2017 Rolex Daytona 24 Hour: Results Inside

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Move wasn't on IMO. To those saying that the #10 ran wide or missed his braking, that's the standard line into the turn. It's a double apex corner with the first apex at the grass, let it run out to the right and then cut back in for the second apex. Every car, every lap, that's how it's done. You can hug the left side the whole way into the corner if you like (as the #5 did) but then there's no way you're properly making the corner, certainly not with room for another car - and that's why I can't agree with the move.


Using my extremely budget ms.paint skills, I put together a comparison of the lines taken during the incident and by the #10 on one of the laps afterwards. The shots are at different zooms, but you can get a good idea of the car placement by looking at the lines in the track:

wiSoW0N.jpg


2HMvV49.jpg


Note that the #10 on it's own takes the exact same line as the #5 was on, because that's the racing line. Also compare the position of the #10 in the final part of both sequences - hugging the white line all the way through like it did and you blow well wide of the corner. Where does that leave the #5? He can't just keep on driving straight ahead, at some point he needs to turn into the corner...

All that aside though, what does my opinion count for? Not much. Rules are rules and in American racing, that sort of move is perfectly legal. Encouraged, even. Which is a real shame, because I think it immensely devalues the genuine skills of passing and defending and in my view, hurts the racing. But that's ok, because I don't make the decisions!

(Had no vested interested in #5 vs #10 and despite the complaints, will still be watching again next time).

Edit: So much lack of care between #5 vs #10 that I even got confused as to which was which.
This is racing though, not time Attack. A driver only gets to take a wide entry to a late apex leaving the inside open if there is not someone on his tail. When there is someone on your tail, especially in the closing laps, you never ever ever leave the inside open, even just a crack.
 
Everyone talking about the "NASCAR Murica bias" because of Jeff Gordon in the 10 are completely ignoring the fact that AXR's team manager Gary Nelson was a long time NASCAR crew chief (a championship winning one at that), technical inspector, and was once the VP of NASCAR R&D. So is it really NASCAR bias if the 10 never got a penalty for contacting the car that from the team managed by a man who was once a part of NASCAR's top brass on the technical side of things?
 
Today's New York Times full page ad.

C3bIhWmXUAAO5vX.jpg


Everyone talking about the "NASCAR Murica bias" because of Jeff Gordon in the 10 are completely ignoring the fact that AXR's team manager Gary Nelson was a long time NASCAR crew chief (a championship winning one at that), technical inspector, and was once the VP of NASCAR R&D. So is it really NASCAR bias if the 10 never got a penalty for contacting the car that from the team managed by a man who was once a part of NASCAR's top brass on the technical side of things?
You forgot AXR owner Bob Johnson used to be the managing partner of NASCAR and ISC's accounting firm.

You also forgot that the 31 car crashed a PC car, used their pit location to their advantage by pushing the car behind the wall several times after the starter failed and only stopped after other teams complained, and the DTM style blocking tactics of the 10 car on the 2nd to last yellow and never got a penalty called on them.

I'm looking forward to the new season of NASCAR on Fox with Felipe Albuquerque in the booth.;) Or is it Christian Fittipaldi, I cant remember.:D

Max the Axe just took a new job as the Cadillac Dpi project mananger. Does he wear the watch to the meetings with Nelson and Johnson just to tweak them? :lol: Or is it now called triggering the snowflakes...
 
Today's New York Times full page ad.

C3bIhWmXUAAO5vX.jpg


You forgot AXR owner Bob Johnson used to be the managing partner of NASCAR and ISC's accounting firm.

You also forgot that the 31 car crashed a PC car, used their pit location to their advantage by pushing the car behind the wall several times after the starter failed and only stopped after other teams complained, and the DTM style blocking tactics of the 10 car on the 2nd to last yellow and never got a penalty called on them.

I'm looking forward to the new season of NASCAR on Fox with Felipe Albuquerque in the booth.;) Or is it Christian Fittipaldi, I cant remember.:D

Max the Axe just took a new job as the Cadillac Dpi project mananger. Does he wear the watch to the meetings with Nelson and Johnson just to tweak them? :lol: Or is it now called triggering the snowflakes...

The ad should read:

How to make your "racing" debut?

Take out the car ahead of you and claim you won.
 
