350z,g35,c32 Amg,m3

[IMADreamer]

Isn't the GTO a bit faster than the M3 in a straight line?

It really isn't as far behind in the corners, it's always been a surprisingly good handling car for a big Oz brute.

The Interior on the GTO's I've sat in was nice, the M3 had a more functional set too it, which was nice as well, but the E46 cars just leave me cold, I've never actually lusted after one.

Yeah, I love hearing them go, and they are pleasant looking....but it isn't weird enough, maybe the E90 version with the flame surfacing will prove more odd, either way I think the Z4M is a far superior car to the E46 M3, but it's out of his price range.

So, get an older M3 and something cheap on gas to run about it, or get a GTO, that can do the gas mileage thing on the highway, and can stoplight drag with the best of them.

Really, if I had that money, I'd be torn between a new Mustang GT and a 5.7 GTO.

I drove both the GTO and GT recently and the GTO IMO is a better car in almost everyway and the GTO I drove was an auto. The mustang did have the edge in sound, but other then that it was all GTO. That's just my opinion though, I am sure others think completely different.

 

[neanderthal]

G35 unless you track your car

lower insurance than the Z. near same performance.

sexiest looks of all of them M3 included.

 

[YSSMAN]

G35 Sport Coupe is really the only alternative to the GTO beyond the Mustang GT, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I love my Deutsche autos, but the cost to maintain and operate by comparison to the Americans and Japanese is just out of whack if you don't have the money to spend to begin with.

I'd almost be more tempted to go for something like a 2004 R32, but good luck finding one, as most have gone to VW fans and collectors who aren't looking to give them up, much less include the residual values into the prices.

Best thing you can do is drive them, but with my expiriences between the GTO and G35, I prefer the Pontiac, GM blinders on or not.

 

[red70mach1]

The 350Z makes my pick for the sports car. Its my balance between price and performance.

 

[rollazn]

M3!!!

You can't go wrong with a M3. If not get the G35 Coupe - they are nice...

 

[Master_Yoda]

350z, because there soooo sexy, and if yiu tune it a little.. It moves liek hell... you will smoke people in style... and well it sounds demonish.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

M5Power
Hey Doug,
long time no chat, I was hoping to get your input on the issue
I stumbled on the C32 AMG by accident, I didnt expect the C class to pack much punch, but seeing the stats surprised me. I figured I could throw on a custom pulley (my freind has a machine shop and would do it for free) and increase boost, I hear the german versions were non limited? I could probably swap out the ecu, but other than that performance parts seem pricey and few and far between since everything seems to be tailored to its bigger brothers. My only other gripe was the lack of a manual transmission and a lack of cd player without the nav system or the voice-activated digital phone.
I chose the Z because I love nissan and its more affordable, and has a large selection of aftermarket but the interior texture is a nightmare to clean and luxury isnt a strong point.
Which is what led me to the G35 which gave me more comfort and still has a decent aftermarket. But a new model is comming out soon so perhaps I should hold off on it.
The ///M was thrown in the mix because they are both fast and comfortable, but as you pointed out it is the most expensive and also expensive to tune, the C32 seemed a great alternative despite the lack of aftermarket support and the auto gearbox.
4 seats isn't a must, do you have some other suggestions? Perhaps just suck it up keep the current car and wait for the new GTR

Pink_the_Floyd
Yes but supras are getting along in age and its hard to find one that isnt overpriced or raped by teens. I pretty much agree with what pupik said

Poverty
Road and track did a comparo with the S4, M3 and C32, the C32 was the faster in the slalom than the S4, had a faster 1/4 and had 2mpg better feul economy despite having more hp and torque The Z is lacking in comfort, same for the evo, which is why i had to bring up the G and the german cars.

LeadSlead#2
I want a good balance of performance and comfort, the G was a good alternative to the Z because you can use the JWT tt kit and still keep your nice leather seats All those other cars are great but I want something comfortable and will hold off on the big engined cars untill my insurance company decides not to rape me seeing as I'm only 21. Old viper/NSX sound nice but I'm also looking for a relativley new car.

