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There are other super speedways in the United States that could be added to the calendar in place of Pocono. I understand that Pocono is part of the "classic" triple crown but if it was replaced by a different super speedway it wouldn't be the end of the world and besides, like Tornado says, in the interests of "we don't want another driver death and paraplegic in the space of 4 years" if it went down to just two on the calendar whilst safety improvements were made then that's not only fine but necessary too.
 
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They'll have to watch whatever replaced if on television, just like I do now that they don't go to Watkins anymore.
Except Watkins Glen didn't have an IndyCar race sponsor and failed attract a decent crowd. Pocono Raceway, on the other hand, has an IndyCar race sponsor and the attendance has grown every year. With Pocono Raceway losing their 2nd NASCAR race weekend next year, it's a prime opportunity for both Pocono Raceway and IndyCar to attract an even larger crowd.

Not to the extent that it overrides the drivers who say they don't want to race there anymore. Not to the extent that it overrides my discomfort that they race there at all.
See above motorsport.com article. Dixon, Power, and Pagenaud still want to race there. They're much more experienced than the part-time drivers who are too scared to do their job. And why should your illogical discomfort override the scientific knowledge of countless IndyCar drivers, engineers, and fans? I offered a sound engineering solution, raising the SAFER
job barriers to the height of the catch fence would make any superspeedway safer for any race car.

[citation needed]
All you have you have to do is look at all the ovals IndyCar has lost in the past 20 years. Even NASCAR is dealing with falling attendance at ovals.

Sure they are.
Why wouldn't Pocono Raceway want to make safety improvements to keep their IndyCar race? It's in their best interest to do so.

Great. IRL can look into returning the track after it is done, along with changes to get better medical team response times, elimination of the sections of wall that are still just concrete, and the garbage decrepit catch fencing that wouldn't be covered with SAFER barrier.

That way Pocono won't drag their feet for a few years/decades on it like the always have.
First of all, it's hasn't been called the IRL since 2002. Secondly, Pocono Raceway, IndyCar, ABC Supply, NASCAR, and Gander RV could all pitch in for track improvements that could be completed in time for next year's races. Once again, it's in everyone's best interest to do so.

If they somehow can't find a third from the dozen or so other ones in the country, then two is fine by me for now
Which superspeedways are actively trying to host an IndyCar race? And how exactly do you hope to convince another superspeedway to host an IndyCar race when you're willing to dump a superspeedway with a race sponsor and attendance that has grown every single year?
 
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Except Watkins Glen didn't have an IndyCar race sponsor and failed attract a decent crowd.
So?

Pocono Raceway, on the other hand, has an IndyCar race sponsor and the attendance has grown every year. With Pocono Raceway losing their 2nd NASCAR race weekend next year, it's a prime opportunity for both Pocono Raceway and IndyCar to attract an even larger crowd.
So?




In case you're forgetting, what you said in this discussion about a track's safety was that I should care more about how people want to go see the track in person (as if a race track has never had a series drop it at any point in the past) and how much money the race makes for the series more than I should care about my own long-held feelings of the track's safety relative to other similar tracks. Repeating that people want to go see the race in person and that the race makes money is not a rebuttal for that; even ignoring the fact that if it was replaced with another venue people may want to go see that and it may also make money.

See above motorsport.com article. Dixon, Power, and Pagenaud still want to race there.
I like how you think just because the actual quotes were posted, that we both were clearly already aware of since you already referenced them and I already acknowledged them, I'm supposed to change my mind for whether I want them back at that track.

They're much more experienced than the part-time drivers who are too scared to do their job.
I'm sure Wickens would love to hear that if he hadn't become paralyzed in his rookie year, he would have gained enough experience to not be afraid of future racing on the track where it happened. You should get on Twitter and let him know.

I offered a sound engineering solution, raising the SAFER j
ob barriers to the height of the catch fence would make any superspeedway safer for any race car.
Great. IRL can look into returning to the track after it is done, along with changes to get better medical team response times, elimination of the sections of wall that are still just concrete, and the garbage decrepit catch fencing that wouldn't be covered with SAFER barrier.

All you have you have to do is look at all the ovals IndyCar has lost in the past 20 years. Even NASCAR is dealing with falling attendance at ovals.
Yeah, that's not proof that a circuit would rather not have an event at all than have an IRL race.



