240SX Performance Question?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Night_Drifter
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Originally posted by toyomatt84
I don't think your cousin's LS-VTEC is stock. Because it isn't able to do so stock. But, other than that, I wish you the best of luck Night on ur 240. :)
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humm i dont get it, so you guys mean that, a STOCK LSVTEC is slower than a stock 240sx, i dont know it too, i dont know much about car engine spec, thats why i needed help, but as for as i know, is it a stock LS VTEC is faster then a stock 240sx, correct me if im wrong, its just what i thought, and it'll be cool if a 240sx stock is faster then a stock ls vtec, but if the U.S 240sx KA24 motor can go around 140 MPH stock on the highway, then it be more better
 
But anywho......As for the 240SX beating a LS/VTEC....How do you know it was a LS vtec? and if it really WAS A LS vtec..then the driver of the LS VTEC is horrioble,......if a Accord EX v6 can beat a 5 speed 240SX w/ intake & ....Then it can't beat a LS VTEC....
 
Originally posted by Night_Drifter
humm i dont get it, so you guys mean that, a STOCK LSVTEC is slower than a stock 240sx, i dont know it too, i dont know much about car engine spec, thats why i needed help, but as for as i know, is it a stock LS VTEC is faster then a stock 240sx, correct me if im wrong, its just what i thought, and it'll be cool if a 240sx stock is faster then a stock ls vtec, but if the U.S 240sx KA24 motor can go around 140 MPH stock on the highway, then it be more better
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a stock LS VTEC motor only has 140 hp. the KA24DE has 155. however, on the freeway, yur 240 wont win vs a stock LS VTEC. if the LS VTEC doesnt have a fuel cutoff, then youll lose. iono about other people's cars, but my 240 has fuel cutoff up around 120. my speedometer max is at 110, but the needle was resting there for about 6 or 7 seconds and the RPM's were still climbing, then the fuel cut off. so if an LS VTEC doesnt have a speed regulator, then you'll lose.

But anywho......As for the 240SX beating a LS/VTEC....How do you know it was a LS vtec? and if it really WAS A LS vtec..then the driver of the LS VTEC is horrioble,......if a Accord EX v6 can beat a 5 speed 240SX w/ intake & ....Then it can't beat a LS VTEC....
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you DO know that an accord v6 has 200 hp right...or maybe even more, im not sure...but yeah...200hp vs 155 hp...and only about 300lbs-400lbs weight difference...you do the math...

and i know it was an LS VTEC cuz it was my friends civic coupe.
 
The accord had 200HP with a 4 speed Automatic transmission in a 3329 lb car that was FWD.........
The 240SX has 155HP a 5 speed manual transmission and weights 2807

The accord has a 45HP advantage
The 240 SHOULD have the transmission advantage, and the fact that it weights 500+ lbs less and is RWD

Not only that...The Accord would get stomped by LS VTEC vehicles..Be it in a civic, an integra, or a CRX.

SECOND
There is no such thing as a "STOCK LS-VTEC MOTOR" you ass clown. Not to mention how does a LS-VTEC engine make LESS horse power than a stock LS motor? God you got your **** screwed up man...
a LS motor...
B18B...makes 143HP...so adding a better flowing head and a valve timing system...takes away 3 HP?..You're a fool.
 
In the U.S, in wut cars of nissan have a SR20DE(T). dont some inifiniti ars have a SR20DE engine in it. this months import tuner mag just added some mods to a infiniti G20.Such as: Exhaust sys. So if u added more mods to this regular SR20DE engine...would this engine have potential to beat a LS-Vtec on the dyno?
 
ok.....The Sr20DE and DET are 2 diff engines..the DET is an engine that belongs to the Silvia and the Blue bird (JDM AWD altima I believe or maxima.. .)...The Sentra SE-R made 140HP and i forgot the TQ #'s...so the LS Vtec would beat a stock SE-R if that's what you're asking.....
 
Originally posted by Driftster
ok.....The Sr20DE and DET are 2 diff engines..the DET is an engine that belongs to the Silvia and the Blue bird (JDM AWD altima I believe or maxima.. .)...The Sentra SE-R made 140HP and i forgot the TQ #'s...so the LS Vtec would beat a stock SE-R if that's what you're asking.....
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So what about in a drag race. A fully built SR20DE( Sentra SE-R)against a LS-Vtec ( Integra)
 
we'll my friends have a 95 civic coupe Ls-Vtec motor, and he race with a SE-R, the SE-R loose 2 cars, but the SE-R was pretty fast and i dont know what the SE-R got, but its pretty damn cool with an SR20DE
 
The funny thing is...the guy says right in the article....