This is racing though, not time Attack. A driver only gets to take a wide entry to a late apex leaving the inside open if there is not someone on his tail. When there is someone on your tail, especially in the closing laps, you never ever ever leave the inside open, even just a crack.

It wasn't leaving the inside open, it was the only way to get around the corner correctly. If he hugs the white line on the inside, then you don't make the corner.

You're Australian, right? It's the exact same as The Cutting at Bathurst. You don't hug the wall all the way into the corner because you'd never make it around at racing speed and if you're following someone, you don't just throw it up the inside into that "gap", because you'll never make the corner or the move.
 
The ad should read:

How to make your "racing" debut?

Take out the car ahead of you and claim you won.
From a Cadillac point of view, that's a bit of a silly arguement to make.

And should read:

How to make your "racing" debut?

Make a calculated move to put your car in a space, then have the leader turn in on you when you have 1/3 of your car alongside his.

Or, how to lose on your racing debut?

Make a clumsy move that puts your fate in the hands of the officials instead of just controlling your own destiny.

If in doubt, stay out!

Edit:
It wasn't leaving the inside open, it was the only way to get around the corner correctly. If he hugs the white line on the inside, then you don't make the corner.

You're Australian, right? It's the exact same as The Cutting at Bathurst. You don't hug the wall all the way into the corner because you'd never make it around at racing speed and if you're following someone, you don't just throw it up the inside into that "gap", because you'll never make the corner or the move.
I'm Canadian eh.

I think you should go rewatch the incedent. If you think the #10 would not make the corner, you're kidding yourself. He was fully in control. He actually had his nose alongside for a significant portion of the braking zone, shadowing the #5, it's not like it was a lunge from wat far back. The #5 and #10 went through that exact corner side by side just a few laps before that, and the #5 smashed into the #10, trying to force him into the pitwall on exit.

Like I said in a different post...this is racing, not time attack. When leading, you CANNOT leave the inside open on entry and go for a late apex of there is someone on your rear in the closing stages...even at the Cutting.
 
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The ad should read:

How to make your "racing" debut?

Take out the car ahead of you and claim you won.

As opposed to have your lap down teammate brake check your much faster competitor so you don't have to fight them?

Honestly, some of you have a rather broadsweeping view of what taking someone out is, while conviently leaving out the part that said car has made that same move laps before without getting turned into, or ignoring the exact same situation in GTLM.
 

Sorry mate, don't know where I got the thought that you were Aussie from.

I still have to disagree as that's not how double apex corners work. You can't ignore the entry to the second apex and still make the exit at the same speed.

Would the inside car have missed the corner completely? No, but it would not have been able to hold a line tight enough to avoid contact.

Getting alongside there is easy but it isn't done just by taking a different way through the corner. You get up the inside by not braking as hard, which has the effect of increasing your corner entry speed. A higher entry speed and a tighter line don't go together - you can have one or the other, not both.

And my example of the cutting was because yes, every lap of the race, even the last lap, you take the same line, leaving a "gap" on the inside as otherwise you won't make the proper exit.

But again, it doesn't really matter as race control made their call and those sort of moves are fair game in the US.

On a similar note, have you seen the finish to the first NASCAR truck race at Mosport? That was all good by the rules, but another one I can't agree with. I actually think they're very similar incidents.
 
Wiz
This doesn't make much sense since the car ahead was also a Cadillac. It's not an ad for WTR.

If the incident didn't happen they would have still printed the same ad, but with a picture of the #5 car.

It actually does kind of make a difference because WTR is actually the factory team for Cadillac in P and AXR is technically a customer. Macintosh to Granny smith sort of differences but there is still a difference.
 
The #10 just took the Senna line, saw a gap and took it.
Not his falt the #5 doesn't check his mirrors, his spotter probably didn't even mention to watch out for him to try something.
 
Sorry mate, don't know where I got the thought that you were Aussie from.

I still have to disagree as that's not how double apex corners work. You can't ignore the entry to the second apex and still make the exit at the same speed.
It's not a double apex corner, it's a late apex like Stowe or Luffield, there's a difference.

Would the inside car have missed the corner completely? No, but it would not have been able to hold a line tight enough to avoid contact.
This exact scenario played out only a few laps prior to the incedent. Not sure why you think cars can't go 2 wide through there.

