2020 Nissan Sylphy (aka Sentra)

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CodeRedR51

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Someone had an oopsie moment and let these get out.

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/2...ly-chinas-new-sylphy-previews-american-model/

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There's an interesting trend happening with these lower-end sedans at the moment in that they're all starting to look quite well-proportioned. I think it's because the segment has grown so much they're now as big as regular sedans used to be so you don't get the weird scrunched-up look that they've had for the last decade or two.

An early 90s Sentra looked fine - nothing special but not out of proportion either. More recent ones haven't been so hot though, but this one to my eyes at least anyway looks close enough to the Maxima to kinda work. Stick some bigger wheels on it in a Nismo version or something and it'd look quite neat.

Similarly the latest Mazda 3 sedan works really well where the last few haven't so much. The Jetta's kinda meh but at least reasonably well proportioned. Ditto the Impreza. The 2019 Corolla sedan looks great to me. The Civic sedan is a bit of an anomaly as it looks more like a fastback, but it's not bad in its own right. I don't think we're quite at a 1980s/early 1990s sweet spot for small sedans, not least because they're no longer small, but they certainly seem to be getting better.
 
There's an interesting trend happening with these lower-end sedans at the moment in that they're all starting to look quite well-proportioned. I think it's because the segment has grown so much they're now as big as regular sedans used to be so you don't get the weird scrunched-up look that they've had for the last decade or two.

An early 90s Sentra looked fine - nothing special but not out of proportion either. More recent ones haven't been so hot though, but this one to my eyes at least anyway looks close enough to the Maxima to kinda work. Stick some bigger wheels on it in a Nismo version or something and it'd look quite neat.

Similarly the latest Mazda 3 sedan works really well where the last few haven't so much. The Jetta's kinda meh but at least reasonably well proportioned. Ditto the Impreza. The 2019 Corolla sedan looks great to me. The Civic sedan is a bit of an anomaly as it looks more like a fastback, but it's not bad in its own right. I don't think we're quite at a 1980s/early 1990s sweet spot for small sedans, not least because they're no longer small, but they certainly seem to be getting better.

Yeah, as much as I'd like to rally against the growth, it has made for better-looking cars. The Civic as an example I think was very well-proportioned back in the EK days, but it took a few generations to get back there, and I'm a fan of the current sedan. You're right, it's more like a fastback, though I think it suits it well (and it's immediately identifiable at night thanks to those taillights). It's also only six inches shorter than the Accord was two decades ago, which might explain it...

This looks much better than the current Sentra. I don't have high hopes of it being a particularly sporty drive — I think the Sentra might actually be the least-accomplished in the class right now — but it should be a contender in terms of the cooking models.
 
There's an interesting trend happening with these lower-end sedans at the moment in that they're all starting to look quite well-proportioned. I think it's because the segment has grown so much they're now as big as regular sedans used to be so you don't get the weird scrunched-up look that they've had for the last decade or two.

This might be a bit off topic, but this trend really annoys me. I suppose it's been happening since compact vehicles have been around, so it's nothing new. But the new Civic Sedan, for instance, is as big or larger than every accord made before 1997.

"Our new Civic has more interior volume! ....because we made it bigger" has been essentially been the mantra every new generation of compact cars since the beginning. Well ok, fine, but isn't the Civic just a midsize car now? Then they introduce a subcompact that is the size of the original compact but want to move the entire "compact" segment into a different jurisdiction. Whatever the case, it's safe to say compact cars are not "compact" anymore.

Looking at the dimensions only tells part of the story though. Because while the 2018 Civic Sedan is dimensionally similar to the 1997 Accord Sedan, it actually looks way bigger because the massing is so heavy. Safety, rigidity, refinement, technology, etc. I get it. I blame the front offset crash test most, because it makes the structural members along the front wing/fender huge which results in these awkward joint areas near the windshield where it looks almost like a suit of armor. The remedy in this compounds the problem because you have to make the body work large enough to hide it. So in the end you end up with a large car that is puffier than it needs to be, usually on proportionally-small weedy looking wheels & tires. That any car markers succeed in making compact and subcompact cars look good is a testament to their skill.
 
