281 hp K20a2-powered Civic (from Octane thread)

[Horde_R35]

More octane means a more stable fuel - one less prone to exploding, basically. If you run fuel with too high an octane for your engine to burn, you'll be left with a lot of unburned fuel and susceptible to any issues associated with running rich.

You should always run the lowest octane (least stable) fuel your engine can use without knock.

Exactly:tup:! My tuned K20 has 0 knocks with 109 octane! I think its 109 (US measure) coz the SUNOCO is imported from the US... Does anyone know for sure? I know the best we have here in Europe is 98 octane, wich is 93 in the US!

EDIT: I was trying to find the "octane converter" but dont remember where!

 

[Famine]

Exactly:tup:! My tuned K20 has 0 knocks with 109 octane!

And that's the lowest octane fuel you can use without knock? I can't even begin to imagine that a naturally-aspirated engine at 10:1 could possibly require a 109RON fuel... some friends have a race built small block 572 (12:1) which pushes 850hp on a 50:50 mix of 95RON and AvGas (102RON)...

 

[Horde_R35]

And that's the lowest octane fuel you can use without knock? I can't even begin to imagine that a naturally-aspirated engine at 10:1 could possibly require a 109RON fuel... some friends have a race built small block 572 (12:1) which pushes 850hp on a 50:50 mix of 95RON and AvGas (102RON)...

No mate! I had 0 knocks with 98 octane and 0 knocks with 109! Gained around 15HP with the SUNOCO fuel wich is pretty good for an NA! I have a friend with a civic turbo with a big block and he has 850HP he also uses the same fuel i have ! I use it coz it has several positive points like lowering the temperature in the combustion chamber (i hope you understand my english)!

 

[Famine]

No mate! I had 0 knocks with 98 octane and 0 knocks with 109! Gained around 15HP with the SUNOCO fuel wich is pretty good for an NA!

You should always run the lowest octane (least stable) fuel your engine can use without knock.

If 98RON is the lowest you can go without knock, 98RON is what you should be using.

The only reason you're "gaining" power is because Sunoco 109RON has bloody ethanol (more ethanol = more oxygen = more fuel burned = more power) in it. You don't require 109RON fuel and you're pissing money up against a wall unnecessarily. It's like a cold air feed (a real one), except that'd cost you as much to buy and install to use forever as one tankful of Sunoco 109.

I have a friend with a civic turbo with a big block and he has 850HP he also uses the same fuel i have

High compression (through forced induction) means he needs a more knock-resistant fuel. You don't.

Incidentally, my brother also has a K20 in his car. He runs it on Tesco 99RON and gets 60hp more than you do, at a cost of one third what you're paying.

 

[Horde_R35]

I have 281HP in a stock internals is pretty damn good! The best experts in the US told me so! 281HP in a EG6 with 850kg is superfast at the track! Do the maths to the power/wheight ratio:idea:! Next stage will be a K26 all motor wich will have a around 13 compression, 89.5 pistons with a 105 crankshaft wich will generate something like 370WHP !

 

[Famine]

I have 281HP in a stock internals is pretty damn good!

281hp now? That's somewhat convenient after the discussion we had last April where I pointed out you'd need 100hp over stock to reach the 174mph you were claiming then.

its NA engine with cams and lots of things i dont know how to discribe in english LOL!

Famine an EP3 civic (1270kg) with 200hp can do 158mph and you believe the truth in it. But you cant believe that an EG9 VTI civic (1120kg) with less 150kg and (the minor changes - chip, complete exaust system, filters) probably more 20hp, just cant?? lol

I notice you've now changed the cams back for stock ones (stock internals, you said) and yet gained 61hp in 8 months. Assuming the 109RON accounts for 15hp like you say, what have you done for the other 46hp?

Of course, this still doesn't alter the fact that you should run the lowest RON fuel you can which doesn't knock - and you get no knock at 98RON but are running 109RON.


(for reference I've just passed the contents of this thread on to several friends of mine, including one who builds and rebuilds engines professionally. He just wet himself laughing)

 

[Horde_R35]

I meant stock block internals. I have many professional friends who laugh on the things you guys post here too!

 

[Duke]

I have 281HP in a stock internals is pretty damn good! The best experts in the US told me so! 281HP in a EG6 with 850kg is superfast at the track! Do the maths to the power/wheight ratio:idea:! Next stage will be a K26 all motor wich will have a around 13 compression, 89.5 pistons with a 105 crankshaft wich will generate something like 370WHP !

I'm thinking we need to see some proof of these claims.

 

[Horde_R35]

I'm thinking we need to see some proof of these claims.

