionate, and competative, which are both good qualities. It's just a shame he's "mic'd up" all the time. If you favorite footballer, hockey player, basketball player, etc, was mic'dup 100% of the time, you'd hear a lot of very colourful language.

His spin was his fault, but I don't think it's fair to say "he almost binned both TRs"....Sainz had a massive lockup which caused Max to take evasive action. Had they made contact, I would have put the blame 60/40 on Max...but it wasn't 100% on Max.


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Also I was going to say, after seeing it on TV in a race, I'm really warming up to the Redbull livery. The Ferrari looks less impressive than I thought it would, the Renault looks amazing, and the McLaren is growing on me.
 
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TenEightyOne
Not in that video, the car doesn't roll/lift until a couple of feet into the gravel.
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If you look at it frame by frame you can see the car leans over before it gets to the gravel, so the undertray was probably digging into the grass. And when it hit the gravel it sent the car flying.
 
That was an excellent race. A few thoughts;

Excellent result from Haas. I thought Romain Grosjean had stuffed his career by jumping from Lotus to Haas, really pleased to see them be very competitive.

Excellent results also from Rosberg and Ricciardo. Hoping the end of last year showed to Rosberg that he does have what it takes to win a championship.

Max Verstappen definitely isn't the finished article. Whether it is because of his young age or not, I don't know. But I think for the meantime Sainz has the cooler head, which will do him favours against his more spectacular and arguably more rapid teammate.

McLaren looking better this year than last - and obviously glad Alonso was unscathed.

Bahrain will be a better indication of where teams are really at.

Lastly, Webber is an excellent commentator. Also glad to see that him and Vettel have let bygones be bygones.
 
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Bo
So, a good driver who succumbed to clumsiness?
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I have to disagree with your assessment of Maldonado here. Last year he wasn't crashing into anyone at all, he was just slow. That's hardly succumbing to clumsiness.


I'm prepared to give Jolyon Palmer a chance, his drive was solid.
 
ShiftingGears
Last year he wasn't crashing into anyone at all, he was just slow. That's hardly succumbing to clumsiness.
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True, but that was one season of several. There had to be an element of confidence issues when you're the joke of the internet and stuck in a car that could barely make it to the midfield.
 
twitcher
I do agree with most that Max was being a little bit of a baby on the radio, but at the same time, I can't really be mad at him.
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He had a valid case until Sainz cleared Palmer. After that, Sainz got clear air, and stopped slowing Verstappen down. At that point, Verstappen should have shut up.
 
Forgot to mention before that it was good to see Renault and also Honda powered cars not get overtaken like they are sitting ducks. They should also become more competitive this season too which can only be a good thing for closer racing.
prisonermonkeys
He had a valid case until Sainz cleared Palmer. After that, Sainz got clear air, and stopped slowing Verstappen down. At that point, Verstappen should have shut up.
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There was potential for 6th place still then.
 
prisonermonkeys
He had a valid case until Sainz cleared Palmer. After that, Sainz got clear air, and stopped slowing Verstappen down. At that point, Verstappen should have shut up.
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I've only heard the radio messages twice now, but of I understood things correctly, once the two had passed Palmer, it seemed that Max was upset he was being told he was not allowed to pass Sainz. The second message where he swore, he said something about "...and now I'm not allowed...". If that actually was the case, I'd be mad too :lol:

Still, all that said, he can be as mad as he wants. He couldn't pass Sainz on track, and the result is what it is.

Edit: just to add, once they cleared Palmer, Max was still all over Sainz. Sainz got stuck behind someone else, and was locking tires left and right. Max nearly hit him on one of the lockups, spun, and then nearly caught up again by the end of the race.
 
twitcher
I've only heard the radio messages twice now, but of I understood things correctly, once the two had passed Palmer, it seemed that Max was upset he was being told he was not allowed to pass Sainz. The second message where he swore, he said something about "...and now I'm not allowed...". If that actually was the case, I'd be mad too :lol:

Still, all that said, he can be as mad as he wants. He couldn't pass Sainz on track, and the result is what it is.

Edit: just to add, once they cleared Palmer, Max was still all over Sainz. Sainz got stuck behind someone else, and was locking tires left and right. Max nearly hit him on one of the lockups, spun, and then nearly caught up again by the end of the race.
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He was never told he couldn't pass, Franz said go ahead. As in "go ahead and pass him Max if you are indeed that much faster, but don't ask me to have him pull over so you can do it."

As for the locking left and right...we only saw one lock up, not sure what feed showed you multiple. They were exchanging faster laps with each other up until Max spun and then suddenly Max began to have times of a eight tenths to a second faster, then the final 3 laps it was an exchange between the two again with as far as lap times went.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
He was never told he couldn't pass, Franz said go ahead. As in "go ahead and pass him Max if you are indeed that much faster, but don't ask me to have him pull over so you can do it."

