2017 Formula 1 Azerbaijan Grand PrixFormula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Haitauer
i think Hamiltons (engine)brake checking was potentially much more dangerous.
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It's so confusing to me that 5 days after the stewards categorically said Lewis DIDN'T do this (first mentioned in this thread by @DQuaN a full 11 pages ago, and repeated a whole bunch of times after), that anyone can still think this happened.

I've never, ever heard the phrase "engine brake checking" used in motorsport. Maybe if Jean-Marie Balestre was still around (and Vettel was French) I could believe that could become a real penalty reason.

nascarfan1400
They shouldnt open up an issue that already closed. The penalty was already given. If they feel 10 seconds is too soft then they should have made it a post race investigation and dealt with it that way. Once the penalty is issued its case closed as far as I see it. Anything past this point is unfair.
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As Buxton said in his blog, if the FIA decided to DSQ Vettel from Baku, then it wouldn't be an additional penalty, they would effectively be overruling the stewards' original one. It would make an exampleout of Vettel's behaviour, and draw a line under the matter.

Dhalism
It's still fun. How often do you get a GP that is still being discussed a week after the fact. Ongoing storylines is what makes F1 great.
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In a "any publicity is good publicity" type way, I guess that's true......but how far does that go? Does more incidents like this = more fun? If it's making the sport better, should it be encouraged? What about the extreme example of F1 controversy - Spygate got a lot of people talking, including plenty of non-F1 people. Was that great for F1?

I'd like to think it is possible for the sport to tell great stories without drivers having to behave like total eejits.
 
Touring Mars
You probably should have... your view is the same as that already expressed by others here, so clearly that is what it looked like to many people, but it is a view that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


Nice data - where did you get it?
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Lewis Hamilton's Twitter account. :D

Well, actually, @Lewis_Hamilton_ posted it first.

Supposedly a trace generated from data from the official app.

Also here:
 
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Touring Mars
Ah, right... a nice unbiased source then? :lol:

Maybe Sebastian Vettel will tweet his steering telemetry at some point?!
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Hahaha... That would probably boost ratings among the 18-25 year old cohort.

Still, can't vouch for the accuracy of the graph, but it's pretty much what we saw in the onboards.

Vettel has got to get really contrite in the next few days to minimize damage at the hearings.
 
You know what the worst thing about this is - the cameras used. The FIA seem to choose between T-Cam or that awful over-the-shoulder camera. With the second one, you can only see one side of the car, and not the hands on the wheel. If the broadcast showed us the T-Cam view of Vettel in the accident, we would all know what steering Seb was doing during the incident. But no, we're left in the dark as no camera shots show his right arm.

The cars appear to be either T-Cam or over-the-shoulder, which is terrible, especially when it comes to watching a crash or a pole lap. I want to be able to see what happened, or every apex on right bends, not a close-up of the side of the car. Scrap the over-the-shoulder's and go back to every car having their T-Cam broadcast. We also need more on-board broadcasting in Practice and Quali. I remember watching practice this year in Australia, waiting for an on-board of a car going through 11-12, but I never saw one. Everyone seems to moan about the on-board cameras not giving a sense of speed, but I'd rather see clearly what's going on than a shaky thing that looks quicker...
 
Jimlaad43
If the broadcast showed us the T-Cam view of Vettel in the accident, we would all know what steering Seb was doing during the incident. But no, we're left in the dark as no camera shots show his right arm.
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If you think about it, it still probably wouldn't shed any light on it. His right hand would have been on the wheel whether he intentionally steered into Hamilton or whether the car just reacted to something else. It wouldn't have shown intention.
 
Why would Hamilton brake check someone and put himself, the race leader, at risk? F1 cars are very delicate. Vettel can lose a bit of front wing and change that in a few seconds, but at what cost? Risking losing your rear wing or diffuser damage?

Hamilton had no valid reason, nor was there any evidence of brake checking. The only proof people have is the fact that he is in fact Lewis Hamilton.
 
I mentioned it earlier, but I don't see a difference between this and Senna Prost '90 at Japan. (Apart from obvious safety car)

Seb got a penalty, served it, that should be the end of it no?
 
