2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1 

I've seen more than enough to believe that isn't the case though. They have admitted things like only ever dyno testing 1 cylinder at a time prior to assembly, which is crazy to me. Vibrations shouldn't cause as many issues as they have this season either, that has very little to do with anything on McLaren's side. I thought the size zero philosophy was abandoned ahead of the 2016 season anyway?
 
TenEightyOne
McLaren F1 made a $6mil loss in 2016. All may not be quite as it appears due to much of the loss being chalked up to investment in future projects but it's still a mighty headline figure.
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This is still a bit startling when you consider Honda has been giving them free engines, on top of paying half the drivers' salaries and providing primary sponsorship. Just the engines alone were quoted as a humongous savings, so it kinda makes me wonder how much non-Honda money they've had coming in... if any.
 
EngieDiesel
This is still a bit startling when you consider Honda has been giving them free engines, on top of paying half the drivers' salaries and providing primary sponsorship. Just the engines alone were quoted as a humongous savings, so it kinda makes me wonder how much non-Honda money they've had coming in... if any.
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Lots, it seems... but as you can see they've made massive investments in other areas. With a company the size of McLaren it's sometimes better to look at three or five year performance rather than a single year. I suspect that McLaren are taking he headline hit this year in anticipation of sunnier days.
 
Understandable enough.

Having someone on your team with that amount of insight though would be invaluable, especially after being given his marching orders so soon beforehand.
 
Budget capping again?

Hmm... this'll be fun to watch.

LastingQuestionableCamel-size_restricted.gif
 
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[Nor]MclarenF1
That's rather unexpected, considering the latest trend with both Porsche and Mercedes going all in on FE.
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Errmm... it's not THAT big of a surprise. After the new regs came in for 2014 and Red Bull made Renault look like incompetent fools I think that marked a pretty sizeable shift in what they do with motorsport.
They seemed to have two options, do both and be unable to fully commit to F1, which has a bigger audience and impact, or go all in and try to compete at the top.

I'm glad they chose to go all in, they have done well in FE, but with a couple of handy drivers a new works team is very much welcome
 
Here's a good question, what do you think the average order of the grid will be next season?
This year, the Constructors Championship is this, and is really split into a few tiers.
  1. Mercedes - Top
  2. Ferrari - Top
  3. Red Bull - Top
  4. Force India - Front-Mid
  5. Williams - Mid
  6. Toro Rosso - Mid
  7. Renault - Mid
  8. Haas - Mid-rear
  9. McLaren - Mid (when working)
  10. Sauber - Rear
What do you think it'll be next season? This is what I see it being.
  1. Mercedes - Top
  2. Red Bull - Top
  3. Ferrari - Top
  4. McLaren - Top
  5. Renault - Front-Mid
  6. Force India - Front-Mid
  7. Williams - Mid
  8. Toro Rosso - Mid
  9. Haas - Rear
  10. Sauber - Rear
I feel like the Renault powered teams should all be pretty similar now they're all going to have got it together. Red Bull will leapfrog Ferrari, but the top 3 should be really close. I feel like Force India won't fall back, they'll just have bigger team fighting them. I fear for Williams and Haas, they'll likely slip back. Toro Rosso could go anywhere really as we don't know what Honda will do. Sauber should be closer to the points, but still will be at the back.
 
Jimlaad43
Here's a good question, what do you think the average order of the grid will be next season?
This year, the Constructors Championship is this, and is really split into a few tiers.
  1. Mercedes - Top
  2. Ferrari - Top
  3. Red Bull - Top
  4. Force India - Front-Mid
  5. Williams - Mid
  6. Toro Rosso - Mid
  7. Renault - Mid
  8. Haas - Mid-rear
  9. McLaren - Mid (when working)
  10. Sauber - Rear
What do you think it'll be next season? This is what I see it being.
  1. Mercedes - Top
  2. Red Bull - Top
  3. Ferrari - Top
  4. McLaren - Top
  5. Renault - Front-Mid
  6. Force India - Front-Mid
  7. Williams - Mid
  8. Toro Rosso - Mid
  9. Haas - Rear
  10. Sauber - Rear
I feel like the Renault powered teams should all be pretty similar now they're all going to have got it together. Red Bull will leapfrog Ferrari, but the top 3 should be really close. I feel like Force India won't fall back, they'll just have bigger team fighting them. I fear for Williams and Haas, they'll likely slip back. Toro Rosso could go anywhere really as we don't know what Honda will do. Sauber should be closer to the points, but still will be at the back.
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Spot on !?. Each team has its own (high) ambitions. Red Bull said they not only want Max to be the youngest World Champion for the next two years. They also go for the Constructors title...Duh...But if they and others like Ferrari and Mercedes won't believe in that they can better stop developing and investing. Easy answer: time will tell...
 