Whatever the case, it's safe to say compact cars are not "compact" anymore.
The US definition is still based, I think, on the EPA's classification, which is based on interior and trunk volume. The Prius is technically a "midsize", even though it's basically Corolla/Civic-sized on the outside.

I used to be bothered about segment creep but it's fairly logical for manufacturers. If your customer bought a Civic in the 90s and liked it, it's easier to get them into another Civic, and then another, than it is getting them to upsize into an Accord, which is a psychological step up even if it would be the best path for the customer. So you keep making the Civic bigger so it grows with the customer. As long as manufacturers keep slotting a model in underneath every so often, then there's still the option of something smaller and lighter.

The bigger problem for me is that ultimately you can't reasonably make a car bigger than a certain size and still expect it to work in certain markets. The latest Civic feels... huge actually, on some UK roads where say, an old EP3 Civic feels right at home.

On your last paragraph, I'd only add that it surprises me that manufacturers haven't found a way to make cars as strong as they need to be without simply making pillars bigger and fatter and hiding people behind ever more layers of metal. My guess is the expense of doing so - but if Suzuki can make its current Swift with fairly slim pillars and make it weigh <900kg, then I do wonder why a Fiesta has relatively poor visibility and weighs >200kg more when the Swift can pass the same crash tests...

But this all may be a subject for another thread.
 
I used to be bothered about segment creep but it's fairly logical for manufacturers. If your customer bought a Civic in the 90s and liked it, it's easier to get them into another Civic, and then another, than it is getting them to upsize into an Accord, which is a psychological step up even if it would be the best path for the customer. So you keep making the Civic bigger so it grows with the customer. As long as manufacturers keep slotting a model in underneath every so often, then there's still the option of something smaller and lighter.

I don't agree with this. In the same way that the Volkswagon group would very much like to move its entry level Jetta buyers into an A4 with their next purchase, I'm betting that Honda would very much love for the Civic buyer of the 90s to be in Accord in 2005 and probably an Acura MDX in 2018 (or whatever). Keeping a buyer in the same segment isn't good for $$$ sake.
 
Keeping a buyer in the same segment isn't good for $$$ sake.
Some undoubtedly do move up, and some will trade for an Acura, and some will disappear entirely and buy a BMW or something, but think laterally here - cars like Civics sell in huge volumes, so there's likely more profit in up-selling them to a next-gen model with lots of options than there is up-selling them to a similarly-priced but lower-specced Accord. And if a buyer really likes their Civic, then they'll probably really like their next Civic too. It's a pretty easy sell.
 
That's generally not how it has worked in the US market really ever. Upsell them to the bigger car with more baked in margins no matter how much of a skinflint version they buy than the one with razor thin margins and hope they load up the option box.


Granted Honda never got in the habit of laying out cash so you'll please buy this compact car, but I'd be surprised if it was that different regardless from the domestics when both models are built in North America anyway.
 
I'm 5'6", so a fairly small person. I prefer my cars small. As long as I won't have a huge need for anything bigger, I will stay in the compact segment.
 
Some undoubtedly do move up, and some will trade for an Acura, and some will disappear entirely and buy a BMW or something, but think laterally here - cars like Civics sell in huge volumes, so there's likely more profit in up-selling them to a next-gen model with lots of options than there is up-selling them to a similarly-priced but lower-specced Accord. And if a buyer really likes their Civic, then they'll probably really like their next Civic too. It's a pretty easy sell.