KSaiyu
yes they did firm up the suspention
I found 1 Rs4 within 300 miles and its $73,520

Jim Prower
Actually I am planing to do just that, however I want to do a restoration on an older car as a project right now I need a daily driver

IMADreamer
Yeah I've seen lots of M3's and Z's and G's which is another reason I like the C32, the typical benz tuners do have some things out there but most focus on the bigger AMG's
F/I on the Z/G isnt an issue, Im a memeber and do some graphics for the largest Z/G club in the state, My good freind did a at home install of the APS single turbo kit and its still running strong and we have some real tech gurus on our team

exigeracer
Awesome car and in the range, but not good for those long trips

Onikaze
The E46 is the one I was talking about in this case, and if I got the G35 I'd get the JWT tt kit, which is an awesome kit, I think VRT has their G putting out 800 ponies to the wheels with that kit, granted I wont go that high, but still not a soccer mom car by any means.

YSSMAN
Great car but not too fond of the styling. Slalom speed is slower than the C32 by 5mph, 0-60 is .1 slower on the GTO, 0-100 is .5 slower too, the AMG has better braking and better city feul economy. quater mile is slower by .1, skidpad is identical and top speed so really its pretty much equal to the AMG in every way. That and the comfort factor is higher on the benz.
Maintenance isnt an issue, I get OEM parts at cost and pay no labor for anything as far as european/japanese cars go due a close family friend who owns several repair shops dealing with imports and european cars, I dont have any such connections with american cars though

Max_DC
The STI is in the same boat as the evo in terms of luxury

19xx
The SLK is nice too but according to R&T the recirculating-ball steering system is somewhat slow and heavy, and there’s noticeable understeer through tight turns. (The rack-and-pinion system in the C-Class is noticeably superior.)

 

[1X83Z]

It's proabbly the most overpriced used car on this side of the Atlantic today, thanks to F&F.

Before you make that statement, you should check out used prices on the Land Rover Defender 90.

Hey Doug,
long time no chat, I was hoping to get your input on the issue
I stumbled on the C32 AMG by accident, I didnt expect the C class to pack much punch, but seeing the stats surprised me.

Definitely - I'm in the market myself (albeit with about a quarter of the cash you have) and I checked out a C36 today ('96-'98 version of the AMG C-class). It's really a whole different world from the C-class, which has a reputation as a stoic, poor-handling German sedan, especially in comparison with its competition, like the A4 and 3-series.

I hear the german versions were non limited?

Can't speak to the German ones, but the UK ones were limited.

My only other gripe was the lack of a manual transmission and a lack of cd player without the nav system or the voice-activated digital phone.

I agree that in that market, manual would be nice. But I can offer a bit of consolation: one, the automatic has a manual shifter, two, it's a 5-speed auto, not a 4-speed like on my potential C36. And three - if you're going to get an auto from ANYONE, let it be AMG - they've had practice.

Which is what led me to the G35 which gave me more comfort and still has a decent aftermarket. But a new model is comming out soon so perhaps I should hold off on it.

Or, check out buying one at the end of its model life. The drive itself can't get much crisper than the current model, so if you get, say, an '07 right when the all-new '08s are coming out, you'll probably secure a deal. Same story on used ones - when the new model debuts, resale values take a big hit, so if you CAN wait, it might be worth it. With that said, I usually advise against waiting - say you wait a year for the new G35, then you get word of another product coming in a year, and you wait for that... before long it's endless. Some waiting is okay, but not lots.

The ///M was thrown in the mix because they are both fast and comfortable, but as you pointed out it is the most expensive and also expensive to tune, the C32 seemed a great alternative despite the lack of aftermarket support and the auto gearbox.

Indeed - the truth of the matter is, I personally would probably take the Mercedes of the three choices you mentioned, but the Japanese cars offer the better value. At the end of the day though, I think it's the M3 that offers the best performance. Which may or may not be worth the high price.

4 seats isn't a must, do you have some other suggestions? Perhaps just suck it up keep the current car and wait for the new GTR

What exactly is the price range?

 

[Max_DC]

M5Power


Max_DC
The STI is in the same boat as the evo in terms of luxury

Well, I suppose t has not enough luxury? Go to a dealer and sit in it. The interior might not be Mercedes quality but they are using fine materials, the steering wheel, handbreak, shift know - all made of fine leather and they work perfectly. The seats might not be out of real leather, but they are shaped just right... In the end you have to decide : do you want a sports car or a compromise ?

