$30k, 30+mpg, luxury - possible?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1X83Z
  • 145 comments
  • 7,705 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
M5Power
A diesel Golf with some options would probably meet these criteria...
Click to expand...
So, why did you scoff at the Jetta TDI? A Golf/Rabbit is barely more than a Jetta with a hatchback.

And unfortunately the US is not getting a TDI Golf/Rabbit MkV anytime soon.
 
M5Power
£21,830 = $33,300 USD
Click to expand...

That'd be a new, Mk4 TDCi, not an 18 month old Mk3 ST TDCi. You did specify new or used - and I can throw literally dozens of sub-£10k ST TDCis at you.
 
Stotty
OK, no diesels then... though I'm sure a 2nd hand 530d would be sub £20K in the UK.
Click to expand...

We're supposed to be getting a few different diesel models this year:

- Honda Accord Diesel: Would easily fit the criteria, but you'll have to watch the options

- BMW 330d: I think its still due in 2009, but my guess is that its going to be well over the $30K price tag

- Cadillac CTS Diesel: Its been in development, but I have no idea if it will actually materialize in the US

Toyota was supposed to start playing with diesel power soon, but I have no idea what has happened with that. Strangely, it appears as though the TDI option box disappeared from the VW Passat lineup as well, which is a disappointment. I believe Audi was working on a diesel A4, but as of now, it is vaporware.

I'm a big fan of the Fusion, personally, and I'm very eager to see the new cars in person. Doug does make a good point, it will be difficult to get one for MSRP. After all, it will be the most fuel-efficent mid size sedan on the market when it debuts, and my guess is that they won't have a hard time selling them. If the Escape Hybrid can be any measurement of how well the Fusion will do, they won't be able to build enough of them.

Otherwise, TVB, FoolKiller and I seem to be on the same page. For the price, the Jetta TDI is hard to beat, offering pretty damn good build quality, excellent fuel mileage, and the infamous European ride/handling tradeoff that many of us love. For $21K, its an absolute steal. Thing is, they're nearly impossible to find, and furthermore, even more difficult to find for MSRP. I seem to recall the local VW dealer selling them for $5-7K over sticker, and they still had a waiting list.
 
YSSMAN
Thing is, they're nearly impossible to find, and furthermore, even more difficult to find for MSRP. I seem to recall the local VW dealer selling them for $5-7K over sticker, and they still had a waiting list.
Click to expand...
I blame that couple for getting over 58 mpg in one on their cross-country trip. I think they said they averaged $0.07 a mile. And then testing is showing it has better efficiency than a Prius. I'm sure the Jetta TDI Cup averaging 28mpg also helped draw attention to them. VW is claiming they only used two tanks of fuel per car for the entire eight race season.

Yes, I have been paying attention to this car. I'll probably get one used after I get tired of my Rabbit, or my wife determines I need four doors when we have children.
 
The 128i is 28k and gets 28MPG highway.

You really need the 120d.
 
FoolKiller
So, why did you scoff at the Jetta TDI? A Golf/Rabbit is barely more than a Jetta with a hatchback.

And unfortunately the US is not getting a TDI Golf/Rabbit MkV anytime soon.
Click to expand...

because they don't QUITE meet the criteria.

Oh well. So much for the luxurious miserly car. I suppose one can always wait for the GS450h to drop into the price range, though it doesn't have 30mpg. Why is there no ES350 hybrid??? They could use the 4cyl from the Camry (fun fact: there has never been a 4cyl Lexus) and make a killing
 
BMW H7 but not $30,000...

Toyota Camry LE with every feature? I don't know if it is luxurious but it probably gets 30 MPG...
 
You'll laugh, I'm sure, but my Civic gets around 27mpg combined, and I know it would do 32-ish or more with just highway driving. With that, you get 200hp, 8000rpm (8500 if you want to push it), a six speed, limited slip, and the option of being a little more civilian with the sedan. If you went with the navigation package you'd spend maybe $25k. There's no leather, but I personally hate leather interiors and think that its odd to have it on sport seats to begin with.
 
The local gas station owners are a bunch of jerks about diesel, though. They finally upgraded their stations to include it, but they charge like 80 cents over average. My nearest chevron wants $2.89 for diesel and $2.10 for premium. That's reason enough for hybrid, diesel-hating conspiracy.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure why they charge so much for diesel here in the US, but I wish they'd stop it. I'm starting to think that may be the reason why we don't get many diesels here. Apart from maybe the fact when people think of diesel here they think of big rigs and trucks.
 
bergauk
I'm not sure why they charge so much for diesel here in the US, but I wish they'd stop it. I'm starting to think that may be the reason why we don't get many diesels here. Apart from maybe the fact when people think of diesel here they think of big rigs and trucks.
Click to expand...

