2018 FIFA World Cup Finals

  • Thread starter Famine
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Dennisch
The VAR is an absolute failure so far. Too inconsistent. The World Cup is not the smartest place for a full scale test.
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zzz_pt
I agree. And a lot of referees have never worked with the VAR on a weekly basis. As it happens with the football teams, a lot of good European refs are not in the world cup because they need to bring refs from countries where they're not used to high levels of competition.

It will take some time until the VAR works properly. Both for the refs behind it and the ones in the pitch.

But yeah, some games have been a bit of a disgrace for the VAR.
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Touring Mars
It is quite perplexing how there have been quite so many glaring mistakes - at this point, VAR has caused about as many injustices as it has prevented, making the entire thing a complete waste of time. Australia should never have been awarded that penalty, England should have got a penalty against Tunisia, and various players ought to have been booked or sent off for serious fouls or ridiculous acts of simulation that aren't even being reviewed. Ironically, VAR is also pointing out the shortcomings of the officiating at the tournament - but not only are the officials making mistakes, referees are even getting some things right only for them to be overturned (wrongly) by the VAR officials! It's a bit stupid really.
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I have to disagree with the criticism of VAR at this tournament somewhat. I agree that it has been inconsistently used and/or applied at times but what it has done I think it has done well.

For as long as I've watched football I've always thought that there ought to be so many more penalties per game than there have been. Fouls in the box aren't treated as being as serious as they ought to be. A foul in the box is a penalty offence. VAR, to me, has highlighted how wrongly the game has been played, coached and policed for decades. You musn't foul in the box, it's the most costly foul in the whole game, and I am glad that there is a system being developed which is addressing this. If your team gives away 5 penalties a match, correctly, you need to coach them better.

It doesn't matter if it's a minor foul, a foul is a foul. The absolute worst offender is the number of times you, me or anyone has seen a penalty not given but thought "Yeah but that's a free-kick anywhere else on the pitch". Absolute worst and most infuriating. This attitude of "well we can't have 6 penalties a match because it would look stupid", and referees are a major part of that, has to stop.

Basically you have three options:

Train the players better
Change the laws of the game
Change the size of the penalty area.

However I will reiterate that VAR inconsistency has been jarring. The things it awards versus the things it misses is exceptionally poor and it isn't helped by referees almost being scared to make a decision and hope that VAR does it for them. Many things like red card offences and diving could be fixed by retroactive punishment but the IFAB and FIFA seem reluctant to do anything about it.

I do have to laugh at people who say that "mistakes are part of football". That's just ridiculous, as anybody who has been the victim of a sporting injustice will tell you. No, mistakes shouldn't be part of football or any sports. An obviously incorrect decision isn't something which should just be allowed to happen and if you lost a cup final or got relegated because of one you'd change your tune very quickly.

I guess it's because football is a more free-flowing game without the aspect of building territory and frequent stoppages that rugby has become accustomed to but I really scratch my head as to why TMO works in rugby but VAR in football is an omnishambles.
 
Dennisch
If Croatia wins tonight and Iceland wins tomorrow, is Argentina out, or is it on goal difference?
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The tie-breaks, in order of priority, will be:

* Goal difference
* Goals scored
* Points in matches between the tied teams
* Goal difference in matches between the tied teams
* Goals scored in matches between the tied teams (this only works for three-way tie-breaks)
* Fair play (-1pt for a player with a yellow card, -3pt for a player with a red via two yellows, -4pt for a straight red, -5pt for yellow then straight red)
* Drawing of lots
Liquid
However I will reiterate that VAR inconsistency has been jarring. The things it awards versus the things it misses is exceptionally poor and it isn't helped by referees almost being scared to make a decision and hope that VAR does it for them.
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I have a problem with the implementation of VAR, in that it seems to be used all the time for everything, but only when they feel like it. At the moment, it's a video referee, not a video assistant referee. I think that it should only be used to correct an incorrect decision, not to make a decision that wasn't made - unless specifically appealed by the team coach.

Just to clarify, that means that if a referee awards a penalty and it wasn't one, VAR should correct that. If a referee sends someone off for an offence and there wasn't one (or that person didn't do it), VAR should correct that. If a referee awards a goal and there was an offside, VAR should correct that. If a referee doesn't award a penalty/free kick/red card/goal and he should have done, VAR should not correct that.

However, the team's manager/coach should have two VAR appeals for decisions not taken per game - a penalty they think the team should have had, or an off-the-ball incident the referee didn't see. An appeal that succeeds should refresh, but one that fails should not.
 