In Europe, I think the idea of "smallness" actually has some utility. People buy small cars on purpose. In the US, small cars have forever been known as penalty boxes - you buy them because you are poor and have no other options, and furthermore, you buy knowing it will make you look poor. I'm not saying that's true, as I'm not really poor and I love small cars. But there certainly is a stigma. So there is a natural progression to larger as more money is involved. As the baby boomers have begun dying out, I think the bigger-is-better-forever mantra has started to dissolve a little. I think younger people see bigger as more wasteful...because it is.

I think that is definitely part of the segment creep - one automaker will release a new model that is larger than all of the rest of the competition in order to market the fact that it is, well, larger. The others naturally follow suit. Wouldn't want to be known as the manufacturer that makes smaller cars than everybody else.
 
That's generally not how it has worked in the US market really ever. Upsell them to the bigger car with more baked in margins no matter how much of a skinflint version they buy than the one with razor thin margins and hope they load up the option box.
"Razor-thin" is probably overstating it these days in that segment, but where margins are smaller ticking option boxes is a huge money-spinner (automakers love the UK car market because nobody ever goes for the stripper models - I've sat through presentations where they've explained that three-quarters or more of buyers will go for the top-spec model in a range).

I was more getting that Honda would likely make more money selling a $22k Civic with $2k of options than they would say, selling a $24k Accord - particularly as Honda sells more Civics every year than it does Accords (about 35k more in 2018 and 55k more in 2017, from the figures I can find), so I'd guess the economies of scale and actual revenue are better on the Civic than with the Accord.

But I get your point - I was mainly spitballing in my assumptions.
 
In Europe, I think the idea of "smallness" actually has some utility. People buy small cars on purpose.
True.

Big cars are too expensive for the majority of people. >> Taxes, fuel consumption, insurance, etc ...
 
Faux carbon fibre for the cupholder and a flat-bottom steering wheel. In a Sentra.

:lol:

Jabs aside, it's a good-looking interior, and I like the dual-tone, even if it will probably end up a rarity.
 
First time seeing this thread. Thank goodness it didn't read "Syleighty". Nice interior though Make it a bit higher, a tad shorter, slap a hatch on the back and it'll sell like hot caaaasweet potato fries.
 
The "same sausage different lengths" approach seems to be working well for Nissan. The Versa, Sentra, Altima, and Maxima all look well-proportioned with Nissan's corporate grille. Though they aren't class leaders in style, I can't complain about any of them. They are all a massive step up from their previous generations.
 
I'm happy to see a little more space between the front wheel and the front door. Hopefully the new Sentra will offer a driving position shaped like a human. And I'm sure it'll get great mileage with their unbearable CVT.

The Altima is comfy but only good for highway trips. The Maxima rides like a tank. The current Sentra is miserable all-round and is barely passable as a rental car. I'm not sure if it or the Corolla is worse but I hate both of them.

The Murano is pretty good and the Armada is fun to hoon, but besides that Nissan offers nothing that I'm even slightly interested in.
 
Yup, definitely like the way this looks, and that interior's a bit of a departure for Nissan. Front-wheel drive still hurts the proportions slightly (that long front overhang) but otherwise that's fairly nicely done.
 
Sure looks fascinating but will it be enough to sway people from buying other similar offerings in the market? 💡
 
It's definitely an improvement over the outgoing model, yet I still worry that it won't be enough to ditch its image of being the #1 rental car, the car that sells to people with horrible credit scores, the car that is the cheapest feeling in its class, and a car where almost all of its sales are the crappy base trim with tiny hubcaps and all.
 
It's definitely an improvement over the outgoing model, yet I still worry that it won't be enough to ditch its image of being the #1 rental car, the car that sells to people with horrible credit scores, the car that is the cheapest feeling in its class, and a car where almost all of its sales are the crappy base trim with tiny hubcaps and all.
Having driven the car it is a huge improvement over the current one. Similar step up in quality that the Versa just had over it's previous generation. I'm actually getting a Versa for a company lease car shortly and am excited to have it for a nice daily cruiser.

I'd say keep an eye on Nissan over the next couple years. Drastic improvements coming all around. They definitely need it right now.
 
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