2019 IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar ChampionshipSports Cars

[flip55]

Thoughts on the race:

• Weather. I feel bad for anyone who only tuned in on Sunday, because Saturday into the night was absolutely fantastic! It's awful we lost so much time, but I think IMSA did what they had to. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
• DPi. Basically went how I predicted: Mazdas blew up, #10 Caddie wins. Although, I'll say that they earned it. DPi was very close amongst the top teams, which was great to see! Bodes well for the season.
• Mazda. I don't know if they need to get away from AER, or come up with a new power plant entirely, but I don't think they'll make it to end of Sebring, at this rate.
• LMP2. The split is being really poorly handled, IMO. There was virtually no TV coverage of the class, and minimal mentions from the radio broadcast. Even when timing and scoring said there was no more than 3 seconds between the cars on the lead lap at times. 2 of them finished in the top 10 at the end of the day (almost had 3 before the final red flag). If IMSA is as committed to the class as they say and want the category to survive, this doesn't show well.
• Both GT classes. It's gonna be a year of 'Throw a dart at a board and see where you wind up.' That's how close those classes are.

I hate how much the weather effected everything, because up to that point, the racing was great. I wouldn't say any of the class winners won by accident due to the conditions. At the end of the day, the podiums were made up of teams that were (mostly) near the front all race. On to Sebring!

 

[McLaren]

So do I, but my entire point is that there's something fundamentally wrong with ending a large-scale endurance event due to heavy rainfall. IMSA and Daytona needs to ensure it won't happen again. Better draining would be a good start.

No, there's not when done in the name of safety.

Point being?

They tried, they couldn't do it. The decision to have them was done in attempt to get the race going. It was never a guarantee.

Drainage will minimize poor visibility. Less water equates to less spray.

Man, they ought to get you on the development board for construction. First we'll make the drainage even bigger on Daytona. Then we'll move down to Miami and build bigger drains so people can still go to work in borderline monsoons. I mean, clearly that's the issue, not coping with how intensely the rain is actually coming down before it even hits the pavement in addition to the standing water created as a result.

True, but a lot of hours were wasted hoping for restarts that took forever to happen and finally didn't.

Point is be glad for what you got....

Don't bring Zanardi into this. He is among the older and classier generation of race car drivers. I've already pointed out that IndyCar is way more dangerous in dry conditions than IMSA is under heavy rain. Zanardi kind of proves my point, unfortunately, but far worse things have happened in IndyCar since 2001. IndyCar oval racing is insanely dangerous compared to anything in sports car racing.

I will bring Zanardi into it because he's one of the "spoiled brats" who said the race should be stopped.

IndyCar is only more dangerous given the car at hand. A torrential downpour would put a stop to their race as much as it would IMSA, F1, etc.

 

[Spirit]

And his example proves two things. Car safety saves lives nowadays and accidents can always happen, but we are not banning motorsports entirely. I get that you're trying to suggest that something similar can happen during the poor visibility of rain, but then Daytona needs to invest in better drainage. Red-flagging for hours and hours kills the sport.

I’m not challenging the fact that motor racing venues could improve drainage and many other things. I’m challenging the notion that you feel that drivers are entitled brats and should have no input on the conditions they are forced to race in.

 

[GTPorsche]

I’m baffled how pretty much all of you can forgive how the race ended under red flag. The blow dryer trucks were working hard to make it restart, but somehow they made us wait for nothing. If danger really was a legitimate concern due to water, Daytona needs to invest in much better drainage. It may be a historically important event getting some leverage, but IMSA needs to impose certain standards on their host venues. IMSA is currently aiming to expand globally, but ending their biggest annual event under red flag kind of defeats the purpose. This race and the ending in particular was a middle finger to all fans who planned their weekend around this race. I’ve watched many endurance events over the years, but I can’t recall one where race officials enabled such an anti-climatic joke.

It's a race, taking place at an oval.

That oval has a lake in the middle where almost half of the racing surface is mere inches above the surface of said lake.

Which is also mere feet above sea level that's a few miles away.

Better drainage isn't possible with the soil that Florida has and those situations.

Especially when inches of rain had fallen.

Get over yourself.

 

[Nielsen]

No, there's not when done in the name of safety.

I'm getting tired of this recurring safety argument. Motorsports are not 100% safe by default, and no one was endangered today.

They tried, they couldn't do it. The decision to have them was done in attempt to get the race going. It was never a guarantee.

True it was never a guarantee, but the dryers did more than enough to leave room for at least some final laps with less spray.