New engine formula announced, 1.6l V6s remain but with 3000rpm more (for the sound) and no more MGU-H units. Improved MGU-K units in their place with driver-deployable boost. BBC.

  • 1.6-litre V6 turbo hybrid.
  • Engines running 3,000rpm faster to improve sound.
  • The removal of the MGU-H, the part of the hybrid system that recovers energy from the turbo and which is largely responsible for muting the sound made by the current engines.
  • A more powerful MGU-K - which recovers energy from the rear axle - to make up the loss in hybrid energy from the MGU-H and with the option for a driver to save up energy over a number of laps to add a tactical element to the racing.
  • A single turbo with constraints on dimensions and weight.
  • Standard battery and control electronics.
  • Research into tightening up fuel regulations
EDIT: And a slightly more comprehensive list from Sky:
  • The 2021 power unit to be a 1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid
  • 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound
  • Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions
  • Removal of the MGU-H
  • More powerful MGU-K with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing
  • Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits
  • Standard energy store and control electronics
  • High Level of external prescriptive design to give 'Plug-And-Play' engine/chassis/transmission swap capability
  • Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used
It's important to read Toto Wolff's comments, this certainly isn't a done deal for Mercedes.

Wolffinator
It is important to define all together what Formula 1 should be in 2021, not just from the point of view of the engine. What we have is the starting point of a dialogue rather than something we have agreed to.

The concept sounds similar to what we have now. But it means a completely new development that will mean we are working on two engines at the same time between 2018 and 2020.

I just want to make it clear that there are different opinions. It was a presentation by the F1 management, not the manufacturer. We will now wait and see what will be put on the table next week and start a dialogue from there.
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I like it. I think Honda joined a few years too early. This formula would work wonders for them since they don't have to work with the MGU-H nonsense.
 
Liking those ideas here too. The extra 3K in RPM should definitely improve the sound, as should the scrapping of the MGU-H. Should hopefully mean those V6's have more of a visceral, "shouty" sound. Mind, after 3 years, I kind of warmed to how the current engines sound, sure the V10's were astonishing, but the V6's don't sound too bad. In fact the Ferrari and Honda unit's sound quite nice I think.

But going back to the regs themselves, the "simplifying" of the hybrid part should hopefully make thinks a little easier on the cost and development front too.
 
Sounds good to me. I particularly like the possible strategical element of saving up harvested energy over multiple laps for manual deployment.
 
I'm not a fan, I think it's a step backwards in terms of what the advancements in technology have achieved, but I can see why it's being done. Definitely don't want F1 going the way LMP1 is right now, so, I will wait and watch how this plays out.
 
TenEightyOne
New engine formula announced, 1.6l V6s remain but with 3000rpm more (for the sound) and no more MGU-H units. Improved MGU-K units in their place with driver-deployable boost. BBC.

  • 1.6-litre V6 turbo hybrid.
  • Engines running 3,000rpm faster to improve sound.
  • The removal of the MGU-H, the part of the hybrid system that recovers energy from the turbo and which is largely responsible for muting the sound made by the current engines.
  • A more powerful MGU-K - which recovers energy from the rear axle - to make up the loss in hybrid energy from the MGU-H and with the option for a driver to save up energy over a number of laps to add a tactical element to the racing.
  • A single turbo with constraints on dimensions and weight.
  • Standard battery and control electronics.
  • Research into tightening up fuel regulations
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All good news, particularly the extra 3,000rpm and scrapping of the MGU-H. In my opinion, the MGU-H has been the primary cause of noise and reliability issues since the V6 engines were introduced. The only thing not mentioned though is the fuel flow limit. If they don't scrap or increase that, the extra 3,000rpm is useless.. . I am very excited to hear these engines running mechanical anti-lag though
 
CarreraGT
The only thing not mentioned though is the fuel flow limit.
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It's all deliberately vague. That's mostly to stop proper designs being made before "new partners" have a chance to commit to a design program too. They mention "further research" into the fuel regulations, I'm pretty sure we'll see something very similar to what we have in place now.

EDIT: Some more info available from Sky plus a lukewarm quote from Toto Wolff. I've edited into my original post on the subject.
 
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All those extra revs won't do much if the fuel flow limit doesn't rise. The current engines get 15,000 but it doesn't even matter.

Honestly I'm a little upset they're sacrificing efficiency a bit for the sake of louder engines. I know this would benefit everyone in terms of parity, and mitigate annoying penalties, but it feels like a technological step backwards, which F1 doesn't usually make. The new regs definitely sound more inviting to new suppliers though.
 

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