As for the locking left and right...we only saw one lock up, not sure what feed showed you multiple. They were exchanging faster laps with each other up until Max spun and then suddenly Max began to have times of a eight tenths to a second faster, then the final 3 laps it was an exchange between the two again with as far as lap times went.
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Apparently Sainz was having brake issues for the 2nd half of the race, that is why he was locking up basically every lap.

The train of cars at the end where incredibly slow, but the Medium tyre doesn't have the grip to be close to the car infront off the slow corners at Melbourne so it's incredibly hard to overtake with them.
 
mustafur
Apparently Sainz was having brake issues for the 2nd half of the race, that is why he was locking up basically every lap.

The train of cars at the end where incredibly slow, but the Medium tyre doesn't have the grip to be close to the car infront off the slow corners at Melbourne so it's incredibly hard to overtake with them.
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Once again, I didn't see multiple locks up form him on my feed, just the one causing a closely following Max to spin.

This comment seems better directed at Twitch since he seems to be slighting Sainz on race craft as to where I'm just relaying what the data shows compared with video feeds.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Once again, I didn't see multiple locks up form him on my feed, just the one causing a closely following Max to spin.

This comment seems better directed at Twitch since he seems to be slighting Sainz on race craft as to where I'm just relaying what the data shows compared with video feeds.
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Watch the race again. Sainz had many front locks throughout the whole event. It's why he pitted early in the first place. He also talked about it in the interview afterwards. Not sure what feed you were watching

Edit: and where the hell am I slighting Sainz? I've alrwady said he drove a good race, and that he had every right to defend his position, all I've said is that Max had more raw pace.

Edit 2: Franz said "Go ahead" when they were behind Palmer. The message I'm talking about, where max said "now I'm not allowed" came after they passed Palmer, a few laps before Max spun.
 
twitcher
Watch the race again. Sainz had many front locks throughout the whole event. It's why he pitted early in the first place. He also talked about it in the interview afterwards. Not sure what feed you were watching
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Sky feed, even during the Palmer chase he didn't lock up from what I saw. Also it's the FOM feed so we should all be watching the same feed.

Edit: and where the hell am I slighting Sainz? I've alrwady said he drove a good race, and that he had every right to defend his position, all I've said is that Max had more raw pace.
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The comment on the lock ups come across as if he couldn't drive right, when it was an obvious internal issue out of his hands.

Edit 2: Franz said "Go ahead" when they were behind Palmer. The message I'm talking about, where max said "now I'm not allowed" came after they passed Palmer, a few laps before Max spun.
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No one ever came over radio from what we heard telling him he couldn't but perhaps we should pick this up when the FOM releases all radio transcripts in a couple of days time. The point you missed is that comment (by Verstappen) seems to suggest that without Palmer to play a post on Sainz, there wasn't going to be a way around Carlos now that he had open air.
 
twitcher
Edit 2: Franz said "Go ahead" when they were behind Palmer. The message I'm talking about, where max said "now I'm not allowed" came after they passed Palmer, a few laps before Max spun.
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I presumed he meant he wasn't being allowed straight through, rather than not being allowed to try and overtake at all. If I remember right when they were both still behind Palmer, Carlos was told to push to get past and if he couldn't in the next lap or two they would swap him and Max, which obviously no longer applied when he finally succeeded in getting ahead.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Sky feed, even during the Palmer chase he didn't lock up from what I saw. Also it's the FOM feed so we should all be watching the same feed.
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Then you missed a bunch of his lockups. Go watch the race again if you don't believe me.

The comment on the lock ups come across as if he couldn't drive right, when it was an obvious internal issue out of his hands.
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That was not my intention.

Also, how come you're now saying an internal issue caused the lockups, when you just said you didn't see any lock ups?

No one ever came over radio from what we heard telling him he couldn't but perhaps we should pick this up when the FOM releases all radio transcripts in a couple of days time. The point you missed is that comment (by Verstappen) seems to suggest that without Palmer to play a post on Sainz, there wasn't going to be a way around Carlos now that he had open air.
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Lap 47, after they have cleared Palmer, and are on the tail of Bottas, there is a message from Max saying, "The whole race I've been pulling away, and now you don't let me pass, it's a 🤬 joke. Really!"

Whether or not that message actually happened on lap 47, or if it was clever editing by the director, I can't be sure. Without complete context, it's tough to tell exactly what Max meant, but it could be interpreted as the team not giving him permission to attack Sainz. It could also just be that Max is upset the team is not telling Carlos to move aside.
 
twitcher
Then you missed a bunch of his lockups. Go watch the race again if you don't believe me.
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Never said I didn't believe you, just said there was a reason if he did have them. I said I missed the others so I can't comment on what I didn't see other than a supposed brake issue he had.

That was not my intention.