Can you blame 'em though, when 98% of our diesels are just trucks & big rigs to begin with?
 
Omnis
The local gas station owners are a bunch of jerks about diesel, though. They finally upgraded their stations to include it, but they charge like 80 cents over average. My nearest chevron wants $2.89 for diesel and $2.10 for regular. That's reason enough for hybrid, diesel-hating conspiracy.
Click to expand...

HOLY ****!!! I paid $1.40 for regular yesterday. Same basic deal in ATL. $2.10?!?
 
M5Power
HOLY ****!!! I paid $1.40 for regular yesterday. Same basic deal in ATL. $2.10?!?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant premium, not regular. Went back and changed that. Regular around here is anywhere from 1.50-1.70.

Anyway, 4 miles away, Hess was selling diesel at like $2.19.
 
After a series of oil price drops, petrol (basic 95RON - equivalent to about 91 Octane in the US) has fallen to about 82p/litre here (about $4.65 per US gallon). You aren't likely to find diesel for less than 99p/litre (about $5.62 per US gallon).

Also, I wouldn't touch a diesel car with a pair of stolen hands.
 
Diesel cars aren't fun - they're a tool for a chore and driving should never be a chore.

One look at a rush hour tells you what happens when driving becomes a chore...
 
Omnis
Sorry, I meant premium, not regular. Went back and changed that. Regular around here is anywhere from 1.50-1.70.

Anyway, 4 miles away, Hess was selling diesel at like $2.19.
Click to expand...

$1.85 for premium, at the absolute maximum.
 
Are US gallons smaller than UK gallons then? If so, I think you're struggling... certainly the Lexus hybrid thing gets no where near 30mpg even on a UK gallon - IIRC, Autocars longterm test LX450 managed only 22-23mpg average.

And diesel cars can be fun, but that's not really the point is it? We have a 2008 2.2tdci Mondeo and a 2000 996 C2... sure, the Porsche is much more fun to drive, but the number of opportunities to actually have some fun whilst driving it are so limited on todays crowded roads. Faced with a 300-400 mile trip I take the Mondeo every time.
 
Famine
Diesel cars aren't fun - they're a tool for a chore and driving should never be a chore.

One look at a rush hour tells you what happens when driving becomes a chore...
Click to expand...
Sorry to say, but your age is showing.

A friend in work has a Fiesta* ST TDCi and it ain't a slug, it's as fun as the Fiestas get and even when thrashing the thing he gets 35-40 MPG out of it.

*And I remember you stating that Fiesta's will fall apart in a few years. Well my Girlfriend's is still fine. However, another friend has had the back of the wingmirror fall off, trim inside the door fall off and both levers to slide the front seats forward so you can get in the back break. Ford dealers even stock the levers in quantity as it's such a normal thing to happen.
 
bergauk
I'm not sure why they charge so much for diesel here in the US, but I wish they'd stop it. I'm starting to think that may be the reason why we don't get many diesels here. Apart from maybe the fact when people think of diesel here they think of big rigs and trucks.
Click to expand...

It was the same in the UK 15-20 years ago, diesels were fairly uncommon - compared to the rest of Europe where they were much more commonplace. However now diesel cars account for 43% of all new car sales. Attitudes to diesel will change in America too. An increase in need should bring the prices down a bit. Although having said that, like Famine pointed out, diesel is now more expensive than regular petrol, but that's because demand is outstripping supply and the processes needed for producing cleaner, low-sulphur diesel have bumped up the price at the pump.
 
bergauk
I'm not sure why they charge so much for diesel here in the US, but I wish they'd stop it. I'm starting to think that may be the reason why we don't get many diesels here. Apart from maybe the fact when people think of diesel here they think of big rigs and trucks.
Click to expand...

Diesel prices in the States jumped because of the greenies trying to make it a cleaner burning fuel. Taking sulfur out, etc.

On top of that, they mandated new emmissions regulations for diesel cars and trucks, which cut the mpg of diesels.

Speaking just about trucks here, if you were to buy a brand new Ram, F-350, or Silverado with a diesel, it costs alot more to buy and maintain than a gas engine.
 
Stotty
Are US gallons smaller than UK gallons then?
Click to expand...

Yes. The Imperial gallon is 4.546 litres and the US gallon is 3.785.

Stotty
And diesel cars can be fun, but that's not really the point is it?
Click to expand...

ExigeEvan
Sorry to say, but your age is showing.

A friend in work has a Fiesta* ST TDCi and it ain't a slug, it's as fun as the Fiestas get and even when thrashing the thing he gets 35-40 MPG out of it.
Click to expand...

