Formula 1 2019 Formula 1 Gran Premio Heineken d'Italia

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Jimlaad43, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    After an understandably sombre Belgian Grand Prix, Formula 1 moves on to Monza a week later to get the season back on track. Charles Leclerc finally won his first Grand Prix last time out in Belgium, and Ferrari's first of the year having lost three races they should have won earlier in the year. Sebastian Vettel has still never won at Monza in a Ferrari, and this looks to be his best chance as the Ferrari is the quickest car in a straight line, leaving the Mercedes trailing in its wake (First time we've said that for almost a decade!) Will Monza host a thrilling race like we were treated to last season, or will we be back to the usual dull affair of cars running around without enough downforce to follow each other around the Italian parkland? We can only hope it's the former as we head to the Italian Grand Prix.
    [​IMG]
    First Grand Prix
    1950

    Number of Laps
    53

    Circuit Length
    5.793km

    Race Distance
    306.72 km

    Lap Record
    1:21.046 Rubens Barrichello (2004)
     
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  2. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    My prediction for the weekend's events, just so I can say "I told you so" if it happens. First bullet point is very likely, second is not implausible, third is a reaction to the second.

    • Ferrari managed to finally get their first win last time out in Belgium, and Leclerc got his first win of the season. This is probably Ferrari's last chance this season to get an easy win on pure pace, so they will adjust strategy and team orders to make sure Vettel finally wins at Monza for the team, regardless of how much faster Leclerc is.

    • Vettel, having realised that Leclerc is going to beat him more often than not, tearfully announces in the interview afterwards that he will be retiring from F1 at the end of the season having finally won in Red at Monza. He'll cite wanting to spend more time with his family as a reason, especially as Hubert's recent fatal accident has thrust the real risk of their job fresh into everybody's mind.

    • Ferrari quickly announce in the weeks after that they have bought Daniel Ricciardo out of his Renault deal for him to race at Ferrari in 2020, allowing Hulkenberg to keep a seat at Renault.
     
  3. DesertPenguin

    DesertPenguin Premium

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    Some interesting ideas you've got there
     
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  4. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    Not implausible, but isn't that a bit like betting 3 underdogs on a parlay?
     
  5. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    That works for me with the exception of Hulkenberg being kept at Renault. They made an offer which he turned down, maybe that ball will come back into his court now.
     
  6. SeeGeeAitch

    SeeGeeAitch

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    I would so love for all of this to happen apart from Seb winning. Would love to see Charles behind Seb after the pit stop(s) and overtake Seb on track for the win (against team orders?)!
     
  7. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    Gasly and Verstappen will each be using Honda's Spec 4 engine this weekend, that will put them at the back of the grid.
     
  8. shoemaker

    shoemaker

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    This will be a short race, a little over an hour. With these much faster cars I would like to see a more laps than just measuring a race on distance.
     
  9. Alex p.

    Alex p.

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    So you state, that Vettel is so immoral, as to use a recent death of a young guy, to save face and his own ego?
     
  10. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    What? How have you managed to construe that idea from my words?

    My point is that the risk of the job is fresh on everyone's mind at the moment, and it seems like it would make the drivers with a family question their own mortality. It would make it more likely for a driver to "do a Rosberg" in that situation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  11. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    That's not at all what he said, or the context.

    He's saying that an incident such as this one would cause anyone to reflect, and in Vettel's case, he's already a 4x world champion.

    He may have winning the WDC in a Ferrari as a remaining goal, but the chances of that happening now that he's being outperformed by a teammate with such consistency?

    That doesn't make him immoral, but it does make him mortal.
     
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  12. Betty blue

    Betty blue

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    Where did you get that Vettel is being outperformed by his teammate with such consistency!! Probably in Qualifying yes, but in races it usually swings from race to race but Vettel is ahead in in races by 8 to 5. Results in one race doesn't change the whole year, and as far as reported, Vettel suffered a very high degradation in Spa.
     
  13. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    Looking at race finishing positions on the surface without context is such a wild card, with reliability and strategic decisions coming into play.

    It's just my perspective, but Leclerc has also been in position to win with more consistency than Vettel during the season. Vettel's realistic chance was Canada, while Charles had Bahrain, Austria, and now Spa, where he actually managed the win.

    Vettel is struggling with this car, and it feels a lot like Ricciardo in 2014 to me.

    And we all know how that ended.........
     
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  14. BrainsBush

    BrainsBush

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    Looking forward to turn 1 right after the start.... :scared:

    Guess Ferrari wins at their home circuit on this power track.
     