Getting alongside there is easy but it isn't done just by taking a different way through the corner. You get up the inside by not braking as hard, which has the effect of increasing your corner entry speed. A higher entry speed and a tighter line don't go together - you can have one or the other, not both.
Go watch the last 20 minutes of the race. The #5 was clearly struggling in the heavy braking zones, and the #10 was monstering him in the braking zones.

Going in to T1 on the lap in question, the #5 was squirming all over the road. In a completely controlled manor, the #10 shadowed the #5 through innitial braking, and moved along side once the door was open. There was no "late lunge" as it were. It was fully controlled and calculated.

And my example of the cutting was because yes, every lap of the race, even the last lap, you take the same line, leaving a "gap" on the inside as otherwise you won't make the proper exit.
Put SVG, or Scotty McLaughlen in a situation where on the final laps, they are close enough going into the cutting to put a nose up the inside, and I gaurentee they would have a go...exit speed be damned.

I'd also put forth the idea that the cutting isn't a good comparison. It's much much narrower, and the run up to it is relatively short, so using a slipstream to slingshot alongside isn't really an option.

A better example might be Forest's Elbow. Ideally, you take a late apex to maximize exit speed. But leave the inside open on entry and watch SVG shove it down the inside to take the spot. That's how racing works...and is what the difference between driving hotlaps and defending a position is.

But again, it doesn't really matter as race control made their call and those sort of moves are fair game in the US.
Please knock it off with this nationality stuff. Do you watch DTM or BTCC???

I'll put it out there...thank God racing in the US hasn't exactly followed European trends!! Thank God there is racing left where some contact can go unpunished (also don't forget, there is massive history between WTR and AXR, both from earlier in this year's 24, and from previous years). Thank god there are still series that race on tracks with real track limits.

On a similar note, have you seen the finish to the first NASCAR truck race at Mosport? That was all good by the rules, but another one I can't agree with. I actually think they're very similar incidents.
Yes I have seen that, and don't really care to get into it, but it was quite different. There's a difference between the following car "can opening" the lead car, and the lead car turning in on the chase car, causing a spin. Furthermore, the innitial incident at Mosport wasn't all that bad, but the bumper cars which ensued afterwards was the real black mark, which should have been punished.

Edit
The #10 just took the Senna line, saw a gap and took it.
Not his falt the #5 doesn't check his mirrors, his spotter probably didn't even mention to watch out for him to try something.
Excellent point. I'd nearly forgotten that these guys use spotters. Unless the radio was off or broken, there's no way the guy on the roof wasn't saying "inside, inside, inside" to the #5.
 
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So many non racers calling a penalty :lol: Ricky did what he had to do to win the race. There's no way after 23h 50mins you're going to sit bavk and accept second place. Race to win end of story.
Really??? Do you really believe in what you just said? Win at any cost?
Gimme a break! You would go nuts if someone would pass you in the last lap like that! You wouldn't even show up on the next race, Robbie.
The gap was there until #5 turned in in his usual turn in point. When he did, gap wasn't there anymore so in a simple manner #10's idea was good but he had no time to perform it hitting #5 in the rear wheel area.
This was not a simple ok contact where both kept going. This was a good idea that unfortunately went wrong, ruined #5's victory and went unpunished.
FOX commentators, all former racers, agree that Taylor should be penalized.
 
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Really??? Do you really believe in what you just said? Win at any cost?
Gimme a break! You would go nuts if someone would pass you in the last lap like that! You wouldn't even show up on the next race, Robbie.
The gap was there until #5 turned in in his usual turn in point. When he did, gap wasn't there anymore so in a simple manner #10's idea was good but he had no time to perform it hitting #5 in the rear wheel area.
This was not a simple ok contact where both kept going. This was a good idea that unfortunately went wrong, ruined #5's victory and went unpunished.
FOX commentators, all former racers, agree that Taylor should be penalized.

I doubt that ALL former racers agree on that...
 