No worries! I have to look where ive put the Dino test paper, and after that have to go to a friends house to scan it, because i dont have one (never needed it)! In a few days i think i can manage that!

I just dont understand and nerver did, why people are so suspicious around here! Why do people begin with suspects in the 1st place is a strange thing to me! After i post the Dino run, i bet someone will say its from a friend or something like that! If i said i had a porche 911 turbo and showed you a pic of me inside the car will it be valid?! Do you understand where im getting at? No one can really proof anything at a forum!



EDIT: Famine where did i lie about the HP of my car?!

Feb 08 2009, 7:36 PM #2484

Azuremen
Want! I've always wanted some Honda hatch and put a K series in it, secretly, deep down. Sharp looking EG-6 for sure.

Hehe tnx m8! it has 281HP with (probably) less then 900kg ! Has carbon hood, the front doors interior in also, the back (trunk??) and rear spoiler in carbon also! No seats at the back and only 2 buddy club seats in carbon! Days ago in a track day, passed a porche carrera 4S from the outside line

 

[Famine]

No worries! I have to look where ive put the Dino test paper, and after that have to go to a friends house to scan it, because i dont have one (never needed it)! In a few days i think i can manage that!

I just dont understand and nerver did, why people are so suspicious around here! Why do people begin with suspects in the 1st place is a strange thing to me! After i post the Dino run, i bet someone will say its from a friend or something like that! If i said i had a porche 911 turbo and showed you a pic of me inside the car will it be valid?! Do you understand where im getting at? No one can really proof anything at a forum!

You could go a long way towards it by explaining all the engine modifications that allow 281hp from a K20 with the stock block.

Start us off with... ohhh... let's say the injectors.

EDIT: Famine where did i lie about the HP of my car?!

I don't recall saying you lied.

 

[Scaff]

Hehe tnx m8!

The AUP is quite clear on Text-speak being banned here at GT Planet, please do not do this again or it will result in an infraction being issued.

On the more general question of why we ask for proof, quite simple, people lie on the internet. We have had many, many issue with members making claims about cars they do not own, or work on cars that has not been done.

This again is covered in the AUP, and as such should someone make a claim that seems to be a bit unusual, then we ask for proof.

If the member in question is being honest, then providing proof will never be a problem. If they can't, well then that takes things to a whole new level.

In a nutshell, GT Planet operates to a higher standard to most of the rest of the web. The AUP and our enforcement of it ensures this and the staff and members here take that very seriously.


Scaff

 

[Horde_R35]

Scaff thanks for the heads up of something that happened one year ago! The GTP rules dont apply to everyone! Everyone calls names to each other with uge arguments and most of the times no one says anything! A moderator even called me stupid indirectly weeks ago... Rules huh?!

Famine yes you were implying that i didnt had the 281hp before! How conviniente!! Remember? I could describe all the things i have in the engine bay, but if your an expert why dont you tell me, or you can ask your professional friend! The pictures are right there.


Ive posted some picks before but here it goes again! Taken from my cellphone because i broke my digital camera and i really dont need one! One more thing! No one here has to say something where or how i spend my money or how much i have! Got better things where to spend money before i buy a digital camera, and i could name few hundreds! If i bye 109 octane fuel thats because i can.

 

[Giancarlo]

Dude, Famine likes to bust people's balls.

Just keep the thread on topic, please.

 

[Famine]

The GTP rules dont apply to everyone!

Yes they do.

Everyone calls names to each other with uge arguments and most of the times no one says anything!

No they don't.

A moderator even called me stupid indirectly weeks ago...

No they didn't.

Famine yes you were implying that i didnt had the 281hp before! How conviniente!! Remember? I could describe all the things i have in the engine bay, but if your an expert why dont you tell me, or you can ask your professional friend! The pictures are right there.

Now that is convenient. You could say what work you've had done to get the power you claim from the engine, but you'd rather have me tell you what I think you've had done.

All I was after was the model of injectors you use.

If i bye 109 octane fuel thats because i can.

Regardless of the fact you don't need it, that it decays in the tank so you can only put in exactly what you need at any one time and are causing incredible internal damage by running it. As I said before, a willy-waving exercise.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff thanks for the heads up of something that happened one year ago! The GTP rules dont apply to everyone! Everyone calls names to each other with uge arguments and most of the times no one says anything! A moderator even called me stupid indirectly weeks ago... Rules huh?!

I gave you a heads up on something that happened yesterday, when you used Text speak in a post, which is a direct AUP breach. However as its such an issue for you, in future I will not given you a polite heads-up in thread, rather I will head straight for an infraction.