TheCracker
IHis right hand would have been on the wheel whether he intentionally steered into Hamilton or whether the car just reacted to something else
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He often travels at a couple of hundred miles an hour in the same car, I think we can rule out Lada Riva style play in the steering.

United6694
Seb got a penalty, served it, that should be the end of it no?
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No, the stewards' decision isn't final, serious rule breaches (particularly disrepute breaches) don't even have to be handled by the stewards. As it was they gave an in-race penalty but that doesn't mean Vettel's case is closed at that point.
 
BrainsBush
We and also the FIA knows that this was not the first 'incident of frustration' of Vettel (no matter if he is right or wrong he should temper his emotions also in the heat of the moment and even with high adrenaline otherwise he and Arrivabene should follow the anger management course).

That he got a penalty during the race will defenitely be taken into consideration when the wise men debate about this matter.
I think after the race also other teams and other high placed F1 stakeholders were asked about their opinion about this incident and FIA had to simply start so called further investigation.

Unfortunate for Vettel and the audience because it is good to see the rivalry at the top and you do not want to win or lose by judges decisions. It has to happen on the tracks within the difficult rules
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Vettel dun goofed! I believe the reason this happened is because Hamilton mugged him off on the first restart when Vettel was caught napping ( quite an amateurish mistake to make ) and left for dead. He didn't want to be caught out again and was focused on staying on Hamiltons tail. Was just an embarrassing mistake but his reaction ( possibly caused by his own embarrassment ) was really really amateurish.

Dhalism
It's still fun. How often do you get a GP that is still being discussed a week after the fact. Ongoing storylines is what makes F1 great.
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Tbh F1 has been incredibly boring off track and on track for years. I find Hamilton as well as unlikable, F1 needs some character and drama thrown into its stars. People are starting to not care about F1, i could talk to most people about F1 after a race. Now no one discusses it with me bare 1 friend. I think when the season is over they should all be sent into the celebrity big brother house.
 
Funny to see all the f1 engineers here who see things "better" than "usual" people. :lol:

To say the truth i dont give a... whose fault it was. Just want to see entertaining F1.. :lol: if someone wishes to thinks my OPINION is wrong, please do. :lol:​
 
I see many fickle minds, "F1 needs this drama" or "F1 has been boring for year and hasn't had this drama"

Like really? Nico v. Hamilton pass 3 years could make a sizable book, Max Verstappen dramas of last year, Kvyat being shifted from his team, Ricciardo struggles last year. The surprising and unexpected retirement of the 2016 WDC a few days after winning the title. The illegal tire test and fall out Mercedes did under Brawn, the switch of Lewis to Mercedes, the switch with Alonso back to McLaren, McLaren and their Honda woes. RBR and their woes with Renault and ultimately staying with Renault but branding the engine something else. Ricciardo beating Vettel the 4 WDC in his first year at RBR. Sebs switch to Ferrari and the Schumacher parallels made. I could go on and on but this is just stuff from the last 3-4 years in very simplified expression. I don't know what type of drama people are looking for, Kardashian style, cause if so then go watch NASCAR and their WWE gimmicks but there is plenty of drama and passion in F1 and has been.

Also is this not drama enough, the most controversial and untalked about wreck of the weekend.
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Well, thinking about this more, they pretty much have to give Vettel a harsher penalty.
Otherwise I think we'll start seeing this stuff more and that would be definitely dangerous. I know these drivers are smart and wouldn't normally put themselves and others in danger, but in the heat of the battle...


I think FIA must make absolutely clear this behavior is completely unacceptable.

At least 1 race ban. Like, honestly that just doesn't fly. I don't think I have seen something like that before - yes I've seen the Schumacher / Villeneuve thing, but that wasn't as blatant imo. And not under safety car conditions (I don't think?).

Btw, huge Schumacher fan, but I was really mad at him, that was just a huge no no (also a Villeneuve fan back then, lol)
 
prisonermonkeys
Are they chest-bumping (and if so, why?), or have they genuinely not seen each other and walked straight into one another?
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I'm glad someone bought this up because I witnessed it live and wondered what happened. They genuinely ran full pelt into each other.
 
So in other words if Hamilton or anyone else does something that boils over for Seb, he'll be on his final strike, and probably get more than a race ban...
 

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