Really??? Do you really believe in what you just said? Win at any cost?
Gimme a break! You would go nuts if someone would pass you in the last lap like that! You wouldn't even show up on the next race, Robbie.
The gap was there until #5 turned in in his usual turn in point. When he did, gap wasn't there anymore so in a simple manner #10's idea was good but he had no time to perform it hitting #5 in the rear wheel area.
This was not a simple ok contact where both kept going. This was a good idea that unfortunately went wrong, ruined #5's victory and went unpunished.
FOX commentators, all former racers, agree that Taylor should be penalized.
Sorry Schmiggz, but you must not know me very well. I do in fact believe in what I say. I'm all for clean racing, it's great when two top tier drivers go at it and not touch. That said, Alb. had a couple choices to prevent Taylor from sticking a nose in, and he had a few choices after as well. I'm not sure what's been said in this thread so far, but it was clear that Alb. was inferior in the brake zones. He had the choice to run the defensive route and not open up the inside to allow Taylor to sneak in as easily as he did. There was absolutely enough room in there for the move to happen, and guys have to realize that this half car lenght corner rights stuff is pretty well BS. You cannot chop someone's nose off and call it clean, it just doesn't work like that.

Now, assuming Alb. didn't slice Taylor off and wreck himself, he had a few viable options to keep Taylor behind. His first option would be to give Ricky just enough room to drive the car through the corner, but nothing more, and pinching corner exit and staying tight to the inside forcing Taylor to take the slower line through the corner, while Alb. can take the faster, wider route and getting a better exit and clearing Taylor before the esses. The second option he had was to stay put and go side by side through the esses and, while trapping Taylor on the inside through T1, he would also be setting himself up on the inside of the first horseshoe and having a great chance of keeping Taylor behind. Both options would have resulted in Alb. more than likely keeping the lead while not contacting another car. Sadly, he made a silly mistake and turned down into a car that had already taken his fair share of road.


And on the personal note Schmiggz, I wouldn't go nuts if someone passed me like that, because I would never have put myself in that position in the first place. I'd be hugging that white line all the way through, and even if I didn't, I certainly wouldn't turn down on a competitor and spin myself. Sorry dude, your fellow countryman lost the race himself. He out and out got out driven.
 
Just to fully explain the way I saw things take place, I'll use the screen shots you posted (nice work btw 👍)


For reference, I'm also going to introduce Exibit B ;), an overhead shot of the corner, from Google Earth. I'm using my phone, so if the picture quality is crap, I apologize. Pull up Daytona on Google Earth on whatever you use for reference.


I'm also going to link this article, which has quotes from ALB after the race.
http://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news...el-a-bit-ashamed-after-clash-869538/?tp=2&s=1

The important bit is where he says, "I had some GTs in front of me, so I could not brake so late. I closed the door and got spun."

Important to note in that quote that he says "I closed the door," which implies he knew that the door was open at some point.


So let's look at Frame 1 of your photo. That is the door firmly closed. There is clearly no space for the #10 to go on the inside.

In frame 2, that is now door open. Not only is the door open, but the #10 now has his foot firmly in that open door. Also note that this is still in the middle of the braking zone, a significant distance from the "turn in point" (those are air quotes lol, because of the curved braking zone, it's tough to define a specific turn in point).

In Frame 3, this is now the #10 with a large portion of its leg in the open doorway. This is when the #5 decides to close the door.

Looking at Frame 2 more, note the gap in the blue ARMCO barrier, above and to the left of the #10. Now, find that gap in the fence in the overhead shot. Now look at Frame 3, and note the change in surface line directly behind the #10. Find this same line in the overhead (it matches up perfectly with the concrete in the runoff).

With these two points of reference, the gap in the ARMCO and the change in surface, look at the distance between them. Using the white vans parked in the infield as a reference, I would guess that's between 30 to 50 feet.

Think about that. The #10 had his nose alongside the #5 for that amount of distance, and then the #5 decided to close the door.

As for ALB's awareness of where the #10 was, there's only two possibilities - either he knew he was there, or he didn't.

If ALB didn't know he was there, or didn't know where he was, that is his error for losing track of the #10. Knowing that the #10 had stuck his nose in there before, and knowing that they had already gone side by side through there previously, if ALB lost track of where the #10 was, then he has to assume he is on the inside, alongside. If in doubt, stay out.

However, "didn't know," I don't buy it (nore do I gather that ALB is trying to sell that...it's just a possibility). Those cars have position sensors and rear view cameras. While I'm sure they have a significant blind spot, the DPi teams also use spotters at races like Daytona. Unless the radio was off or broken, ALB would have had a voice in his ear telling him the #10 was inside.