I would also love to know how you know exactly how the AUP is enforced and who has been given warnings and/or infractions?

Simply put the only people who know this are the staff and the member involved, as such I can can assure you that the AUP is applied to every member, regardless of how long they have been here, who they know or even premium membership. A quick visit to the banned user log would clearly show this.

Now if the point of your little tirade is to state that as you believe the rules are not enforced then you can ignore them, then think again.

It would seem that a polite heads-up has done nothing more that cause a cynical and dismissive reply from yourself, which to be honest is not the action we would expect to see from a member. My post was not a prompt for you to debate the issue, rather an instruction. Its simple, follow the AUP or leave, no debate or discussion.


Scaff

 

[Horde_R35]

I gave you a heads up on something that happened yesterday, when you used Text speak in a post, which is a direct AUP breach. However as its such an issue for you, in future I will not given you a polite heads-up in thread, rather I will head straight for an infraction.

I would also love to know how you know exactly how the AUP is enforced and who has been given warnings and/or infractions?

Simply put the only people who know this are the staff and the member involved, as such I can can assure you that the AUP is applied to every member, regardless of how long they have been here, who they know or even premium membership. A quick visit to the banned user log would clearly show this.

Now if the point of your little tirade is to state that as you believe the rules are not enforced then you can ignore them, then think again.

It would seem that a polite heads-up has done nothing more that cause a cynical and dismissive reply from yourself, which to be honest is not the action we would expect to see from a member. My post was not a prompt for you to debate the issue, rather an instruction. Its simple, follow the AUP or leave, no debate or discussion.


Scaff

Did i say i wasnt or didnt follow the rules? Where?
Issue... is what you are doing mate not me, i just copy pasted something writen one year ago... If you had to warn me about something, you simply shoud have done it one year ago, when it was apropriate at the time not now... fine!

Famine: RC 400cc injectores. I thought someone were professionals in analising engines and calculating horse power! You just answered what i thought you would!

Its funny how you people are always at everytime twisting others phrases and im sorry, but i believe thats arrogant! So dont be suprised when i talk to you in the same way!

Ill post the Dino run soon.


With no further arguments, Tiago

 

[Famine]

RC 400cc injectores.

RC injectors are not rated for use with high-alcohol content race fuels - they even say this on their own website. 109RON will melt them. Heh, it's almost like I deliberately asked you for that specific component in order to trip you up or something - though I do recall mentioning to you already that you're causing some quite catastrophic engine damage by running an unnecessarily high octane fuel.

Okay. What size valves and pistons are you using? What's the compression ratio - still stock at 11.5/11.7 or have you increased it (and if so, how have you achieved it)?

 

[Horde_R35]

RC injectors are not rated for use with high-alcohol content race fuels - they even say this on their own website. 109RON will melt them. Heh, it's almost like I deliberately asked you for that specific component in order to trip you up or something - though I do recall mentioning to you already that you're causing some quite catastrophic engine damage by running an unnecessarily high octane fuel.

Okay. What size valves and pistons are you using? What's the compression ratio - still stock at 11.5/11.7 or have you increased it (and if so, how have you achieved it)?

If so it didnt melt mine. And no engine problems to date. Stock pistons and stock valves (air and exaust)! My engine compression is 11.0:1 and not 11.5 or 11.7. Another "trap" i suppose... Im corrently using 109 but only for the drag racing! For the track i use 98 in any BP or GALP station, wich is 93 at the US!

 

[Famine]

If so it didnt melt mine. And no engine problems to date. Stock pistons and stock valves (air and exaust)! My engine compression is 11.0:1 and not 11.5 or 11.7.

Aaaand here we hit the buffers quite hard (if we hadn't already).

You're saying that an engine which runs 197hp as standard is now running 281hp with stock pistons, stock valves and stock compression with a chip, an air intake, a camshaft, some 109RON fuel and some 400cc injectors? I just want to be completely clear on this point - would you say that's an accurate summary?

 

[mafia_boy]

Famine, only the newest K20's (the K20Z4 to be exact out of the FN2 CTR) has a compression ratio of 11.7:1....some others are 11:1 (like the Acura RSX Type-S & DC5 ITR), but quite a few of them (like Civic Si's & Acura RSX's) have a CR that's around the 9.6:1 to 9.8:1 range. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lower compression motor....it would give a lot more room to play with when it comes to raising the CR but it does have a lot less power stock than the DC5R and Type-S.

*added bit* Notice I got tree'd after hitting post and seeing you two continue your banter.....