Man, they ought to get you on the development board for construction. First we'll make the drainage even bigger on Daytona. Then we'll move down to Miami and build bigger drains so people can still go to work in borderline monsoons. I mean, clearly that's the issue, not coping with how intensely the rain is actually coming down before it even hits the pavement in addition to the standing water created as a result.

Funny.

Point is be glad for what you got....

So IMSA is too good to care about spectator approval? What has the world become.

I will bring Zanardi into it because he's one of the "spoiled brats" who said the race should be stopped.

He can say that just fine, but I doubt he would ever act entitled like Alonso has done so often.

IndyCar is only more dangerous given the car at hand.

So I take it you want IndyCar banned entirely?

I’m not challenging the fact that motor racing venues could improve drainage and many other things. I’m challenging the notion that you feel that drivers are entitled brats and should have no input on the conditions they are forced to race in.

No one is forcing them... They are free to retire if they don't have what it takes to be athletes under the conditions that apply.

It's a race, taking place at an oval.

That oval has a lake in the middle where almost half of the racing surface is mere inches above the surface of said lake.

Which is also mere feet above sea level that's a few miles away.

Better drainage isn't possible with the soil that Florida has and those situations.

Especially when inches of rain had fallen.

Get over yourself.

There are ways to circumvent a swampy soil. You might as well get over yourself.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I’m baffled how pretty much all of you can forgive how the race ended under red flag. The blow dryer trucks were working hard to make it restart, but somehow they made us wait for nothing. If danger really was a legitimate concern due to water, Daytona needs to invest in much better drainage. It may be a historically important event getting some leverage, but IMSA needs to impose certain standards on their host venues. IMSA is currently aiming to expand globally, but ending their biggest annual event under red flag kind of defeats the purpose. This race and the ending in particular was a middle finger to all fans who planned their weekend around this race. I’ve watched many endurance events over the years, but I can’t recall one where race officials enabled such an anti-climatic joke.

Wow amazing, fans got basically shorted an hour and a half of racing so drivers didn't get hurt, spectators didn't have risk, and track staff. What a middle finger that is, holy hell. It's almost like they canceled the race after 3 hours if people were to read your rants without context, but in reality the race when 22 and a half hours. I can recall anti-climatic jokes, they were such a let down that the prediction in who would win could be seen before the race started. But yeah this is the worst, unless we treat it like we should which is a fickle minded user wants to go on some

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

Hey look a BS cop out. Damn never fails every years when something goes not to the standards of certain people/"fans" they stamp their feet and then let their fingers run wild in a public space on the internet to expression the transgressions. Which most times are so inane and off the wall they'd have just been best to stand at the mirror and have a back and forth their instead.

Curious why every year this is...

Edit: What ways do you circumvent swampy soils and soft beach foundation?

 

[DesertPenguin]

no one was endangered today.

Yes, they were. The fact that you don't get this one crucial thing is invalidating everything else you say.

 

[Dotini]

Especially when inches of rain had fallen.

Was it 5 inches or only 2 inches of rain that fell this morning at Daytona? Reports vary, but either way that's a lot of rain.

 

[Nielsen]

Yes, they were. The fact that you don't get this one crucial thing is invalidating everything else you say.

Not any more than usual. The Memo Gidley example above proves how low sun on a dry track can be just as bad as spray from a wet track. Should we also begin to red-flag sunsets and sunrises?

 

[GTPorsche]

Was it 5 inches or only 2 inches of rain that fell this morning at Daytona? Reports vary, but either way that's a lot of rain.

I heard 2-5 inches, but I'm not sure what the actual amount was.

 

[Panoz]

I’m baffled how pretty much all of you can forgive how the race ended under red flag. The blow dryer trucks were working hard to make it restart, but somehow they made us wait for nothing. If danger really was a legitimate concern due to water, Daytona needs to invest in much better drainage. It may be a historically important event getting some leverage, but IMSA needs to impose certain standards on their host venues. IMSA is currently aiming to expand globally, but ending their biggest annual event under red flag kind of defeats the purpose. This race and the ending in particular was a middle finger to all fans who planned their weekend around this race. I’ve watched many endurance events over the years, but I can’t recall one where race officials enabled such an anti-climatic joke.

I should be bitching and moaning that I spent over $1000 to attend the race only for the rain to ruined it.

Guess what. I enjoyed it every bit of the 4 days at track including when the rain hit at the end. Also, I didn't hear anybody complaining about the stoppages when they happen and enjoying the green flag periods of the race while staying dry.

 

[Spirit]

no one was endangered today.

Not any more than usual.

I wholeheartedly disagree for the many reasons discussed above.

 

[McLaren]

I'm getting tired of this recurring safety argument. Motorsports are not 100% safe by default, and no one was endangered today.