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, its too bad you can't get a deal on American parts, as you really are missing out on a great multi-purpose sports coupe with the GTO. Ask any Aussie and they will tell you the same thing, for the money, the Monaro just cannot be beat. But hey, whatever floats your boat man...

As noted before, my secondary vote would be going for the G35 Sport Coupe. It packs plenty of performance and refinement together in one great package, and with the power boost last year, it should have enough go, being that it is just two ponies shy of the tri-century mark. But, that doesn't mean I love the car either.

The interior is bland, and there really isn't any way around it. Even the FX45's interior is more appealing, and that is by a wide margin. Added to that, the plastics are C-H-E-A-P. People complain about the poor plastic surfacing in the GM lineup, but for a $30K car, the G35 dissapoints by comparison to the 3-series and C-class.

Then there is that whole thing about the looming 2008 redesign. Granted of course that it isn't a complete overhaul, but it is enough to almost call it a new car. The interior (thankfully) was the first thing to get changed, and the revamped exterior is a bit easier on the eyes, given that the G35 has gotten a bit long in the tooth.

---

If I may ask for a moment, why not save some cash and buy a lesser version of the 3-series? The 330ci is still a great car by comparison to the M3, and given the money that you would save, you could put it twards that 42" Plasma HDTV you've always wanted...

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Doug
Glad to hear that the tranny isnt that bad, any idea how it responds to aftermarket tuning? I suppose it should handle it well. Evosport has a kit for $5,490.00 that puts the C32 at 435 hp / 420 tq

The G35 idea sounds about right, like shopping for electronics, always waiting for the next big thing eventually you just have to quit waiting and buy something.

I can wait, my current car has no problems whatsoever, I guess its more a case of the "wants" than the "needs". 30K-ish was my planned budget with money also put into modifications, however as some pointed out to me if I wanted to I could wait save another 15-20K and drop it all as a down payment on my dream GTR once its released in 08.

I also know somone who owns a repair shop specializing in BMW/Mercedes/Audi etc, I can probably get a "totaled" car thats already repaired and has a clean title for relativley cheap. However that depends what he gets in stock and I have to have the cash on hand. BUt I could end up walking away with a nice V8 AMG if i get a good deal. If I buy now I want to avoid payments, but if I wait another year or so I'd be willing to buy something more expensive and pay payments.

Max_DC
For now I'm looking at a decent luxury/performance car

YSSMAN
Then do you suggest just waiting and buying something bigger and better later on? The idea seems more and more apealing.

42" plasma? I've been a tad bit spoiled and gotten used to playing around with dual $30,000 10,000 lumen projectors and eight 60" plasmas at church where I run the media equipment

 

[1X83Z]

Doug
Glad to hear that the tranny isnt that bad, any idea how it responds to aftermarket tuning? I suppose it should handle it well. Evosport has a kit for $5,490.00 that puts the C32 at 435 hp / 420 tq

That's pretty legit. Tuning this engine won't be hard, but it'll be expensive - most aftermarket Mercedes tuning is done in large packages with huge horsepower gains and by professionals. The engine used specifically in the C32 only made its way in to two AMG products - the C32 and the SLK32, which was the more popular of the two - but you won't struggle to find parts, since it was just a modified version of a very popular non-AMG Mercedes engine (the 3.2-liter V6 used in several products including the C320, E320, SLK320, ML320, etc.). Not sure how the internals will hold up with power increases, but 435hp would put it in the low 4 second 0-60 range.

For $30k some other stuff you might consider:

An original Acura NSX is a bit of a left-field choice, but there's a chance it's worth it. And on the subject of 2-seaters, while the BMW Z3 is a total woman's car, the performance version of it, both the M Roadster and M Coupe, was hardcore. I'd look around for one - seriously. And while an E46 M3 is hugely expensive, the E36 models (95-99) aren't, yet they're still great cars - and it's the only generation with a sedan (also made in coupe form and as a convertible, though the latter is '99 only). Another left-field suggestion that may be worth checking out is a Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6, which was the other vehicle to use that supercharged 3.2-liter V6 also found in the SLK32 and C32. It's not bad.