Diesels can be fast. They can even be good to drive. They're practical. They're economical. They're relatively reliable and hold their value. They get the job done. There's lots of plus points to owning a diesel.

But the only reason for choosing a diesel engine over a petrol one is fuel economy (or, occasionally, towing. Diesel have lots of torque because almost all diesel engines are turbocharged. Non-turbo diesels are too horrific to contemplate). The decision is financial - and at that point you're just buying a tool for a job. Nobody ever bought a diesel because it was more fun than a petrol equivalent, but because they could get a roughly-as-fast car for nearly-the-same money that looks exactly the same and do 15mpg better.

Frankly, if I just wanted transport to take me from this place to that place relatively cheaply, I'd be taking a bus (they're diesel too).


I would never own a diesel car because to me driving is a privilege to be enjoyed, rather than just another task to get out of the way between sleeps. Though note I suggested - for those of us in the UK - a Mk3 Mondeo ST TDCi as a solution to M5Power's dilemma.

ExigeEvan
*And I remember you stating that Fiesta's will fall apart in a few years. Well my Girlfriend's is still fine. However, another friend has had the back of the wingmirror fall off, trim inside the door fall off and both levers to slide the front seats forward so you can get in the back break. Ford dealers even stock the levers in quantity as it's such a normal thing to happen.
Click to expand...

Heh. Mk3/4/5s seem to have an engineered lifespan of about 10 years. I've been told, by a Poverty-type informant, that the Mk6 has an engineered lifespan of 7 years. So, if you have one of the first 2002 Mk6s, look forward to a very interesting year.

The Mk7 is supposed to be massively overengineered, yet lighter than the outgoing Mk6. Again I've been "told" that it has been developed to do for the small hatchback market what the Mk3 Mondeo (and subsequently Mk4 Mondeo) did for the family hatchback/repwagon market - and that got 2007's TG COTY...


Also, thinking about it, I reckon M5Power could buy and import a Mk3 Mondeo ST TDCi for less than his $30k limit. The purchase wouldn't even cost him half of that...
 
Last edited:
Famine
Diesel cars aren't fun
Click to expand...
Excuse me? Audi, Peugeot, and Volkswagen would like to have a word with you.

picture.php


picture.php


picture.php

OK, maybe that one is a chore to drive after that wall tap.

picture.php


Hybrid Diesel
dscf3379xx5.jpg


dscf3413ns6.jpg



EDIT:
Famine
The decision is financial - and at that point you're just buying a tool for a job. Nobody ever bought a diesel because it was more fun than a petrol equivalent, but because they could get a roughly-as-fast car for nearly-the-same money that looks exactly the same and do 15mpg better.
Click to expand...
So, I have a Golf/Rabbit, which I love to drive. I have fun with it. I do pleasure trips, take the backroads home because they are more fun, etc. You know, all the stuff people who enjoy driving do. If they gave us a TDI version here in the states I would likely make that my next car. Same pleasure, same fun, same attitude, only my driving expense has been lowered. How does that make it a tool?

Did you say the same thing about cars when they used turbos to achieve similar performance on smaller engines, but with less fuel?
 
Last edited:
FoolKiller
Excuse me? Audi, Peugeot, and Volkswagen would like to have a word with you.
Click to expand...

Just to play devil's advocat ;) - Surely a diesel race car (or any race car for that matter) is only a means to an end - it's just a tool for a getting a job done too.

Whoever said that a race car is fun or nice to drive anyway?
 
I know a guy who took a FIAT Punto 1.2 (petrol) on a track. That doesn't automatically make it fun...

As I said, they can be fast (the R10 and 908 are faster, regulations notwithstanding, than their petrol counterparts). They can handle well. I'm not saying otherwise. But a diesel car is a microwave - you can get hot food out of it and sure it's nommy, but it's a device to take the chore out of making your dinner... Some don't regard cooking as a chore - I sometimes do (which is why I have a microwave). Some do regard driving as a chore - I never do (which is why I don't have a diesel).
 
Adamgp
Diesel prices in the States jumped because of the greenies trying to make it a cleaner burning fuel. Taking sulfur out, etc.

On top of that, they mandated new emmissions regulations for diesel cars and trucks, which cut the mpg of diesels.

Speaking just about trucks here, if you were to buy a brand new Ram, F-350, or Silverado with a diesel, it costs alot more to buy and maintain than a gas engine.
Click to expand...

Also if you tried to haul anything with a new F-350 you'd average around 4mpg.. My dad's 99 F-350 gets better mileage than that. Still when you have a 100 gallon tank and you get about 12 miles per gallon or around that area. you only need to fill up every so often.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Posts

Back