"I dynoed my "stock" LS/VTEC motor in my CRX on Friday, the 13th of August. I was having some tming problems and other problems somewhat related to the performance of my car. However, with an opportunity to see just how much HP I was putting out, I didn't hesitate to throw my car up onto the dyno and watch and the tuners went straight to work. I took my car down to Dynamic Autosport and had Aries (aka: "the dude") tune my car since he's a master at his sort of work. All he really did was adjust the cam sprockets the whole time to find the best settings for my car. After about 8-9 runs, and close to an hour and a half later, we were somwhat satisfied of my car outputing the highest at 154.4 HP to the wheels (using the 20% rule, that's about 185 HP at the flywheel). Torque wasn't expected to be that low - most likely the timing problem. On that same note, we also brought up the idea if the B16A ECU may have had something to do with it. Others who are running a LS ECU and VTEC controller may have different torque curves - we'll be looking into that. After trouble-shooting for many hours before and after the dyno, we've come to the conclusion that it could be a couple things, one most likely being the wiring harness and wiring (which I'll be taking out and swapping with another and rewiring up the car). My car is still retarded quite a bit and if we can bring up my ignition timing a bit, it would give me much more power. "

So slap yourself in the face....
"stock 240 "......The Honda makes almost as much power at the ground as your 240 does at the flywheel, not to mention it would be in a lighter car no matter what......So you're lying..and a LS vtec would own a stock 240.........I love nissans to death, but this blatent disregard for the facts just out of nissan love is retarded.

-edit-

hah, the guy says he even runs too lean in the high end.
 
Why would you guys compare the cars? FF FR cars are different and 240 are not used for drag racing all that much. I'm an owner of a civic HB and and 89 Nissan 240sx coup. If you go dollar for dollar honda is cheaper and it will be faster. But it will not be as reliable as nissan.
 
HAH.......This guy is hilarious....
Me being the owner of a Civic Hatchback I know that civic's will be alot more expensive to upgrade than a 240, which I am good friends with an owner of one....For one....the fact that the civic is FWD puts it down quite a bit.....Second....The long list of more powerful engines the 240 can quite..like the Rb25DET...the RB26DETT...the SR20DET...the SR22DET, none of the honda B series of H series can compare to these engines......Thirdly, when was the last time you went to a shop and did some quotes here on Honda prices Vs nissan prices.......If you havn't I sudgest you do.
 
why are you trying to make everyone look stupid? just cuz we may not be as in tune with honda motors as you are, doesnt mean we're stupid. when people say LS VTEC stock motor, that means AS THE MOTOR COMES. we're not talking about an LS VTEC being built out of a normal LS non vtec engine. so what you are saying is that the hp at the flywheel for an LS VTEC is more than the stock GS-R hp at the flywheel? cuz i know for sure the GS-R motor puts out 178hp. that would be less than 154 at the flywheel...so a stock LS VTEC motor makes more power than a GS-R? wtf? i dont think thats right...

and uh, hondas are much cheaper to make faster than a 240. look at the price of your motors, and the weight of yur car. you can get a good b16a for 1400 dollars, and yur car is like 600 lbs less (approx.). plus, aftermarket support for a civic is much much more plentiful than it is for a 240. look in a magazine. you'll see page after page of parts for sale for civics. wheres the 240 parts? and look at the prices...i HAVE looked at prices recently as i was the owner of an EK civic not too long ago until it was totaled and i bought the 240...and prices for parts for a civic are quite a few dollars less than it is for a 240...

and honestly, stop trying to make yourself look smart. all you are doing is making yourself look like a smart asshole.
 
First.....Yeah look at the prices of engines...B16A's go for 3000, and it's far from the "best engine you can get"
B18C's go for 4000, b18C Type R specs go for 5000....Those are all legitament prices...no "homie hook up" crap....But how much does a Sr20DET go for? 2500 to your door...How much does a RB25DET go for? like 3000-3500?
And you get more power and more torque from either engine....

Second...
cuz i know for sure the GS-R motor puts out 178hp. that would be less than 154 at the flywheel...so a stock LS VTEC motor makes more power than a GS-R? wtf? i dont think thats right...
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That makes no sense what so ever...
Where did those extra 24HP come from? Magical power adding axles or what?

lastly...look at this...if you're SO sure a GS-R makes the power you think it does..go ahead and look at these #'s...here's a BONE stock 98 GS-R Dual Stage throt and all


david001.jpg



-source-
http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/98obd2.html

Here's the dyno from a bone stock 96 GS-R
-source-
http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/bstock.html
Here's AFTER MODS
-source-
http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/btrustdyno.html

Now.....the LS VTEC makes more HP at the wheels than a modded GS-R, so yeah...you're talkin out your azz too.
 
wow so many replies...

first of all i just want to say something on behalf of honda people...
i once drove an acura integra LS/VTEC power...
but then i sold it... do you know why?

IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HATED IT!!!
the car was fairly quick on the straigthaways... 182 fwhp mildly built LS/VTEC
but the car wont turn!!!
i autocross more than i drag racing...
IMO.. drag racing is just about money.. the more money you have.. the faster the car

but in autocross... the more skill YOU have as a driver.. the faster YOU are..
and let me tell you something... front wheel drive + big horsepower = massive understeer

so i sold the integra
bought a 240sx 1.5 years ago.. and now.. with only 132 rwhp.. my autocross time improved a lot better! 2-5 seconds faster than any hondas/acuras in the autocross event

as for the 240sx
KA24DE was supposed to be turbocharged.. but i dont know why the engineers decided to NOT put a turbo on the motor..
KA24DE
forged rods, oil squirters, cast iron block.. and the way the block and the head was designed... fits perfectly into a turbocharged motor category.. HOWEVER, the pistons are like potatos..
running more than 10psi required some heavy tunings and 15psi is the limit for stock ka block...
the problem with KA-T blowin up is because of running too lean (bad tuning).. or running too much boost (above 15psi)


155hp at the crank... with only 6 psi of boost.. 200+rwhp can be easily achieved... plus.. it will be a torque monster

as for SR20DET, its a high revving turbocharged motor
aluminum block, aluminum heads
the stock block can put out 400-500hp with the right tunings
its basically a bulletproof motor.. however.. its not a foolproof motor...

theres a lot more interesting facts but i dont feel like explaining all of them

go here for more info and search

www.freshalloy.com
www.zilvia.net
www.nissaninfiniticlub.com
www.240sx.org

late
 
ok.....why couldn't the car turn? that makes no sense what so ever......
Now as for why the KA24DE wasn't turbocharged....I don't know..maybe because it was a KA24DE which was made for a small pickup that shouldn't really be towing much?............Maybe if japan planed on the KA24DE being put into the silvia as apposed to the Sr20DEt..they would have turbocharged it..
 
GSR motors are not 4000, more like $3200 for a JDM, shipped to your door. B16a's are no where near that cost, 2grand tops.

Also 154.4whp isn't 185 at the wheels. IF FWDs lost 20% through the driftrain then it would be around 193hp at the flywheel... too bad they only lose 12-14%, so you'd be getting 180bhp at most.

Also you want to use the ECU with the head that you have. If you have a b18c1 head.. get a GSR ECU, ITR head...ITR ECU. Dont use a non-vtec ecu with a ls/vtec setup, with that you're bound to blow something up.

Just thought I give my .02

ps driftster, good luck on your car... sounds like you're off to a good start.
 
Originally posted by Driftster
...So slap yourself in the face....
"stock 240 "......The Honda makes almost as much power at the ground as your 240 does at the flywheel, not to mention it would be in a lighter car no matter what......So you're lying..and a LS vtec would own a stock 240.........I love nissans to death, but this blatent disregard for the facts just out of nissan love is retarded.

-edit-

hah, the guy says he even runs too lean in the high end.
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe the Civic has 300 lbs less overall weight then the 240SX, but let us not forget that when taking off the line in any kind of race, whether it be drag or autocross, the car shows some sort of weight transfer. When driving a Front wheel Drive car, like the Civic, you lose overall performance, because the wheels receive less traction, and, if you want me to get physical on you, the directed force of the vehicle has moved from straight forward to a slight angle upwards, which means you lose force and in turn power. Now, when driving a Rear wheel Drive, the force never changes direction, it justs shifts initial position to the rear wheels, which means you retain your overall power. Thus, just straight facts the two would be close in a race, but after each shift of the Civic's gears the 240 would catch it, tho the Civic would start off in the lead against the 240.

Get your facts straight before you talk smack.
 
Originally posted by Driftster
ok.....why couldn't the car turn? that makes no sense what so ever......
Now as for why the KA24DE wasn't turbocharged....I don't know..maybe because it was a KA24DE which was made for a small pickup that shouldn't really be towing much?............Maybe if japan planed on the KA24DE being put into the silvia as apposed to the Sr20DEt..they would have turbocharged it..
Click to expand...


thats why im giving you all of this explanations...
to keep you OPEN MINDED

well let me introduce myself real quick
im a senior majoring in mechanical engineering major
i've been into cars since i was 15 years old
i've been autocrossing for 3 years
i've never gone to a shop to fix my car.. i always fix my car by myself with some help from friends in my friend's garage
i knew my integra inside and out
i know my 240sx inside and out

so back to the discussion...

