2017 Rolex Daytona 24 Hour: Results Inside

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JayOTT
"Being able to quote a famous person isn't a licence to dive bomb" - Common Sense

I saw a penalty in it because I've always read and been told that the B-Pillar is the point where the inside car gains the right to the corner, and #10 was only at the C-Pillar. It's only a non-penalty if you consider this B-Pillar rule to be flawed or at least not applicable to this situation.
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But the whole incident wound not have happened if the 5 hadn't left the inside wide freakin' open. People say he took that line "because it's the racing line." And there's your flaw: it's the racing line, not the defensive line. With the 10 following that close, he should have stayed all the way to the inside and parked it on the apex, not left a 1-car-width gap for the 10 to exploit.
 
TeamCZRRacing
I'll just leave this here:

"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." -Ayrton Senna
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That same move was done earlier in the race when the 5 didn't pull back in right there and nothing happened so I hardly think that overused quote applies here.
 
mwoodski
*AER

Hand grenades as far back as Dyson.

Glad the new cars are strong enough to door bang and not fall apart, was awesome seeing the 10 and 5 doing that up to the Intl Horseshoe.
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Yeah, sorry, AER. The Mazda looks so hot, that their engines kinda fit.

To the others: You're still overanalyzing.
 
Tired Tyres
That was a pathetic EXCUSE for WRONG doing then and it still is now.
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So going for a gap is wrong then? Well, apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time on my way to 5 track championships. Good to know.

Also, please stop yelling :(
 
TeamCZRRacing
So going for a gap is wrong then? Well, apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time on my way to 5 track championships. Good to know.
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Going for a gap is okay. Forcing the issue when you are not even half way along side is not on. Ever.
 
legatoblues
Great post, and thanks for including that quote for Filipe. Always good to hear their thoughts.

I enjoy talking about this sort of stuff because I absolutely do believe there are different racing cultures throughout the world and rather than wanting to paint one as right or wrong, I appreciate hearing and considering all points of view, especially when I know that my views are the ones that are either in the minority or wrong (wrong as in, the rules in this case are different to the way I think, but I totally accept that).

I find this last part of the quote especially interesting, because I go entirely in the opposite direction, where I see the American thought of any overlap automatically entitling a driver to the position as being detrimental to the racing, as I see it as encouraging divebombs and contact. Again, not saying there's a flatout right or wrong, because ultimately what is "right" could be completely different between countries, styles of racing, sanctioning bodies, etc.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say "entitled to the position," as in, because the #10 stuck his nose in there, he was entitled to 1st place. It more means that in this specific case, the #10 had earned the right to some space in the inside. The #5 still had every right to defend the position by holding the outside, and fighting down to T2. As long as the #5 could have kept his nose in front of the #10, the #5 could then control the exit.

Also, I would argue that the approach doesn't encourage dive bombing - if you don't want to get dive bombed, don't dive bomb other people. Especially when the guy you dive bomb this week might be on your six next week.

Also, the whole point of a dive bomb (which, despite the negative press the term gets from video game racers, at high levels, it is a completely legal and legit tactic) is to complete the move BEFORE the corner. One of the reasons a person would try to complete a move before the corner is because they feel they are racing in an environment where they feel that if they don't dive bomb and block pass, they will get turned in on.

If you race in an environment where the attacking driver feels safe enough to put his nose in a not have it chopped, and will be afforded the opportunity to fight for the position the full way around the corner, I personally think it encourages people to use methods other than divebombing.

The other aspect of the "treat others the way you want to be treated" as opposed to "let the officials decide everything" is that it's important to remember, those aren't AI opponents you are racing against, and chances are, you'll have to race those same guys next week, and the week after that. If you dive bomb or chop someone this week, remember that you need to deal with that same driver next week.

The other aspect I think the "American" approach encourages is attempts. If you say you race, then you know as well as anyone that every overtake is a gamble, a calculated risk - but nothing is guaranteed. Sometimes, when you try something, it just doesn't work out, and maybe someone spins. The current "Euro" paradigm firmly puts the power in the hands of the defensive driver, and leaves the attacking driver scared to even attempt a move. You can see evidence of a defending driver "wielding the rulebook to its full extent" in the way Max Verstappen defends. He's on the right side of the law (barely), but he's playing a game of chicken with the other drivers, forcing the other drivers and officials to decide his fate for him.

As someone watching pro racing, I want to see racing where guys feel comfortable making attempts, and if things don't work out perfect, not fear having their race ruined by a penalty just for having a go.

If I was in your shoes, doing AM racing, I would want to race in a series where I feel comfortable attempting a move, my competition will afford me a fair opportunity to have a go and won't hold the rulebook over my head.

The other reason that I'm pushing this conversation as far as it has gone is that this year I'm making the move from sprints to club racing and I think it's important for me to understand that not everyone is going to have the same expectations as me. That's why I'm trying to establish different perspectives and viewpoints, because it would be foolish for me to expect that everyone on the track is going to have the exact same boundaries in mind.