On that note:
Why wouldn't Pocono Raceway want to make safety improvements to keep their IndyCar race?
So it's in Pocono's best interest to have an IRL race instead of nothing, but not all those other tracks across the US that are capable of hosting a race to replace it (even in the short term, and even if they don't need to do anything to be up to snuff in that way)?

It's in their best interest to do so.
Great. IRL can look into returning to the track after it is done, along with changes to get better medical team response times, elimination of the sections of wall that are still just concrete, and the garbage decrepit catch fencing that wouldn't be covered with SAFER barrier.

First of all, it's hasn't been called the IRL since 2002.
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It says a lot that you think this is important enough to make specific note of in a discussion about track/driver safety; as if it was something I wasn't somehow aware of in a thread where the current series title is in the title.


Secondly, Pocono Raceway, IndyCar, ABC Supply, NASCAR, and Gander RV could all pitch in for track improvements that could be completed in time for next year's races. Once again, it's in everyone's best interest to do so.
Great. IRL can look into returning to the track after it is done, along with changes to get better medical team response times, elimination of the sections of wall that are still just concrete, and the garbage decrepit catch fencing that wouldn't be covered with SAFER barrier.



You getting the theme yet, or are you going to post more about how the series should automatically commit to a return to the track before any improvements are actually made (since ticket sales are good and it makes money, I guess)?

Which superspeedways are actively trying to host an IndyCar race?
I don't know. You were the one essentially claiming that non-Pocono tracks would rather have no event at all than host a race to potentially replace the one at Pocono. It's not my job to prove otherwise; and certainly not so when IRL hasn't committed to returning to Pocono or working to find a new venue.


I'm curious why you think I should care about this either, though, since I already said that I'm not particularly bothered by two superspeedways on the schedule if (somehow) the only track in the entire country that is willing to host a third superspeedway race is Pocono as the track is now.

And how exactly do you hope to convince another superspeedway to host an IndyCar race when you're willing to dump a superspeedway with a race sponsor and attendance that has grown every single year?
A contract ran out in a race that has had headlining, horrifically-bad-optics wrecks for three out of the last four years. Some drivers, regardless of how much you want to downplay their opinions as being irrelevant because they're just inexperienced cowards, have publicly commented that they would rather the series not go back there. You type in... let's see... NTT IndyCar Series, and at the top of the page are articles and editorials about how bad the wreck was, whether the track is too dangerous to race on in those cars, calls for the track to be abandoned by the series, and how drivers are divided for whether the series should continue racing there. That's after the entirety of yesterday and Sunday where there were nothing but tweets about how they zip-tied a gate from a dog kennel to the damaged area and that it took over two minutes for anyone to check on Felix. That's on top of the usual constant hum about how ovals are inherently too unsafe for open wheel cars, which is something I already said I don't agree with.



It probably wouldn't be difficult to justify why the series moved on when searching for a new track to host a race; and the series may even come out of it looking better than before.


One more thing:
And why should your illogical discomfort
[MOD Edit]I'm not some whiny prick on Jalopnik who only brings up the series when writing articles about how IRL is hopelessly dangerous because they haven't grafted hideous goiters onto their cars like F1 and they are needlessly risking driver's lives by racing on ovals at all. I don't like this specific track. I never liked this specific track. I think the design of this specific track and the accident history of this specific track merits the powers that be not saying they are returning at least until after things about this specific track are changed.
I don't like it in NASCAR, where I've seen wrecks so violent that it ripped engine blocks off of cars and hurled them a hundred yards away, so bad that the driver got on the radio and breathed a sigh of relief that he lived through it, and where cars flew into the inside fencing so violently that the race was delayed for over an hour and shortened while they fixed the highway guardrail that still lined the infield of the track at the time
I don't like it in IRL, where in the span of three years one driver was killed and one driver was paralyzed from the waist down; and the cars themselves seem way too fast (even when the cars have been relatively slow and are set to be much faster next year) and aero-dependant to not cause violent wrecks where cars fling up in the air before landing upside down on fire to also add "very difficult to set up" on top of it.
I don't really like it period, when it's main selling point has always been how it's hard to get cars tuned right for it and to drive it, how most of the track is laid out so you can run 3 wide except the turn where the crash happened Sunday, how seemingly any wreck is going to be a hard one because the runoff is limited and the banks are all shallow, where red flags due to accidents seem as common as regular caution periods, and how the track has always had a lackadaisical attitude towards safety that only started changing when the original owner of it died.
I would be willing to overlook it once it was brought up to the standards similar to that of IMS, even if I still don't like the track's design or the racing it promotes. They installed significantly more SAFER barrier I believe last year, which is absolutely a step forward (especially since it was a proactive change this time), but it still has the same problems with 🤬 catch fencing. It still has the same problems with terrible sightlines for race spotters. Now we can seemingly add awful response times from medical staff to horrific looking accidents.