So that leaves the option that ALB knew the #10 was inside, yet still decided to turn in. Why do that? He's no idiot or cluts, he's a good racecar driver. I mean, he is human, so he could have cracked under the pressure, made an error in judgement...it happens. That said, there is a rising trend in motorsports (all pro sports actually) where the competitors are more willing to make risky moves, with the sole purpose of forcing the official to make a decision.

In motor racing, one of those moves is known as The Chop. Ironically, Max the Axe Angelleli is famous for it :lol: The Chop is basically leaving the door open for a moment, and then aggressively slamming it shut. It works because in most cases, technically you have the rule on your side (that the lead driver can chose his line, collision avoidance falls on the following driver), but that only works if you time it properly. The goal is to chop the other guy so close that he is forced to slam on his brakes, which gives you a huge advantage on corner exit. It is often seen as being a very aggressive move. The other thing, is that like in all pro sports, what was once an aggressive move becomes regular, which requires more rules to regulate, which then leads to a knew form of aggressively tip-toeing the line.

The biggest problem with The Chop is you put your fate in the hands of your competator and the officials. You basically say to your competator, "This is what I'm doing. You decide whether to back off or hold fast, and if their's contact we'll let the officials sort it out." With the alternative of course being to control your own fate, not turn in, hold the outside which then becomes the inside for the next corner (in this specific case).

Well, in this situation, I think TAY decided he was far enough alongside, for long enough (refer back to the photos), and decided to hold fast. Contact insued, and the officials said, "Sorry Filipe-baby, we're not playing your game today. You had every chance to not turn in the way you did, but you chose to anyway. We're not here to win the race for you."

All that said, I don't think there was over aggressive intent by either driver. The #10 didn't intentionally hit the #5, and the #5 didn't intentionally try an over aggressive chop. It was close, hard racing at the end of 24 hours. Both drivers made split second decisions. A split second earlier or later, a franction of an inch this way or that way, and the outcome may have been very different. But that's racing!!! Not everything requires a penalty, sometimes 🤬 just happens.

Lastly, you are right that there is some difference in the way American and European racing is officiated. The American way gets a negative label because of some specific incidents in NASCAR, but generally it's a "treat others the way you want to be treated, and police yourself" type of approach. Don't want to get spun out in turn 1? Don't turn in while there's someone there, you only have yourself to blame for opening the door in the first place. This encourages respectful racing, and encourages guys to follow basic protocol like "if in doubt, stay out." The European way is to micro analyze the tiniest of transgressions, trying to blame this person or that person, and then penalize the "guilty" party. This encourages guys to constantly put their fate in the hands of other drivers and officials, and in my opinion, leads to a very entitled way of practicing racecraft.
 
Just to fully explain the way I saw things take place, I'll use the screen shots you posted (nice work btw 👍)



For reference, I'm also going to introduce Exibit B ;), an overhead shot of the corner, from Google Earth. I'm using my phone, so if the picture quality is crap, I apologize. Pull up Daytona on Google Earth on whatever you use for reference.


I'm also going to link this article, which has quotes from ALB after the race.
http://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news...el-a-bit-ashamed-after-clash-869538/?tp=2&s=1

The important bit is where he says, "I had some GTs in front of me, so I could not brake so late. I closed the door and got spun."

Important to note in that quote that he says "I closed the door," which implies he knew that the door was open at some point.


So let's look at Frame 1 of your photo. That is the door firmly closed. There is clearly no space for the #10 to go on the inside.

In frame 2, that is now door open. Not only is the door open, but the #10 now has his foot firmly in that open door. Also note that this is still in the middle of the braking zone, a significant distance from the "turn in point" (those are air quotes lol, because of the curved braking zone, it's tough to define a specific turn in point).

In Frame 3, this is now the #10 with a large portion of its leg in the open doorway. This is when the #5 decides to close the door.

Looking at Frame 2 more, note the gap in the blue ARMCO barrier, above and to the left of the #10. Now, find that gap in the fence in the overhead shot. Now look at Frame 3, and note the change in surface line directly behind the #10. Find this same line in the overhead (it matches up perfectly with the concrete in the runoff).

With these two points of reference, the gap in the ARMCO and the change in surface, look at the distance between them. Using the white vans parked in the infield as a reference, I would guess that's between 30 to 50 feet.

Think about that. The #10 had his nose alongside the #5 for that amount of distance, and then the #5 decided to close the door.