My local circuit is somewhat relevant to the topic as there are two points on the track where a slight overlap is extremely easy to achieve, but will almost certainly result in an accident if the following driver doesn't back out. It's always brought up in the drivers briefings and in those situations, blame will nearly always fall onto the following driver....but there's no good in being right if I'm left with a destroyed racecar!
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You're in the right frame of mind if you are already aware that everyone has different interpretations of what is ok and what is not. It's even more important to keep that in mind doing AM racing, where you and your rivals put personal time and money into being there. If Vettel and Hamilton come together because of a misunderstanding, so what. If you and Bob Smith crash because someone turned in on the other, that sucks for both of you.

Another aspect to keep in mind when deciding to drive by controlling your own destiny as opposed to letting the rulebook control your destiny is to remember that in your AM racing, you probably won't have video replay on every corner for the officials to review and CSI analyze. So if you're on the backside of the circuit, and you and Bob go into a corner together - maybe he's at your B-pillar, maybe he's short by a few inches - and you decide "I have the rulebook on my side, I'm turning in," you turn in, and get spun out...what now? Maybe the corner marshal saw, but they'll probably just report back "they went in with overlap, there was a spin, racing incident." So now, despite having the rulebook technically on your side, all you've managed to accomplish is ruining your own race at best, wreck your car at worst. Or maybe Bob wrecks as well, so now both of you have repair bills to deal with, and now you'll be sketched out every time you need to race around Bob.

The whole point being that, if you want to maintain your position, and make clear indication that you are going to do so, you MUST NOT OPEN THE DOOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. Furthermore, it's important to remember that following the racing line is a privilege, not a right. If you decide to follow the racing line to a late apex, leaving the door open, and your opponent sticks his nose in and your only option to maintaining your position is to turn in on the guy, your mistake has already been made.

The whole point of all of this though, is control your own destiny. Never consciously make moves which force others to decide your fate for you. Or, I guess I shouldn't say "never", but when you do it, be very aware that the outcome may not be what you had planned. Maybe Bob was indeed far enough alongside to earn the space, or maybe the officials are going to take previous events (such as you lap down teammate blocking Bob) into consideration.

I'll definitely admit, this is one of the most difficult and frustrating aspect of racing to understand - and not saying I fully do, these are just my interpretations. For you, it would be extremely important to find out in detail exactly what is allowed and what is not allowed in your specific league. Don't rely on what you see on TV or read on GTP to direct you to what's in and what's out. Different series, depending on the cars and skill of the drivers, have all kinds of different rules. These range from the most gentlemanly where overtaking is forbidden unless you have 100% overlap on the straight before reaching the braking zone (vintage racing), to the other extreme which would be F1 where it's basically whoever has their nose the slightest bit in front gets to dictate proceedings and drive as though they're the only guy on track. You league would probably be someone in the middle.

The best examples I can think of regarding an attacking car having minimal overlap (talking a bumper maybe) causing the defending car to yield the inside line, yet still fight for the position by hanging around the outside, would be from Aussie V8 Supercars, specifically T2 at Townsville. Tiniest bit of overlap and the inside is yielded, yet the defender hangs tough outside, putting him on the inside for T3.

I think the reason you see that style of driving in that series is because of the massive braking distances. To pull off an overtake, those guys often need to come from a ways back - back far enough that they can't be certain whether the move is on 100% or not. The idea is to keep the fans happy, and to encourage guys to have a go, as opposed to just sitting in the que. Obviously, if a guy has a go for a move he's not 100% certain of, he might not exactly get that "B-pillar overlap" that so many people look for. But while he can't get to the B-Pillar, he's on the limit, can't slow down anymore. So where does he go? If the lead driver turns in, there's a crash, which equals losers. If he never has a go to begin with, where does that leave the fans? The solution is for the lead driver to yield the space (but not the position). Both cars drive away, fans get excitement, and next week when the roles are reversed, the same courtesy and sportsmanship will be shown.

Last bit, I swear :lol: I find the position ALB is taking after the event to quite awkward. He wasn't actually that mad about being spun, he seemed more upset that TAY didn't do the sporting thing and wait for him. To be clear, in an ideal world, I'd love to see that. I care more about the fight than the result. But I'm not naive, that's not the world we live in. Furthermore, did ALB do the sporting thing an not turn in? No. Did he do the sporting thing and wait for the #10 when the #31 blocked it on the restart? No. So why would he expect TAY to do the sporting thing and wait for him??

ALB screwed up. He opened the door, and I'm sure he feels like he let the team down. But he won't just admit that and move on. Instead he's trying to play the moral high ground game in the press (cough Lewis cough), saying things like "he should be ashamed," or "a real racer would have waited." Please! A real racer would have never opened that door, and a real racer would be ashamed for doing so, and then attempting to correct that mistake by turning in on the rival.
 
I really still applaud IMSA for posting the races with the RLM feed after it was the most requested thing mid-season last year based off the comments. They gave the fans what they wanted last year and seem to be sticking with what the majority of the fans want by sticking with the RLM feed this year.
 
IMSA is good people.

Wait til ya see some of the stuff they'll be releasing on Thursdays this year to their facebook acct.
 

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