Formula 1 2019 Formula 1 Gran Premio Heineken d'Italia

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Jimlaad43, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. DesertPenguin

    DesertPenguin Premium

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    Yea, makes sense.
     
  2. chromatic9

    chromatic9 Premium

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    Mercedes should've had Lewis stay out instead of going for the early undercut. Leclerc's tyres were getting bad and Lewis coming in just helped him. He could've gone longer and really took it to Leclerc to the final lap.

    This was race was perfect or at least a much better chance to complete what Lewis just missed out on in Spa.

    Even so it was a great performance from Leclerc at his age and experience. He's the real deal and glad he was given Kimi's seat.
     
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  3. Betty blue

    Betty blue

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    No, you made a selective statement regarding his performance compare to his teammate judging only by Spa where he underperformed, then you argue about his mistakes to consolidate your opinion. There's two different elements here. (His speed, his mistakes). My first post that you quoted is clarifying that on average across the season that Vettel finished ahead in races more than Leclerc, and it's changing from races to others. About mistakes, I believe both were making an equal amount of mistakes, but the media is much harder on Vettel.
     
  4. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    If Bottas wins every remaining race and gets fastest lap with Hamilton second in each Hamilton still wins the title by seven points.

    He really needs to step up, or Hamilton really needs to not finish some races.
     
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  5. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    Mercedes winning every race is no longer a given for the remainder of the season.
     
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  6. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    On average Vettel has been Ferrari's priority driver in race strategy, we know that they've kacked on Leclerc in Vettel's favour several times so far. For that reason I don't think final race position is a great indicator.

    Leclerc has thrown some good chances away with rookie errors, he is a rookie after all. Vettel has thrown some good chances away with rookie errors, he's a four-time world champion. The media is always going to be harder on the champion than the rookie, particularly when the rookie begins to outperform the champion in race wins and quali times, and I think that's quite right. Anybody who thinks Vettel's current performances are on a par with his best seasons is, in my opinion, deluding themselves.
     
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  7. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    Yeah, Red Bull came strong at the end of last year, and it was only Verstappen being too optimistic or Renault-liability at some points that stopped them winning more races. Ferrari managed to get wins at the last two races they have a chance of being fastest at. They'll need some truly spectacular capitulation from Merc and Red Bull to get another win.
     
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  8. Betty blue

    Betty blue

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    On average Ferrari have made the sensible choice to prioritize the car who looked in better shape to get a better result in hindsight. Other than Australia where it was useless, I believe they were fair for both. I'm not deluding myself, Seb isn't in his best seasons. I admit, he's aging after all. But to say that Leclerc has outperformed him massively across the whole season is too much.

    And Leclerc is not a rookie, he made around 35 starts in two seasons, that's about where Hamilton won his first championship. Don't overplay his results.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  9. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Just Redbulls luck to winge and complain about Renault engines to change to the worst on the grid, Renault proves today their engines have stepped up big time and I would say they are at or close to Mercedes in Power atleast.
     
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  10. evldave333

    evldave333

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    Egotism is clouding you're judgement, the drivers table doesn't lie...
     
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  11. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    It was not in relation only to Spa, come on man.

    Do you honestly think Vettel was on the mark at Austria or Hungary?

    Look, man. You quoted me to start this, and I'm not internet debate man, by any stretch.

    But I really don't think you are seeing this clearly.
     
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  12. desmodan

    desmodan

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    Overhead shots seam to show Renault losing ground , slightly , over the first 40-50 meters out of a corner but able to hold their own once traction is under control
     
  13. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    One decent race from the Renaults doesn't mean that they are there. They will be struggling to reach the points next race.
     
  14. mustafur

    mustafur

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    I was talking about the engines. The car itself is a country mile from a good position.
     
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  15. desmodan

    desmodan

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    Agreed they're still a ways off being a contender , but a fraction here and an increment there and. all of a sudden you've gained 1/4 of a second .
    And in F1 time that's about a week
     
  16. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    Yep, their car's poor on the brakes and poor in the corners. Monza has 5 braking zones and long straights, admittedly the engine had to give good power for them to make use of it but overall I think Monza flattered them far beyond their normal level.
     
  17. RazorSharkz

    RazorSharkz

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    I don't even care if Renault's pace is permanent. It was just cool to see another colored car in the top 5
     
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  18. Grayfox

    Grayfox

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    Since Ferrari have a number 1 driver mindset.
    Is Vettel still #1 driver?
     
  19. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    Obviously not.

    They proved it last week, when he played the Barrichello role.
     
  20. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    Wouldn't be surprised if that was Ferrari's "strategy" all along. Correcting their mistakes right at the point it could be too late has been a repeat offense so far.
    What are the odds Vettel goes back to Horner and asks for Albon's spot? Does Red Bull welcome him back with open arms based on 4-straight championships?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  21. Grayfox

    Grayfox

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    He would be the type that would go to Mercedes.
    Bottas is on a 1 year contract IIRC.
     
  22. LordExia

    LordExia

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    Was it a given that they were going to win every race? If anyone thought that, surely they forgot that this is racing and anything can happen! :lol:
     
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  23. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    This race proves you don't need impressive overtaking statistics to make it an exciting race. You just need drama, preferably from a battle for the lead. Was on the edge of my seat for most of it. :lol: It's amazing how Leclerc was able to stay in front for so long, although straight line speed did help here.

    This is why having a nice variety of circuits on the calendar is important, it helps to shake things up a bit with different winners on occasion. From the tight and slow corners of Monaco, to the fast sweeping curves of Spa, to the long straights of Monza, and everything in between.
     
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  24. McLaren

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    But that's probably founded on if Bottas leaves on his own; where would he go? Lewis & Mercedes are probably more than content to keep him around as the #2. And last I read, that's now through next season.
     
  25. GTFan24

    GTFan24

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    Can i just say LeClerc's post race radio was earrape inducing? :lol:
     
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  26. Grayfox

    Grayfox

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    True.

    I doubt they will ditch bottas just to replace him with a stuck up driver like vettel.
     
  27. GTFan24

    GTFan24

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    For those that missed Charles' eardrum breaking radio:
     
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  28. ROAD_DOGG33J

    ROAD_DOGG33J Premium

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    Not sure why he would want to. He would end up in a similar position as he is in Ferrari, unless Verstappen moves. And as they say in F1: "you're only as good as your last race."
     
  29. McLaren

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    Of course.

    I'm operating under the assumption it's done with Vettel knowing he's lost his spark, though, that seeking out Horner & Newey once again could not only keep him in a competitive car, but back with a more stable team that has a 4-time championship chemistry with him. The question is naturally, can he play nice with Max & rekindle with RBR (also assuming none of the Toro Rosso youngsters are working out as they'd like), but I don't know where else he would go that would put him a position to keep winning if this time with Ferrari doesn't end on a high note. I haven't read what his relationship with Ferrari has been like since he joined & how things were when Kimi was there, but it doesn't appear any better than his final season with RBR.

    As mentioned earlier, Mick seems to be Ferrari's next driver-up in a couple seasons and LeClerc as of now, seems clearly to be his future teammate.
     
  30. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    I think it’s worse than that, the role of the number 2 is to get the best possible result of the number 1 can’t.

    As his engineer said, it was his race to loose, and he lost it. If I was Toto I’d be pretty upset that Bottas couldn’t even pressure Leclerc on much much fresher tyres...
     
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