As for ALB's awareness of where the #10 was, there's only two possibilities - either he knew he was there, or he didn't.

If ALB didn't know he was there, or didn't know where he was, that is his error for losing track of the #10. Knowing that the #10 had stuck his nose in there before, and knowing that they had already gone side by side through there previously, if ALB lost track of where the #10 was, then he has to assume he is on the inside, alongside. If in doubt, stay out.

However, "didn't know," I don't buy it (nore do I gather that ALB is trying to sell that...it's just a possibility). Those cars have position sensors and rear view cameras. While I'm sure they have a significant blind spot, the DPi teams also use spotters at races like Daytona. Unless the radio was off or broken, ALB would have had a voice in his ear telling him the #10 was inside.

So that leaves the option that ALB knew the #10 was inside, yet still decided to turn in. Why do that? He's no idiot or cluts, he's a good racecar driver. I mean, he is human, so he could have cracked under the pressure, made an error in judgement...it happens. That said, there is a rising trend in motorsports (all pro sports actually) where the competitors are more willing to make risky moves, with the sole purpose of forcing the official to make a decision.

In motor racing, one of those moves is known as The Chop. Ironically, Max the Axe Angelleli is famous for it :lol: The Chop is basically leaving the door open for a moment, and then aggressively slamming it shut. It works because in most cases, technically you have the rule on your side (that the lead driver can chose his line, collision avoidance falls on the following driver), but that only works if you time it properly. The goal is to chop the other guy so close that he is forced to slam on his brakes, which gives you a huge advantage on corner exit. It is often seen as being a very aggressive move. The other thing, is that like in all pro sports, what was once an aggressive move becomes regular, which requires more rules to regulate, which then leads to a knew form of aggressively tip-toeing the line.

The biggest problem with The Chop is you put your fate in the hands of your competator and the officials. You basically say to your competator, "This is what I'm doing. You decide whether to back off or hold fast, and if their's contact we'll let the officials sort it out." With the alternative of course being to control your own fate, not turn in, hold the outside which then becomes the inside for the next corner (in this specific case).

Well, in this situation, I think TAY decided he was far enough alongside, for long enough (refer back to the photos), and decided to hold fast. Contact insued, and the officials said, "Sorry Filipe-baby, we're not playing your game today. You had every chance to not turn in the way you did, but you chose to anyway. We're not here to win the race for you."

All that said, I don't think there was over aggressive intent by either driver. The #10 didn't intentionally hit the #5, and the #5 didn't intentionally try an over aggressive chop. It was close, hard racing at the end of 24 hours. Both drivers made split second decisions. A split second earlier or later, a franction of an inch this way or that way, and the outcome may have been very different. But that's racing!!! Not everything requires a penalty, sometimes 🤬 just happens.

Lastly, you are right that there is some difference in the way American and European racing is officiated. The American way gets a negative label because of some specific incidents in NASCAR, but generally it's a "treat others the way you want to be treated, and police yourself" type of approach. Don't want to get spun out in turn 1? Don't turn in while there's someone there, you only have yourself to blame for opening the door in the first place. This encourages respectful racing, and encourages guys to follow basic protocol like "if in doubt, stay out." The European way is to micro analyze the tiniest of transgressions, trying to blame this person or that person, and then penalize the "guilty" party. This encourages guys to constantly put their fate in the hands of other drivers and officials, and in my opinion, leads to a very entitled way of practicing racecraft.
You have won the thread! 👍
 
Lastly, you are right that there is some difference in the way American and European racing is officiated. The American way gets a negative label because of some specific incidents in NASCAR, but generally it's a "treat others the way you want to be treated, and police yourself" type of approach. Don't want to get spun out in turn 1? Don't turn in while there's someone there, you only have yourself to blame for opening the door in the first place. This encourages respectful racing, and encourages guys to follow basic protocol like "if in doubt, stay out." The European way is to micro analyze the tiniest of transgressions, trying to blame this person or that person, and then penalize the "guilty" party. This encourages guys to constantly put their fate in the hands of other drivers and officials, and in my opinion, leads to a very entitled way of practicing racecraft.

Great post, and thanks for including that quote for Filipe. Always good to hear their thoughts.

I enjoy talking about this sort of stuff because I absolutely do believe there are different racing cultures throughout the world and rather than wanting to paint one as right or wrong, I appreciate hearing and considering all points of view, especially when I know that my views are the ones that are either in the minority or wrong (wrong as in, the rules in this case are different to the way I think, but I totally accept that).