  15. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    I find Monza to be one of the most dull tracks, so I'm hoping F1 can come up with something to generate interest like they've managed the last couple of races.

    My biggest interest is seeing what Albon will do. Can he qualify with the other top five, and more importantly can he hang with them at all during the race? Something Gasly was almost never able to do. He showed good form in Spa (lucking out a little with those final two spots), but can he come to grips with the Red Bull effectively, or show some bits of pure talent?

    PS: And as usual, 80% chance of some decent collision on turn one.
     
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  16. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    Decent, eh? Seems a little soon after Spa, but that's just my opinion.
     
  17. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    Stop reading into stuff. If you don't use the word decent the way I do, I'm not interested in your opinion.
     
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  18. NotThePrez

    NotThePrez

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    I think what would drive Vettel to retire isn't even the safety or speed of his teammate, it's Ferrari's performance as an organization. Vettel seems to almost constantly be arguing with his engineers over strategy, and as far as I've noticed, Vettel's predictions are usually spot-on. Hell, in Germany he basically called the strategy from the race car. And despite how often this problems come up, it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

    At the same time, Vettel also has nowhere to really go that'll give him similar performance to Ferrari. Merc has basically the dream duo right now, and aren't in a major rush to change after signing Bottas. He could maybe return to Red Bull, but RBR has basically become Max Verstappen Racing. And Red Bull are clearly eyeing either Albon, Kvyat, and possibly Gasly if he can get his act together. Anything else would be a noticeable downgrade.

    I'm pretty sure Vettel will at least finish up his contract next year, than make a decision on whether or not to continue based on the state of Ferrari and the new car regs. That being said, I'd say there's a solid chance he'll retire then.
     
  19. BrainsBush

    BrainsBush

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    During last weeks funny 'True or False' Q&A with Dutch Olav&Jack Sebastian confirmed* he will drive at least next year also on Zandvoort. After that he (and probably also the team) will indeed review all options.

    * confirmed: for what's it worth nowadays
     
  20. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    Ferrari should smash it here. Red Bull should be good here but unfortunately Max won't be a contender, but we will get to have a good look at what Albon can do. And like last year Williams should be faster here.
     
  21. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    Yeah, this is sort of the point I was trying to make.

    I think he's not happy with the car, and he's one of those drivers who REALLY needs the car to suit his style.

    As a result, he's unhappy with the total team performance, AND he is [often?] being outperformed by his teammate. And Charles is definitely on the hot streak of the two, going back to France. Germany being the exception, but that race was certainly exceptional in many respects.

    The latter is NOT a scenario he's really all that used to. With both Webber and Kimi, they of course would occasionally rise up on a track that suited them, or when Vettel was having mechanical issues or an off day.

    But as I said, I think 2014 and this year are quite similar - New teammate, as the car goes in a new direction that does not suit his style. I think he's just not in a good place mentally, and it shows right now.
     
  22. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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  23. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    The '71 Monza was maybe the most exiting F1 race ever. With no chicanes, they were two wide out of the Lesmos, and 4 wide on the straights.
     
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  24. DesertPenguin

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    Imagine we did Monza with no chicanes? The runoffs and safety is better than in 1971, that's for sure.
     
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  25. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    Personally I find chicane-less Monza to be a bit boring to drive on in modern racecars. You need something with a lot less grip to make Curva Grande an exciting corner that separates the aliens from the normal people. I've had many fun online races in fully modified Caterham 7s in GT5 there. :D Searching for grip at 150mph, wheeeee. :lol:

    Although if they got rid of the della Roggia chicane, that could improve chances of overtaking at Lesmo 1. You need more run-off at Lesmo 1 if you're going to do that though.

    Driving a Lotus 49 or Maserati 250F on 1960s Monza in Assetto Corsa is something I personally enjoy very much.
     
  26. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    Wet FP1 has been pretty eventful. Raikkonen and Perez have hit the wall, Gasly got temporarily beached on the sausage kerb at Turn 2 and countless drivers missing the first chicane.
     
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  27. FutureF1

    FutureF1

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    Uhhh McLaren P2 and P3? Is this heaven?
     
  28. BrainsBush

    BrainsBush

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    Thanks. I just came home from helping our oldest daughter to move from Leiden to Leuven (everything for the 'kids'). I was wondering if FP1 was worth watching in the replay. Will do now before FP2 begins.
     
  29. Rossell2

    Rossell2

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    No it's wet :cool:
     
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  30. Liquid

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    I just checked the weather for Sunday and according to Google, at least, it's going to be overcast Sunday afternoon with a 25% chance of rain but there will have been rain early Sunday morning.

    So a greasy track should make for an interesting race.