But I will have to agree with you on this, it's a bit silly to run 109 in anything that's not pumping 600hp+@wheels. But one thing isn't adding up for me at the moment. I'm looking at Sunoco's website (www.sunocoinc.com), and anything they have that's over 110 Octane HAS lead in it, and the highest unleaded one I can find through their own website is 104 Octane from their 260GT PLUS fuel.

What exactly is your type of Sunoco fuel horde_r35 if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Famine]

Famine, only the newest K20's (the K20Z4 to be exact out of the FN2 CTR) has a compression ratio of 11.7:1....some others are 11:1 (like the Acura RSX Type-S & DC5 ITR), but quite a few of them (like Civic Si's & Acura RSX's) have a CR that's around the 9.6:1 to 9.8:1 range. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lower compression motor....it would give a lot more room to play with when it comes to raising the CR but it does have a lot less power stock than the DC5R and Type-S.

I was going for benefit of doubt - the 11.5/11.7 K20s at least push out over 200hp to start with (though not much more). 11.0:1 and still stock compression, pistons and valves? Fill in the blanks yourself.

 

[Horde_R35]

Aaaand here we hit the buffers quite hard (if we hadn't already).

You're saying that an engine which runs 197hp as standard is now running 281hp with stock pistons, stock valves and stock compression with a chip, an air intake, a camshaft, some 109RON fuel and some 400cc injectors? I just want to be completely clear on this point - would you say that's an accurate summary?

No i have a few more tricks there, has you expert can see ! You dont know whats there am i right? Tell me what do you see and let all the people know your an expert! But dont take to long coz i will begin to think your asking your profesional friend! A ship?! Do you mean the Kpro ECU? A camshaft?! I thought my engine was DOCH! You trapped yourself mate!

Ill folllow Giancarlo advice and stay on topic from now on Famine. Your the one that should inforce the "stay on topic" issue , but ill give the example!

 

[mafia_boy]

I was going for benefit of doubt - the 11.5/11.7 K20s at least push out over 200hp to start with (though not much more). 11.0:1 and still stock compression, pistons and valves? Fill in the blanks yourself.

Some of the K20's produce 225hp, not the just over 200hp. Remember, the ECU's are detuned for the Euro, US & Australian markets. So I can see the following being done so I'll accept the challenge and try to fill in the blanks:
ECU re-program = 20-25hp
Pod Filter (and maybe a CAI) = 5hp
4-1 extractors = 10hp
2.25" or 2.5" exhaust (almost race type exhaust!) = 10hp
Port matching the manifolds = 5hp
Cams + Cam Gears (depending on wildness) = 10-30hp

Total = between 60-85hp, depending on how good the tuner is.

I know with engines such as the 1JZ, even the stock cams can be adjusted with a cam gear to produce an extra 10-15Kw (14-20hp) so it's not unfeasible.

HORDE, you still haven't answered my question so I'll caps it this time......WHAT TYPE OF SUNOCO FUEL ARE YOU USING???

 

[Famine]

Some of the K20's produce 225hp, not the just over 200hp

225hp is "just over" 200hp. The H22 in the car on my drive puts out "just over" 200hp (212). Of course some of the K20s put out a lot more than that - the one in the back of my brother's car, for example, which manages 245hp and is the same engine as horde_r35's.

No i have a few more tricks there, has you expert can see ! You dont know whats there am i right? Tell me what do you see and let all the people know your an expert! But dont take to long coz i will begin to think your asking your profesional friend!

Ah-ah, that's not how it works. YOU made the claim, YOU back it up - or stop making it. I'm not going to tell you what's on your car to get you the power you're claiming - you tell me. And you've already failed at the first hurdle by claiming to run injectors which will not flow the fuel you're also claiming to use.

A ship?! Do you mean the Kpro ECU?

Any ECU modifications - piggyback or standalone - are colloquially referred to as "a chip".

A camshaft?! I thought my engine was DOCH! You trapped yourself mate!

Nnnnot really. Unless you want to tell me that the two camshafts are different - which would kinda deny the "double" part of DOHC - then you have one camshaft twice.

So please. If my assessment was not accurate, fill in the gaps. Or make your claim elsewhere.

Ill folllow Giancarlo advice and stay on topic from now on Famine. Your the one that should inforce the "stay on topic" issue , but ill give the example!

I'm currently enforcing the "not posting information you know to be untrue" issue. Your example ought to be to prove it or stop posting it. I'm happy either way, though the latter would be an act of self-condemnation.

Personally I find subjects like this really tiresome - so I dread to think what other people looking in think of them. But then they wouldn't happen if people who posted outlandish claims didn't avoid all efforts to prove them. And remember, you have done this once before already...