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My main gripe with VAR is that the VAR team tell the referee that they have something to review. The referee on the pitch should be in absolute control, so he should be requesting assistance if he is not totally satisfied he can make a 100% decision. It doesn't seem right when there were some horrible looking challenges in the Croatia - Argentina game completely washed over, or the Tunisian defenders ignoring the football altogether to concentrate on rugby tackling Harry Kane, whilst a penalty was given because a Peruvian defender has arms.
 
Pezzarinho17
My main gripe with VAR is that the VAR team tell the referee that they have something to review. The referee on the pitch should be in absolute control, so he should be requesting assistance if he is not totally satisfied he can make a 100% decision. It doesn't seem right when there were some horrible looking challenges in the Croatia - Argentina game completely washed over, or the Tunisian defenders ignoring the football altogether to concentrate on rugby tackling Harry Kane, whilst a penalty was given because a Peruvian defender has arms.
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The ref can ask them to review what he wants. I just wish the VAR team would call back the ref a little more often for things like foul play, and that they were all mic'd up a la rugby.
 
Famine
The tie-breaks, in order of priority, will be:

* Drawing of lots
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Tangent:

There was a game decades ago where Italy versus the Soviet Union was decided by a coin toss. It was the semi-final of the 1968 European Championships. After the game finished 0-0 Italy won the toss and advanced to the final.
 
My biggest issue with VAR, other than the inconsistency, is the way it stops play dead. It works or would work fine in American Football or Rugby Union where you get natural breaks in play, but in Football or say Rugby League, where a constant flow in play is much of the appeal, it's just another interruption. If it worked as it should and was generally felt that the pros out weigh the cons, then fair enough, it's an advancement in the game. But when it doesn't then its just a distraction and a further cause of controversy.
 
Brazil and Costa Rica were 0-0 at halftime. I think Serbia v. Switzerland will be a really good match later today.
 
Neymar should have been red carded for that. Woeful acting. It's pathetic how someone with so much talent has to resort to that.

Another point which isn't necessarily VAR related; if the referee doesn't give a penalty because there wasn't a foul, surely the attacking player should be booked for diving? That happens far too infrequently.
 
We're seeing a lot of tough games so far. The so-called "smaller teams" have caught up tactically in the last 8 years since... let's arbitrarily say South Africa... which means that instead of being able to defend for 50 minutes they can now defend for about 85 minutes.
 
Brazil are good for their win - they could have/should have won by 3 or 4...

But both teams have embarrassed themselves with some pathetic diving and play acting. This is what happens when unsportsmanlike behaviour is not only not punished but is even rewarded - you reap what you sew.
 
Now we need Switzerland to win from Serbia, and then win against Costa Rica with 3-0 and Serbia beats Brazil and we have a hilarious result in this group.
 
Forgot how annoyed Neymar can get lol

And without VAR, Kuipers would’ve given a penalty for that. One of the most scandalous pens in recent memory.
 
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Liquid
We're seeing a lot of tough games so far. The so-called "smaller teams" have caught up tactically in the last 8 years since... let's arbitrarily say South Africa... which means that instead of being able to defend for 50 minutes they can now defend for about 85 minutes.
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Agree completely about smaller teams catching up in terms of tactics but I also think they have caught up in terms of fitness. Watching Iran play the other night they kept going for 95 minutes. Looked the fittest team I have seen so far.
 
dacc10
Jesus, why so much time? Didn't see the game.
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Any substitution is 30 seconds and if there is a VAR usage then that seems to add 2 mins by default.

The ridiculous play acting probably added on a minute or two as well.
 
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Liquid
Any substitution is 30 seconds and if there is a VAR usage then that seems to add 2 mins by default.

The ridiculous play acting probably added on a minute or two as well.
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And players falling to the ground every 5 min during the last 30m of the game.
 
Liquid
If Iceland beat Nigeria they're all but qualified.

Fingers crossed!
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Not really. If Croatia wins the 3rd game against them and Argentina wins against Nigeria by a big margin, Argentina goes through.

But Nigeria can win today and draw/win against Argentina too ^^
 
Not sure who the co-commentator for the BBC is for the Nigeria-Iceland game, but he seems to think Argentinia is a place.
 
MoLiEG
Brazil has nothing. That score is absolutely deceiving.
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Finishing a little off but they did create a lot of chances in the second half. Bravo made a very good save from Neymar. They struggled but they do have a very strong team.
 
zzz_pt
Not really. If Croatia wins the 3rd game against them and Argentina wins against Nigeria by a big margin, Argentina goes through.

But Nigeria can win today and draw/win against Argentina too ^^
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Well the game hasn't exactly gone Iceland's way.
 

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