No one was endangered because they cut the race short. You seem to be forgetting certain risks can not be reduced through safety precautions.

True it was never a guarantee, but the dryers did more than enough to leave room for at least some final laps with less spray.

That's from your perspective. When you're race director next time, you can give the green light.

So IMSA is too good to care about spectator approval? What has the world become.

If the best viewpoint for a race wasn't enough for spectators to stay (besides the 1 dude way up at Turn 1), pretty sure they'll forgive the drivers.

He can say that just fine, but I doubt he would ever act entitled like Alonso has done so often.

Ah, so the beef is with Alonso and you want to exaggerate that he had some sort of God control over the race when he wasn't even first....

So I take it you want IndyCar banned entirely?

Reach further.

Just because 1 sport is more dangerous in dry conditions than another in wet doesn't mean the second sport should suck it up. The weather conditions would sideline any motorsport.

No one is forcing them... They are free to retire if they don't have what it takes to be athletes under the conditions that apply.

"Hurr durr, fearing for my safety as a professional makes me a pansy".

They need to race in a monsoon/hurricane next year. That will show the real athletes.

 

[Nielsen]

I should be bitching and moaning that I spent over $1000 to attend the race only for the rain to ruined it.

Guess what. I enjoyed it every bit of the 4 days at track including when the rain hit at the end. Also, I didn't hear anybody complaining about the stoppages when they happen and enjoying the green flag periods of the race while staying dry.

No wonder you enjoyed a four-day trip. My trips to Le Mans so far have been 50% holiday and 50% racing, which can compensate for much nonsense on the track.

I wholeheartedly disagree for the many reasons discussed above.

Your disagreement would be fair enough, but the childish meme ruined it for you.

No one was endangered because they cut the race short. You seem to be forgetting certain risks can not be reduced through safety precautions.

There's no denying on my part that rain on the track is riskier than no rain, but advances in overall driver safety have done plenty to ensure that no one was in exceptional danger.

If the best viewpoint for a race wasn't enough for spectators to stay (besides the 1 dude way up at Turn 1), pretty sure they'll forgive the drivers.

So those of us who watched on TV don't matter? You do realise that IMSA is trying to expand cooperation with various broadcasters worldwide?

Ah, so the beef is with Alonso and you want to exaggerate that he had some sort of God control over the race when he wasn't even first....

Nothing personal. Any driver having an entitled mentality needs to back off when a higher up says no.

Reach further.

Just because 1 sport is more dangerous in dry conditions than another in wet doesn't mean the second sport should suck it up. The weather conditions would sideline any motorsport.

That's what I consider to be inconsistent logic. Why must IMSA cover itself in bubble foam when another four-wheeled discipline gets a free pass to cheat death at every turn? IndyCar should at least impose closed cockpits in order to become remotely sane, in my opinion.

 

[McLaren]

N
There's no denying on my part that rain on the track is riskier than no rain, but advances in overall driver safety have done plenty to ensure that no one was in exceptional danger.

To a degree. Those advances have not overcome Mother Nature else again, we can just go ahead and race in a hurricane next year.

So those of us who watched on TV don't matter? You do realise that IMSA is trying to expand cooperation with various broadcasters worldwide?

Uh, yeah actually, you don't. None of us do in the situation that presented itself. That's really the bottom line at the end of the day because we're not taking on any risks.

Hence why I said when even the fans who are out there like @Panoz don't want to be in that rain, we can forgive the actual people participating.

Nothing personal. Any driver having an entitled mentality needs to back off when a higher up says no.

And yet when the Race Director said no to further racing:

No one is forcing them... They are free to retire if they don't have what it takes to be athletes under the conditions that apply.

That's what I consider to be inconsistent logic. Why must IMSA cover itself in bubble foam when another four-wheeled discipline gets a free pass to cheat death at every turn? IndyCar should at least impose closed cockpits in order to become remotely sane, in my opinion.

The weather that stopped the Rolex 24 would have stopped Indy as well. Not sure how you miss that.

 

[Spirit]

The weather that stopped the Rolex 24 would have stopped Indy as well.

For reference it stopped the IndyCar race at Barber last year, but since they had not completed enough of the race, it was postponed rather than concluded.

 

[GTPorsche]

That weather would have stopped every racing series short of offshore powerboats and the America's Cup.

 

[Nielsen]

To a degree. Those advances have not overcome Mother Nature else again, we can just go ahead and race in a hurricane next year.

Was it one or two years ago that Daytona was so cold that slick tires barely keep up optimum temperature during the night? Cars lost traction all the time, but it didn't stop them from racing under green. It doesn't add up how heavy rain is being treated as something way beyond other challenges caused by the natural environment. Alonso's driving today proved that the conditions were manageable with adequate talent.