 

[Scaff]

Did i say i wasnt or didnt follow the rules? Where?
Issue... is what you are doing mate not me, i just copy pasted something writen one year ago... If you had to warn me about something, you simply shoud have done it one year ago, when it was apropriate at the time not now... fine!

Its in your post of yesterday, its not in a quote box, nor is it linked to a a thread of any type.

Given that I am not psychic that makes it a current post.

Its also quite clear from your comments that you believe the rule are applied selectively, my posts have been a reminder that this is both incorrect and that the rules apply to all.

You would also do well to re-read my post, as I did not say that you were going to ignore the rules, I simply clarified what would happen if you hold that belief.

And to be clear, this....

But dont take to long coz i will begin to think your asking your profesional friend!

...is Text speak, banned by the AUP. So it would seem I don't need to claim that you said you would break the AUP, your own actions make it quite clear that you already are.


Scaff

 

[Horde_R35]

Some of the K20's produce 225hp, not the just over 200hp. Remember, the ECU's are detuned for the Euro, US & Australian markets. So I can see the following being done so I'll accept the challenge and try to fill in the blanks:
ECU re-program = 20-25hp
Pod Filter (and maybe a CAI) = 5hp
4-1 extractors = 10hp
2.25" or 2.5" exhaust (almost race type exhaust!) = 10hp
Port matching the manifolds = 5hp
Cams + Cam Gears (depending on wildness) = 10-30hp

Total = between 60-85hp, depending on how good the tuner is.

I know with engines such as the 1JZ, even the stock cams can be adjusted with a cam gear to produce an extra 10-15Kw (14-20hp) so it's not unfeasible.

HORDE, you still haven't answered my question so I'll caps it this time......WHAT TYPE OF SUNOCO FUEL ARE YOU USING???

Correct mate! We have a winner Famine 60-85hp? But Famines brother only has 245hp!

To answer your question :http://www.aaoil.co.uk/racing-Sunoco-GT-PLUS

Scaff the date is right there, but yes i should have quote or link it!

 

[Famine]

Correct mate! We have a winner Famine

I'd like a straight yes/no for a change please. Is this the sum total of the modifications to the car you're claiming 281hp for?

60-85hp? But Famines brother only has 245hp!

You missed the bit where I said "the one in the back of my brother's car" then? You'll need a lot more than fiction and a lot less than 850kg if you want to beat that down the strip. And to think, he runs 98RON on track and road.

 

[Scaff]

Correct mate! We have a winner Famine 60-85hp? But Famines brother only has 245hp!

You might want to be careful here, because I know exactly what that 245bhp is in, and your not going to beat it with what you claim you have.

Scaff the date is right there, but yes i should have quote or link it!

A date, on its own in a post doesn't mean anything, so yes you should have quoted it, and then you should have removed the text speak.

Just as from this post on, if you use text speak again, an infraction will follow it.


Scaff

 

[Scaff]

Scaff how many examples of text issues do you want me to point in this thread? And i didnt see any of you pay attention to it! You must have sent a private messege... i see now!

How many times do I have to point this out to you.

First, worry about your own behaviour and ensure that you follow the AUP. If you have an issue with another members posts then use the report button. I would however focus on your own posts first and fore-most.

Second, you have no idea of my (or for that matter any of the staff's) communication with members regarding the AUP.

Third, did you miss the part about this not being open for debate.

Finally, you are not a member of staff so you have no idea at all about these matters and how the are handled. So trying to be 'smart' about it will do you no favours at all.

You will drop this subject now, failure to do will see an infraction issued. This is not a request, its an instruction.


Scaff

 

[Horde_R35]

Nah, you're not misled....it is 109RON. I think that they are using the knock index and calling them it's octane ratings on the first chart I showed. It's technically correct because it's RON+MON/2....so in your case, 109+99 / 2 = 208/2 = 104.

Have you checked out Elf Racing fuels however?? They would be a lot cheaper in your neck of the woods. Plus you have a local distributor there in CESPA.

Thank you for the Elf tip mate ill be sure to look where the store is:tup:! Resuming im glad im not the only one reading these posts:idea:!

EDIT: A few posts ago you only missed the BDL of 70mm and the RBC manifold! I dont like to post the things i have for the simple reason of eventualy someone can copy exactly the same things i have and obtain the same horse power i have very easilly! Because ive spend too many days researching and making a few extra coins, and extra business of selling and buying, to obtain my specifications. Hard work, headaches and lots of euros! Just sold my engine a few days ago to make an upgrade!