Your choices tend towards rear-drive, but you can't go wrong with a new (04+) Maxima. And there's also the Altima SE-R. If you were willing to go bonkers and consider an SUV, the car-like Infiniti FX - possibly even the FX45, which debuted in '03 and may be in your price range - gives you one hell of a car-like ride, and very good acceleration (mid-sixes with the 4.5-liter V8). You can also have your pick of 00-01 Audi S4s, but the more recent ones are off-limits to you. In '01 Audi made an S4 wagon which was the only year that happened on the old style. At the time it was the quickest wagon ever sold here. Quite cool.

Other stuff... hmm... on the "luxury" side: I'm personally shopping for BMW 7-series, and you would be well-advised to check out an 00 or 01 model (pre-Bangle) which handle spectacularly well for a large car and are LOADED with stuff. Also, you definitely shouldn't pass up the Acura TL and CL Type-S, both of which are, though front-drive, very good performers, the CL-S coming with an available (and rare) 6-speed manual in '03. And the present Acura TL is also one hell of a car - and definitely worth considering.

$30k can also get you quite a bit of Porsche, you know.

Let me know if anything listed here jumps out at you. It's a nice price range to be in.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

I've been checking out several of the mercedes forums, it seems 12's are the stardard in the 1/4 on the C32, 12.8 with nothing more than pulleys which isnt bad at all.

I just found out about the crossfire thing on one of the MB boards, quite interesting. While the M coupe does sound nice, I'll have to check out the aftermarket on those as I love to tinker with things.

Not too fond of wagons and SUV's as I dont have the need for anything like that at the current time, but it may be something for the future.

I drove the TL and I actually like it quite a bit, but its not a big tuner car either which is why I had some reservations.

I suppose If I am to invest time and money into this, I'm better off waiting at this point and either I wait for the next generation of cars to come out and buy something more expensive and make payments since there are lots of tempting new cars out or scheduled to come out soon. That or the current generation becomes more affordable and I have more money to invest in modifications.

not only that but that twin turbo 3 series looks pretty interesting, reminds me of the supra. I'll be interested to see its potential.

 

[YSSMAN]

Bigger and better always works out well in the end, IMO, but it's your money not mine.

...If I was looking for a $30K car right now, depending on how I felt, the Hyundai Azera would be near the top of my list. It certainly isn't a sports car, but the comfort would be nice to have on a daily baisis. If not, the VW Passat W8 is up there, along with the afformentioned GTO and even the new GTI.

But even then, I'd almost be better off waiting for the Zeta/VE sedans and coupes, as they will all be great deals right around $30K as well...

 

[GT Pro]

Take the C32 AMG. .👍

Even though it will prove the most difficult to tune, there is a number of reasons why you should definately consider this car.

Firstly, it's the least common, which makes tuning it better, in almost every aspect; it's rarer, will turn more heads (maybe), you will appreciate it more and your car will be far more unique than the rest of the crowd.

The supercharged engine is also a screamer, I've been in one of these things and I can tell you it sounds beautiful and it's also dangerously quick.

If you guys are wondering how great it looks, look no further:-

 

[1X83Z]

it's rarer, will turn more heads (maybe),

Not exactly. When you and I look at a C32, we see this:

When the general public looks at a C32, they see this:

Frankly, I think that's a huge plus - sleeper status - but I've been derided on this forum for having that view before ("if it don't look no cool then it ain't no cool") so maybe I'm a bit out of my mind here.

 

[Poverty]

the merc looks dated these days. How much are R32's going for in the states?

 

[NismoR34Ztune]

I still think you should aim for the AMG, the wolf in sheepclothes, because it's clear this is the best choice, and if you think the looks are dated, you can always buy some AMG C55 kits which will make it look a lot better than it already looks

 

[Max_DC]

I've driven the C32 AMG... I think it was horrible. Fast in the straight line, but it sucked at corners. The elecetronics ruined the whole car and afaik there is mechanical thing aswell, dunno how that part is called in English, but I think the differential won't split the power on the rar wheels, which results in a lot of smoke and bad conrer speed. They say that the latest AMGs are a lot better, that one wasn't. And it also had insane fuel consumption (27,xy litres/60 miles... well I drove pedal to the metal, but still...). So take whatever car you want, but don't take the C32... That is no sports car, really not. So take the M3 or the 350 Z. The 350 Z has some cheap and good supercharger possibilities which will give you 400 hp for a fair amount of money...