Uh, yeah actually, you don't. None of us do in the situation that presented itself. That's really the bottom line at the end of the day because we're not taking on any risks.

IMSA is taking a popularity risk when red-flagging so much of the race, including the final hours. Viewers fall asleep from boredom, which doesn't help making sports car racing more popular, yet it tries to become just that by reaching out to TV audiences worldwide.

And yet when the Race Director said no to further racing:

The race director was wrong to not give the cars at least three more laps at the end. The track was being prepared for it, which is kind of the whole root of this discussion.

The weather that stopped the Rolex 24 would have stopped Indy as well. Not sure how you miss that.

I don't miss that. You didn't answer my question.

 

[Spirit]

but it didn't stop them from racing under green.

Actually it did. They had a Safety Car period so long the Safety Car was forced to swap out with another one due to low fuel.

IMSA is taking a popularity risk when red-flagging so much of the race, including the final hours.

Safety > Popularity
Drivers > TV viewers

The race director was wrong to not give the cars at least three more laps at the end. The track was being prepared for it, which is kind of the whole root of this discussion.

Integrity > Entertainment

A 3 lap dash to decide the race is beyond stupid, in my opinion. Logistically I doubt they even would have had the time to properly restart the race had the track been deemed acceptable to begin with.

 

[Nielsen]

That weather would have stopped every racing series short of offshore powerboats and the America's Cup.

And you say that like it's a thing to justify IMSA's move. I'm done with this!

Actually it did. They had a Safety Car period so long the Safety Car was forced to swap out with another one due to low fuel.

Solely as a result of the cold track surface? In that case, what a shame but still no where near as bad as ending the race under red flag.

 

[Spirit]

Solely as a result of the cold track surface? In that case, what a shame but still no where near as bad as ending the race under red flag.

As a result of the rain. It also helps that the weather system moved out of the area with hours to go in the race and was not present in the closing stages. Had that been the case that race probably would have ended under caution or red, which there's not a real difference other than cars circulating.

 

[Leadfoot530]

Wow.

 

[Nielsen]

I expect Memo Gidley would disagree quite strongly. The #63 Ferrari hit the back of the #540 Porsche in the same way (head on into the back of another car) for the same reason (lack of visability) but with a much lower speed differential, and it still destroyed the front of the car. A stationary spun car on the back straight could have been fatal.

I somehow missed this post, which I'll answer before turning my back on this whole travesty. The blow dryers were sent onto track during the final hours to avoid something like this from happening. The effect was obviously not going to last for long, but surely long enough to put the full wet compounds into their preferred zone (why wet compounds exist). The failure of race control to realize this is poor judgement and detrimental to the whole thing. The next person to bring up safety concerns once more will give me an aneurism. While very likely the actual reason, it's unacceptable for reasons stated multiple times now. Those of you applauding today's call to end the race under red flag simply disappoint me as fellow fans of sports racing.

 

[-Fred-]

I guess we might as well go back to leather helmets, magnesium fuel tanks and remove all the walls and catch fencing...

 

[fortbo]

I somehow missed this post, which I'll answer before turning my back on this whole travesty. The blow dryers were sent onto track during the final hours to avoid something like this from happening. The effect was obviously not going to last for long, but surely long enough to put the full wet compounds into their preferred zone (why wet compounds exist). The failure of race control to realize this is poor judgement and detrimental to the whole thing. The next person to bring up safety concerns once more will give me an aneurism. While very likely the actual reason, it's unacceptable for reasons stated multiple times now. Those of you applauding today's call to end the race under red flag simply disappoint me as fellow fans of sports racing.

You are not a true racing fan if you could care less for driver safety. I’ll say it again, you have no place, and I mean no place whatsoever to make any sort of comment about how you feel like it was wrong for the drivers to not want to race in unsafe conditions.

Racing is not a death match and it is not meant to be one ever. I can’t understant how dense you must be to not understand the fact that drivers are the priority, not the fans. When drivers say that conditions are unsafe, they are.

You do not know better than a professional racecar driver nor do you know any better than any amateur racecar driver or even someone who has just driven a single track day in the wet. You have no knowledge on what it takes and no place as someone sitting at home to criticize drivers and race stewards for red flagging a race for unsafe conditions. I can’t believe you’re still arguing this.

 

[Silver Arrows]

After getting owned so relentlessly and showing little regard for safety as something that is a detriment to entertainment, now he leaves.