acura integra, weight distribution 60/40 + front wheel drive
240sx, weight distribution 53/47 + rear wheel drive
you pick with one handles better

i drove both at the local autocross, i pick 240sx anyday


straights:
integra LS/VTEC 180fwhp
stock 240sx 140 rwhp (155 crank)


yes, most people refer KA as a truck motor.
why? because it makes more torque

have you pull apart a KA motor? i guess not
turbocharged motor caracteristics:
oil squirters
forged piston rods
one-piece block girdle
KA has all of this features
the only thing it needs is just a better flowing head and stronger pistons


as for my integra wont turn and all that..
read this
http://www.corollaperformance.com/TechInfo/RWD.html


you need to know the facts and you need to learn to accept them!
if something doesnt seems to make sense to you
SEARCH!!
i am sure that every words that i say can be backed up with someother statements that you can find through GOOGLE.COM

im out
 
Originally posted by toyomatt84
Ok, maybe the Civic has 300 lbs less overall weight then the 240SX, but let us not forget that when taking off the line in any kind of race, whether it be drag or autocross, the car shows some sort of weight transfer. When driving a Front wheel Drive car, like the Civic, you lose overall performance, because the wheels receive less traction, and, if you want me to get physical on you, the directed force of the vehicle has moved from straight forward to a slight angle upwards, which means you lose force and in turn power. Now, when driving a Rear wheel Drive, the force never changes direction, it justs shifts initial position to the rear wheels, which means you retain your overall power. Thus, just straight facts the two would be close in a race, but after each shift of the Civic's gears the 240 would catch it, tho the Civic would start off in the lead against the 240.

Get your facts straight before you talk smack.
Click to expand...

What you say is right, for a high horsepower car. The 240sx stock doesn't make enough power to take full advantage of the weight transfer, I have to agree with Driftster even though he wasnt that nice about it.

A 'stock' ls/vtec setup in a CRX would take a 240sx. I drive a non-turbo eclipse (140hp, 131tq, 2822lbs) and from a stop to maybe 80-90mph, Im right with a 240sx and I have more of a weight transfer problem than his CRX.

One last thing that hurts the 240sx is the stock gearing. The gearing is long, about the same as a d16 transmission with a Civic. My friend can run his 240sx to nearly 70mph in 2nd, my car wont make 60mph, and another friends Civic will hit almost 65mph.

I dont know what kind of transmission Driftster is using, but anything other than a LS is guarantee'd to have shorter gears than the 240sx meaning that the 240sx would lose ground after shifts.
 
Lol..ok guy.....You autocross all the time, then you should know that for road racing...HP is desired not torque...TQ makes the car alot less driveable, which is another one of the reasons why Supra's used 3sgte's instead of 2jz-gte's in road races......Second You obviously read nothing I said...you're right..maybe the KA24DE is suited for turbo...your point is? It's still an engine...from a pickup truck, not a performance car.... If Nissan WANTED to turbo a pickup they would have...but they didn't, you ever wonder why? Because they have the Sr20DET and CA18DET and the RB series.....They could have just as easily made the Senta SE-R turbo..but they didn't....
No.....As you lead to with the article....The article states FWD cars tend to have higher moments of intertia....now if the car wasn't so biased towards the front the wheels would have absolutly no chance in cornering at all......As for the whole "your car doesn't corner because it's FWD"...that's a complete load of crap, because FWD cars can handle with the best of them and you can't deny that.

Now, the 240SX makes 135 at the wheels.....
Here's a dyno sheet of a STOCK KA24DE DOHC engine being dyno'd
stock98-240sxdyno.jpg

Here's the source

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsundyno.htm

4 up from the 4cyl turbo catagory...

And I'd like to know who did your LS/VTEC swap....and where you got it dyno'd and where's your proof of the dyno
 
Here's the LS-VTEC's quarter mile: (Look at the left column)
Here ya GO

Here's the 240SX's quarter mile: (Look at the left column)
Here ya GO

Pretty damn close, especially since the Civic is heavily modified in comparison to the 240.
 
OK now, I must regress.

What did this argument solve? Nothing.
If you race and win, big deal, you win.
If you race and lose, big deal, you lose.
In the long run it don't mean smack.
Just as long as you got something you wanted out of it, you learned something, and had some fun doing it.

God I hate arguments, all they do is piss people off.


EDIT: I could argue more, but its pointless, you'll still believe the same thing no matter what I say. And that's the FACTS.
 
In track times, 1.7sec difference is pretty close, but in a quarter mile race... that civic would have spanked the 240sx. Also that Civic isn't heavily modified, basic ls/vtec with a chipped ecu.

The 15.9sec quarter that the 240sx is pretty good for a stock one, but it's about what a bolt-on d16 civic would run.
 
Well the civic owner is an idiot and a liar...because he's making less than stock HP #'s with alot of crappy mods... He put a B16A2 transmission in his car.....yet he says it is LSD equipped....B16A2's don have Lsd's in their tranny...and why would he put the A2 transmission on there if he plans on force inducting it...Short gears + B18A1 = retarded...And we also don't know if he did the head swap himself..which isn't as easy as people think it is to get right.....

as for the 240sx..he says right off the bat he has a new LSD......soooo..
 

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