 

[Poverty]

^^ I agree with that.

 

[YSSMAN]

the merc looks dated these days. How much are R32's going for in the states?

Often times the R32 still sells (used) for the same price as it once was (new). You are generally looking at somewhere between $25-30K USD, sometimes more depending on the color and how much it had been used.

...Keep in mind we only recieved them for one year (2004), and I belive we had fewer than 4000 come to North America, most of which was bought up by VW fans and collectors.

Good news: VW says R32 MKV should be in the US by June or July 2007.

 

[KSaiyu]

I think he means the GTR R32.

lol 70+k for an RS4....I have no idea on new car prices
Would that be enough to buy a hot hatch, or is that out of the question.

 

[Poverty]

lol RS4 would be my answer to everything if the budget was there, until the monster RS6 comes.

But YSSMAN assumed right in that I did mean the R32 veedub.

 

[KSaiyu]

ahhh my bad

OT but, definetly agree on the RS4 if the budget was there- are they gonna be making one with a DSG do you know?

 

[YSSMAN]

But YSSMAN assumed right in that I did mean the R32 veedub.

Of course, IMO its the only R32 worth mentioning in most cases... Granted if this was the '90s, that might be a bit different...

 

[Poverty]

From what I know the DSG wouldnt fit, hence it not being available, and also because so far audi can only make it work with certain engine layout.

 

[High-Test]

So I'm in the market for a new (new to me, not necessarily brand new) car, around 30 something grand, I want something I can tune, and give an awesome experience all around.

Which is why you spend 16,000 on an old 3.0 CS, look cool, be sporty, and spend the other 14,000 on maintenance or tuning.


Or... you could get a used 2006 Dodge Charger R/T.

Wait a minute!

1999 Lexus SC 300. Why not? 2JZ, good looks, it's RWD 2 door coupe, goes like stink, and you'd be able to pick one up cheap enough to have money left for goodies, like a new torque converter, or a pair of Magnaflow 14821s, or maybe even do a 1JZ swap...

 

[19xx]

I did a few more research with the C32. I couldn't find any shock absorbers for that particular vehicle. The verdict may be that both this and the SLK use pneumatic suspension? I heard nothing but curses and more curses (ex. Lexus LS400 and 500SEL) when it comes to replacing these air jordans.

 

[neanderthal]

Which is why you spend 16,000 on an old 3.0 CS, look cool, be sporty, and spend the other 14,000 on an E30 M3.

there, fixed that for ya.


you could substitute W124 500E for that M3, or a 190E 2.3-16, or a ZX32 turbo, or a 3rd gen fbody, or a new yamaha R1, a DC5 type R integra, an early S4 (V6 turbo!!!)

or even better, go old school with a BMW 2002, datsun 240Z or 510, and merc 280SEL 4.5 to complement that 3.0CS. The 3.0CS is not negotiable.everything else is the cherry on top.👍

 

[1X83Z]

ahhh my bad

OT but, definetly agree on the RS4 if the budget was there- are they gonna be making one with a DSG do you know?

No - RS4 is true manual only, says Audi.

Of course, IMO its the only R32 worth mentioning in most cases...

You can't be serious. That thing was depressingly crap. By the way, the "new R32" will be called the R36, I assume.

you could substitute W124 500E for that M3,

You and I are the only people on this forum who would make that suggestion.

I took that picture a long time ago because I thought it was funny that "JAGUAR" is on a Mercedes. I didn't realize until after I had uploaded the picture to my computer that "JAGUAR" is actually on the extremely rare Mercedes 500E, which in my view is the coolest Mercedes of my lifetime. Plates say it's a 1-owner '92.

For those of you who are unfortunately unaware of the 500E, this vehicle basically set the stage for every single AMG model, though this was even more special as it was hand-built by Porsche and only 1500 vehicles ever came to the United States. It used a 320hp 5-liter V8 and did 0-60 in the low fives. At the time, BMW was running a straight six in the M5, so the Merc had it for brute force and it had it by about a second in the 0-60 run. Spectacular and unfortunately overlooked supersedan.

You mention "substitute a W124 500E" as if it's something anyone can do - they're not exactly easy to find!