Formula 1 2017 Formula 1 Azerbaijan Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Jimlaad43, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Ryk

    Ryk

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    SO Vettel pulls a comfortable 2 point lead in the points (9) over Palmer and Sainz who are tied with a mere 7 points...
     
  2. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    I thought we'd see another time penalty but I think they've reached the right decision. His commitment (compulsory community service maybe?) to the lower formula's should have a good knock on effect for the up and coming drivers but the spotlight (scrutiny) on him for the rest of the season worries me in case it takes the edge off his wheel to wheel fights. Hopefully, it won't.
     
  3. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

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    Not entirely no further action.

    He got given community service. :lol:
     
  4. TRGTspecialist

    TRGTspecialist

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    You don't say. :lol:
     
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  5. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    Does that mean there's a driver who has to do less work with the FIA Road Safety advocate stuff than Pastor Maldonado?
     
  6. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    Lewis liked this post:

    Screenshot_2017-07-03-20-21-57.png


    Anyway, Happy 30th Birthday Sebastian. Decent gift by FIA of not having to endorse Road Safety this season. Probably best he doesn't play ping pong in upcoming race so he avoids getting a race ban. Cost himself the win at this race, maybe sees too much red since joining Ferrari.
     
  7. GroupB

    GroupB Premium

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  8. VolkswagenX

    VolkswagenX

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    Did they ever ban, fine and deduce points for lewis?

    Edit: here is a link to the penalty standings.

    http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Penalty_points
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  9. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    He already had those points before today's hearing.
     
  10. Betty blue

    Betty blue

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    Fair enough, there's no need for further punishment nor others to push for it so he can get one. He had already served his penalty and he has now made a public apology, but I don't understand to what extent some people want him to get penalized! Yes he overreacted, yes he gets angry and frustrated sometimes and does silly things, but he is honest, and he is showing emotions like anyone of us will do in some of those situations.
     
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  11. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    And Vettel will be back to seven points after the Austrian GP, because the 2 points he received for the shenanigans at the 2016 Silverstone GP will be gone then.
     
  12. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

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    I don't understand why people are saying he hasn't been punished and he got away with it, or why so many people have a crystal ball that tells them Hamilton would have got a much worse punishment.
     
  13. Akmuq

    Akmuq

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    They watch Sky F1.
     
  14. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    It's all a conspiracy. French shouldn't be allowed to run the FIA, Italians shouldn't be allowed to enter F1, Germans shouldn't be allowed to compete. European bureacrats all of them! Let's Brexit F1 too :D
     
  15. AudiMan2011

    AudiMan2011 Contributing Writer

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    If the incident had been done at race speeds and Hamiliton was forced to retire, then there would have been grounds to have Vettel excluded. The contact happened at a slow enough speed that no cars were spat into the wall, therefore the 10 second stop/go was a sufficient enough penalty. There was no need to look into it further IMO.
     
  16. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The bigger the penalty he gets, the better the advantage Hamilton has. As it is, Vettel leads the championship; if he were excluded or disqualified, Hamilton would be the leader. If he were banned from competing in Austria, Hamilton would have a shot at a free twenty-five points. Why do you think Hamilton was lobbying over the radio during the race? He wanted a virtual safety car instead of an actual safety car because under VSC his lead would not be under threat. And he wanted Vettel to take a bigger penalty at the time to get an advantage over him.
     
  17. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Uh no, considering Hamilton got easy restarts due to controlling the pace as leader, he was never under threat from Vettel it's a lose and presumptuous argument considering how well this race was combed over due to a certain incident. The reason Hamilton wanted a worse penalty for Vettel due to the incident was because he found it unfair, that his race was destroyed due to something out of his hands, and a guy that ruined his own race (Seb) essentially got a penalty and still came out ahead at the end of the day.

    Call it what you will, but for what transpired and then what really came of it, wasn't quite a punishment. I don't know of too many here arguing against Seb over this entire incident that are doing so with a benefit going to Lewis.
     
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  18. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    On any other circuit, I would agree with you. But around Baku, a driver is more exposed down the main straight than at any other venue. The leader might have the advantage of setting the pace, but even if the following driver misses the jump, they can catch up.

    He didn't have too much of a problem with it when he passed the safety car in Valencia, took a penalty for it and suffered no net loss. He might have a point if the contact with Vettel had damaged the pins holding the headrest in place, but that was an entirely separate issue.

    When the stewards handed the penalty to Hamilton, Ferrari saw an opportunity - that if Vettel could build up enough of a buffer, he could come out ahead of Hamilton. We see it all the time when drivers get time penalties and immediately push to build up cushion and keep their position.

    His race was also destroyed by something out of Vettel's hands. It was Mercedes' mistake that ruined Hamilton's race, so why should Vettel pay for it?

    In the eyes of the stewards, it was. If Mercedes had put the headrest in properly, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And if Hamilton wants to complain that another driver from another team didn't get penalised enough because of a mistake his own team made, then he might as well concede the title this year.
     
  19. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

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    Would the damage to the diffuser cause any issues had the red flag not come out?
     
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  20. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Evidently not, since you cannot change a diffuser the way you would a front wing. They didn't touch it during the red flag. I'm pretty sure that it's a part of the floor, and changing it would probably mean removing the gearbox at least and possibly taking the rear wing and parts of the rear suspension apart. It's a massive job and probably not one that could be done in the lane like that.

    Even then, Vettel was specifically punished for the second contact when he was alongside Hamilton. He would need to be given a penalty for the first contact as well, but that has apparently been dismissed as a racing incident. If the stewards didn't punish it for him then and didn't hand out any further penalty for the second contact, then I doubt they will revisit the first contact again.