No amount of "well a lot of people want to go see it in person," "it makes money," or "this premiere nationally televised open wheel racing series somehow couldn't possibly find another oval venue for a race in their schedule in a country that has dozens of oval tracks and has previously raced ovals internationally and two superspeedways isn't enough" is going to change my feelings on whether they should race there as the track is now, and you can take your posturing that it should and shove it. I'd be more receptive to arguments from the drivers for its future, but you blew any chance of that argument being taken seriously when you contextualized it as if any driver expressing preference to not return to Pocono was merely cowardice.
 
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Eva

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In the fairness, the safety crew at Pocono is the same safety crew for all of the IndyCar races. The AMS Safety Crew travels exclusively with IndyCar for its events, and as we've seen frequently in the past, they are usually in motion before a crash has even stopped rolling. Why they were slow to get to Rosenqvist is a peculiar question, but it very much is an isolated incident in itself.
 

Northstar

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I'd like to hear radio from both Rosenqvist and race control before I make a comment on the safety team's reaction time. If he told the team/race control he was fine I could see them focusing on the other drivers as that seemed far more uncertain.
 
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Pocono is the closest track to me, couldn't go this year due to family stuff (bought a house) but planned to go next year. If Pocono won't happen, it seems my chances of seeing IndyCar in person will be zero. I'm planning to drive to Watkins Glen for IMSA but won't be able to convince the family to come to Mid-Ohio for sure.

Too bad, would have wanted to see them IRL once in my life...
 
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I haven't had a closer look at the replay, but at first glance it sure looked like Sato came down across the track. Here's a team statement (I suppose as you would expect):

https://rahal.com/2019/08/20/statem...ning-lap-crash-pocono-raceway-august-18-2019/

It sure looked like he cut in early. He even said in one interview "I thought I was clear." But I suppose bumps and wind at 200mph can be pretty sketchy sometimes and they were really close together. Still looks bad.
 
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Tornado, how do you expect any of us to take your comments seriously when all you did was let your illogical discomfort override the scientific knowledge of countless IndyCar drivers, engineers, and fans? How can you expect any of us take your comments seriously when you can't even get basic facts such as the name of the sanctioning body or the race series correct, or the fact that Felix Rosenqvist signaled the AMR IndyCar Safety Team that he was fine by both raising his helmet visor and radioing his team? How can you seriously claim to care about driver safety when you argue that Pocono Raceway should pay for all of those safety upgrades without the help of IndyCar, ABC Supply, NASCAR, and Gander RV?
 
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Northstar

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Power is out and Dixon is in the garage. :(

Edit: Santino in the lead!!!
 
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Dylan

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Bourdais is out. Spun out off of 4.
And he ALMOST took out his teammate as he spun down the track.
 

Northstar

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Sato-Carpenter-Kanaan is a podium one does not expect to see in 2019. :eek:

And not sure what Newgarden was trying there.
 
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What a finish! Congratulations to Sato, Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing, and Honda! The race for the Astor Cup continues at Portland International Raceway next weekend! :gtpflag:
 

Anathema

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One more lap and Ed would have had that.

Good win for mah boi at least, I can only hope he learns from this.

Probably a waste to hope he can change, but it's worth a shot sometimes.
 
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Bourdais is out. Spun out off of 4.
And he ALMOST took out his teammate as he spun down the track.
His teammate almost took out himself.
Ferrucci is dangerous. This is not the first time that, when being behind a crash, and unlike all other drivers in front of him, he's going through full throttle. He undoubtedly feels like a hero. Until he kill someone.
 

Northstar

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when being behind a crash, and unlike all other drivers in front of him, he's going through full throttle.

That's actually SOP for oval racing and as long as your spotter is good you'll be fine.