Also, how come you're now saying an internal issue caused the lockups, when you just said you didn't see any lock ups?
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Where do I say I didn't see any lockups? I saw the one that caused the most controversy within the team and have said that from the onset. I say it is internal based on what I read after watching the race. Since one doesn't have to simply watch the race to know what happened, there was more to it and it was explained afterward on F1 sites.

Lap 47, after they have cleared Palmer, and are on the tail of Bottas, there is a message from Max saying, "The whole race I've been pulling away, and now you don't let me pass, it's a 🤬 joke. Really!"
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That is not the team, that's yet again Max that's not what I'm talking about. Read my comments again.

Whether or not that message actually happened on lap 47, or if it was clever editing by the director, I can't be sure. Without complete context, it's tough to tell exactly what Max meant, but it could be interpreted as the team not giving him permission to attack Sainz. It could also just be that Max is upset the team is not telling Carlos to move aside.
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It most likely didn't because there is no real time feed for FOM allowed radio messages, hence why the one where Max used expletives was already censored. A live message wouldn't have had that. And the FOM has been known for sometime and I believe formulaone.com even states it, that messages are delayed.

However, we can deduce context and get a relative idea, I don't see it being all that tough. I already did just that in a previous comment so wont repeat myself. But more or less that is exactly what I said about Max on his attitude with the situation. He seemed to want the team to move Carlos aside for him, Franz wasn't going to, but he got permission to fight for position.
 
twitcher
I've only heard the radio messages twice now, but of I understood things correctly, once the two had passed Palmer, it seemed that Max was upset he was being told he was not allowed to pass Sainz.
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The way I interpreted it was that the team was going to let Verstappen pass Sainz if Sainz couldn't get past Palmer. However, if Sainz were to get past Palmer - as he did - then Verstappen was not going to be let past. It seems to me that Verstappen was upset because he thought he was going to be let past, but then he wasn't, probably because he caught Palmer so quickly (which was more a by-product of Sainz passing him than anything else).
 
Well, that was an interesting race. Hamilton got bogged down at the start, Kvyat didn't even start, Kimi's gearbox caught fire, Alonso had one of the worst crashes in F1 history making front-page news, Ricciardo finished 4th and Grosjean finished 6th for Haas. Rosberg wins. No races were like that last year...
 
Max was acting like a small kid, but if his team didn't mess up his last stop he would have been in front of Sainz and all this BS over the radio could have been avoided.
Can understand his frustration. Sainz did have a lock up every lap'in the second part of the race.
He was quicker during most of the race and after his spin he was back behind Sainz in no time. But overtaking seems to be difficult this year again.

For the rest an interesting race, didn't fall asleep for once. Happy to see Alonso crawling away from that massive accident. Great result for Haas in there first race. Raikkonen cool as ever. Ferrari should have used different strategy, but always easy to say afterwards.

Bring on the next race.
 
prisonermonkeys
The way I interpreted it was that the team was going to let Verstappen pass Sainz if Sainz couldn't get past Palmer. However, if Sainz were to get past Palmer - as he did - then Verstappen was not going to be let past. It seems to me that Verstappen was upset because he thought he was going to be let past, but then he wasn't, probably because he caught Palmer so quickly (which was more a by-product of Sainz passing him than anything else).
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I saw it as Torro Rosso saying "If you can do it then do it, but we won't make him let you".
 
I know the red flag did mix thing up and made the race intersting, but isn't supposed to mean that the cars should be in complete stop and not allowed to do or make any changes whether it's tyres or anything else ? :nervous:
 
Betty blue
I know the red flag did mix thing up and made the race intersting, but isn't supposed to mean that the cars should be in complete stop and not allowed to do or make any changes whether it's tyres or anything else ? :nervous:
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No, under a Redflag teams are allowed to do what they want to the car, up until the warning that race is proceeding again.

A few years ago at the Monaco GP Mclaren even replaced a Rear wing in a red flag session.
 
Betty blue
I know the red flag did mix thing up and made the race intersting, but isn't supposed to mean that the cars should be in complete stop and not allowed to do or make any changes whether it's tyres or anything else ? :nervous:
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In Nascar that is a rule, Formula One is different. As stated above me.
 
Saidur_Ali
Forgot to mention before that it was good to see Renault and also Honda powered cars not get overtaken like they are sitting ducks. They should also become more competitive this season too which can only be a good thing for closer racing.
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The straights at Melbourne aren't very long. It'll be a completely different story in Bahrain and China
 
Eventually managed to watch the race myself. Thank god Fernando walked away from that crash, I can't remember the last time I watched a crash that bad.
I do think that there's a good chance of a Ferrari vs Mercedes battle this year but I'll wait for the start of the European races to fully judge performances. Also massively pleased for Haas on their debut, Romain did a great job to finish 6th.
Much better race than last years so now I have my fingers crossed that we have an exciting season to watch.
 

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