Ultimately there was nothing that IMSA could do. It is what it is. Better drainage would be nice to have moving forward, but as has been described, that isn't going to happen because of environmental reasons, both legitimate and rooted in NIMBYism. Yet you still try to act as if your points have merit, which they clearly don't. The fact that you called the drivers 'spoiled brats' for having the gall to consider their safety over the entertainment from one jagoff sitting at home watching the race on TV, shows just how little you really care about the drivers other then as blank robots for your entertainment.

Indeed, I don't know why you continue to insist on dying on this hill. If you want to wax poetic about how the older days of racing was better and the drivers weren't spoiled brats, where drivers dying and being maimed by the bushel was accepted and tolerated, I'm sure that there are lots of resources for you to be enthralled by such a thing. Until then - see you all at the next event.

 

[Omnis]

I was trying to bend over backwards to dump my shifts at work to go to the race this year. I'm SO happy that didn't work out. It's raining so goddamn much here in Florida that it's ridiculous.

 

[McLaren]

Was it one or two years ago that Daytona was so cold that slick tires barely keep up optimum temperature during the night? Cars lost traction all the time, but it didn't stop them from racing under green. It doesn't add up how heavy rain is being treated as something way beyond other challenges caused by the natural environment.

Probably because they could still see where the hell they were going....

Alonso's driving today proved that the conditions were manageable with adequate talent.

Ah, so now Alonso is proof everyone should've kept racing but was also entitled, & whined to stop the race?

IMSA is taking a popularity risk when red-flagging so much of the race, including the final hours. Viewers fall asleep from boredom, which doesn't help making sports car racing more popular, yet it tries to become just that by reaching out to TV audiences worldwide.

Red flags accounted for roughly 4 hours. The first red flag happened w/ 7 hours to go; you got 17 hours of racing up until then. The race resumed with around 5 hours to go. Second red flag happened with 2 hours to go. All-in-all fans got roughly 20 hours of racing.

The fans got more than enough racing action for 1 weekend, and have 11 more races to enjoy.

The race director was wrong to not give the cars at least three more laps at the end. The track was being prepared for it, which is kind of the whole root of this discussion.

3 more laps? For 10 minutes of racing at best as the slowest cars were lapping 1:45-1:50 lap times before the very end? Yeah, that's not really worthy any team's effort except for 10 opponents to actually try and compete off the start for 1st. Prior to that, Konica had a 13-second gap over 2nd and 3rd in DPi, BMW had a 1 second lead over Risi in GTLM, and Grasser had a 5-second lead over Montaplast; 3rd-5th in GTD were back by 30 seconds.

I don't miss that. You didn't answer my question.

It answered your question.

Why must IMSA cover itself in bubble foam when another four-wheeled discipline gets a free pass to cheat death at every turn?

That other sport would have covered itself in the same bubble foam if it encountered the same weather.

Being more dangerous is a failed argument. Where as Indy is more dangerous than IMSA, IMSA is more dangerous than other sports. So why do other sports stop because of some heavy snow or rain if IMSA drivers are taking more risks in dry conditions? Because logic dictates all athletes, regardless of being in a car or on their feet, are at greater risk of participating in harsh weather.

Those of you applauding today's call to end the race under red flag simply disappoint me as fellow fans of sports racing.

I suggest you build a time machine and travel back to the 30's-50's if driver risk is your fetish, then....

 

[05XR8]

After it all, two Supercars drivers finished in 32 & 33. Couldn't call that one. Amazing.

 

[jake2013guy]

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

And I've lost the very small amount of respect I have for you. Go watch NASCAR where they send cars to crash intentionally. In fact, I think you'll love the inevitable mess at Daytona in a few weeks.

You've adopted the spoilt brat mentality. You're expecting people you don't know or have relationships with to drive on a dangerous track purely for your entertainment. That's a spoilt brat. Not somebody who's annoyed at being told to drive in conditions where they actually could get injured or lose a car.

Your replies just show you're completely ignorant. You complain about the spoilt brat mentality and want a green flag finish for no reason. That's why you should watch NASCAR. Go watch the Daytona (Whatever It Will Be After the GWC attempts). You'll never be dissatisfied. Unless it rains. Then you'll complain "Mummy. Those cars aren't racing for my entertainment. I don't care if they don't have wet tyres on ovals and would spin anyway, they must race for my entertainment." Because you have the spoilt brat mentality you accuse everyone else of having.

Those of you applauding today's call to end the race under red flag simply disappoint me as fellow fans of sports racing.

Applauding is not the same as respecting a decision. Though, nobody's applauding you. Or respecting you.

Alonso's driving today proved that the conditions were manageable with adequate talent.

Please do ignore the times where his car was visibly aquaplaning in various places.