    Furthermore, I think issuing another penalty would set a very poor precedent. The FIA would be doing it to ease popular discontent that Vettel took a gross penalty but got a net gain. Since the circumstances of Hamilton's penalty were beyond Vettel's influence, penalising Vettel again would be a case of rewarding whoever cried the loudest and for longest.
     
  21. niky

    niky Moderator

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    That action merited a docking of points from the race entirely, buuuut...

    The FIA are not going to want to do anything that will swing the outcome of the championship so wildly. Hell, they let Bottas get away with a little Crashtor Maldonado action on Kimi. The subjectivity of the rulings do suck, but Vettel did suffer from what he did, and those lost points may come back to bite him near the end of the season, where he may face grid penalties due to having used more components than most of the other front runners, and he will want/need every point he can get.

    It's going to be an interesting back half to the season.
     
  22. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    Mercedes did quite a lot of work on the diffuser during the red flag, they cut some parts out and reinforced what was left with copious amounts of gaffer tape.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  23. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Well, it was nearly 1:00am local time when it happened, so my memory of what was done in the lane is a little hazy.

    Still, even if Mercedes were able to completely change the diffuser, it's a moot point. The initial contact between Hamilton and Vettel was an accident, and there isn't really a case for penalising Vettel for it since if it was considered at the time, it was dismissed. Arbitrarily penalising him now to appease some popular demand that arose due to circumstances completely outside his control sets a very poor precedent.
     
  24. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    I think this is by far the best outcome and hopefully will put all the talk of it to rest (in a few days, at least...). Those saying Vettel has not been punished are probably forgetting he was already punished by a 10 second stop go and 3 penalty points on his license. Yesterday's ruling adds community service to that, along with a public apology for his actions. Plus any further misdemeanor is going to result in an FIA tribunal instantly - Vettel is on probation.

    What were people thinking would happen? They weren't going to ban him for a future race, and a retrospective disqualification from the Azerbaijan results would overrule (and therefore diminish) the actions of the stewards.
     
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  25. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    That Hamilton would become the championship leader.
     
  26. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Seemed fine to me, had quite the gap after the first restart and was on his way after other restarts before having to come in for a team error.


    Yes but the penalty in itself was arguably manufactured in its own timing. Considering that the stewards knew they'd have to call Hamilton in, once they made that order, they decided Vettel next to make sure that his punishment would decrease the chances of running off with the lead. Had the race gone the way most of us think it would have Lewis first and Seb second, they would have done punishment after the race as they said they were going to. The only thing that would have rectified the situation on all ends, would have been to call in Vettel first to serve the penalty, then Lewis.

    No, not the point. You do something like what Vettel did you shouldn't at the end of the day come out of ahead of your opponent for such action. In reality all Vettel has to do is see an anger management counselor and drive the rest of the season without incident. Because he basically got the equivalent of a stern finger waging. I too don't think a race ban was merited but any other series and in the past this series have made such actions a dsq, if it happened so what Vettel was in the wrong should have never done it, and that's the price you pay when you think you can act on your own accords in a sanctioned situation.


    I mean you would like that, he has the full right to question why the FIA wouldn't punish further. I don't care about a manufacture show for views. What I care about is drivers racing and doing what they're paid for. Playing bumper cars in the car park with multi million dollar cars (one of which you're not driving obviously) is not up to them, not in the job description and shouldn't warrant a finger wave. Had this been any other driver that wasn't in a shout of the WDC lead I think things would have gone quite different.

    Oh yes how horrible, a guy that decided to be a moron on track with a multi million dollar car cause he had a hissy, loses his wdc lead. The tragedy, the injustice, oh dear.

    Seriously, it's a stupid notion to think that this shouldn't have gone that way had the headrest situation not had happened. Had Vettel won because of simply a headrest and not done his antics, that would be perfectly fine. Being a moron especially of his stature should warrant losing something like the lead, cause clearly he doesn't have the foresight to think about that.

    The fact that I have to argue with you because of your incredible bias, is vastly annoying and old.

    Exactly this, a ban to me would be far too harsh. Going back and saying "well your dsq" would do exactly as you said, undermine and show that media and fans have a major influence to the point, long time stewards of the FIA have to go back on their original judgement. The work had been done and there was no justifiable way to go back.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  27. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    They are separate incidents and need to be judged in isolation by the stewards. As soon as you start letting one verdict affect the other for unrelated incident, bias seeps in.

    Hamilton's issue was arguably more serious. If that headrest had come loose, he would be without the full extent of head protection; if he had an accident and was injured or killed because the stewards were trying to time his penalty to limit Vettel's ability to get an advantage, those stewards could potentially face criminal liability.

    Then do so after the race.
     
  28. Dhalism

    Dhalism

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  29. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    It did when the call was made from post race judgement to a decision as soon as it seemed Hamilton was going to have to come in on a safety issue.

    Gee considering his hans device is literally hard latched to that portion and there were other pinned areas of it on the car, I find it hard to see it coming up any more than it did. And being "arguably more serious", what I do understand is there are rules, they are put their for driver and spectator safety and should be followed, thus the call for Hamilton to come in had to be done. As for the extreme narrative your trying to create...just no.

    Why? I see no issue about when or where he questioned it. Seems like conjecture and splitting hairs at this point.
     
  30. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    When Alonso had his testing accident, I remember reading about the headrests. The FIA mandates three different densities of energy-absorbing foam, nominating the mandatory variety. It was theorised (though never confirmed) that Alonso sustained his injury because he used the wrong headrest. So you might find it extreme, but the FIA take it seriously.

    He didn't question it. He offered the opinion that Vettel's penalty was too lenient. But he had no idea what Vettel was thinking or doing at the time, so how could he reasonably say that Vettel was deserving of a particular penalty?