I find this last part of the quote especially interesting, because I go entirely in the opposite direction, where I see the American thought of any overlap automatically entitling a driver to the position as being detrimental to the racing, as I see it as encouraging divebombs and contact. Again, not saying there's a flatout right or wrong, because ultimately what is "right" could be completely different between countries, styles of racing, sanctioning bodies, etc.

The other reason that I'm pushing this conversation as far as it has gone is that this year I'm making the move from sprints to club racing and I think it's important for me to understand that not everyone is going to have the same expectations as me. That's why I'm trying to establish different perspectives and viewpoints, because it would be foolish for me to expect that everyone on the track is going to have the exact same boundaries in mind.

My local circuit is somewhat relevant to the topic as there are two points on the track where a slight overlap is extremely easy to achieve, but will almost certainly result in an accident if the following driver doesn't back out. It's always brought up in the drivers briefings and in those situations, blame will nearly always fall onto the following driver....but there's no good in being right if I'm left with a destroyed racecar!
 
It actually does kind of make a difference because WTR is actually the factory team for Cadillac in P and AXR is technically a customer. Macintosh to Granny smith sort of differences but there is still a difference.

No, you're wrong. So if we actually take the time to see if Cadillac thinks of AXR as a team they would broadcast on a factory level, or say post a picture of them in the NYT to broadcast their brand...where should we go to see this?

http://www.cadillac.com/v-series/racing.html

Ah yes, here we go, several articles from the official Cadillac website under the portion dedicated to their racing efforts and they actually talk about AXR in those articles as part of their racing effort. Gee, I guess they would have put the Mustang Sampling car as the picture if it had won instead of the WTR. And hell who is to know the better, surely not the average NYT reader. Do you get the idea?
 
I think you guys are overanalyzing the incident a bit. The fact that the 31 blocked the 10 on purpose at the restart alone, makes me stop caring. The 5 was braking too early and left a bit of room, the 10 tried it, it didn't work entirely, so what?

The real scandal of the race was that Mazda still cannot build proper racing engines.
 
No, you're wrong. So if we actually take the time to see if Cadillac thinks of AXR as a team they would broadcast on a factory level, or say post a picture of them in the NYT to broadcast their brand...where should we go to see this?

http://www.cadillac.com/v-series/racing.html

Ah yes, here we go, several articles from the official Cadillac website under the portion dedicated to their racing efforts and they actually talk about AXR in those articles as part of their racing effort. Gee, I guess they would have put the Mustang Sampling car as the picture if it had won instead of the WTR. And hell who is to know the better, surely not the average NYT reader. Do you get the idea?
All NYT readers know that the Cadillac NorthStar team is the factory tea... wait a minute.
 
The real scandal of the race was that Mazda still cannot build proper racing engines.
If it's pretty and handles well, that means a lot. Perhaps this is the ideal spec car to replace the PC class with?
 
I think you guys are overanalyzing the incident a bit. The fact that the 31 blocked the 10 on purpose at the restart alone, makes me stop caring. The 5 was braking too early and left a bit of room, the 10 tried it, it didn't work entirely, so what?

The real scandal of the race was that Mazda still cannot build proper racing engines.
*AER

Hand grenades as far back as Dyson.

Glad the new cars are strong enough to door bang and not fall apart, was awesome seeing the 10 and 5 doing that up to the Intl Horseshoe.
 
I'll just leave this here:

"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." -Ayrton Senna
 
For those that missed it, IMSA published the full race on their Youtube channel today.
 
I went to SC365 to find read something regarding the IMSA thread itself and came across Toni Vilander's Rolex 24 debrief while looking. I'll link it here since it is directly related to the race. Quite an interesting take and I find it really interesting that even he said that the Michelins were struggling in the wet as much as the Contis were (and those that watched the race saw that the Michelins are the far superior tire).
 
"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." -Ayrton Senna
"Being able to quote a famous person isn't a licence to dive bomb" - Common Sense

I saw a penalty in it because I've always read and been told that the B-Pillar is the point where the inside car gains the right to the corner, and #10 was only at the C-Pillar. It's only a non-penalty if you consider this B-Pillar rule to be flawed or at least not applicable to this situation.
 
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