50 of the Same Car! When Are Variations of One Car Too Many?

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JohnBM01

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GTPlanet, I'd like to address a certain topic which may upset a lot of people. If you look in GT3, you will find many different Lancers from the Evo IV to the Evo VII. You also have the two Tommy Makkinen Lancers. One of them is red, the other has stripes, but you can purchase them for the same price. And not to mention that you can get a Lancer VI or VII Prototype car.

So here's the problem. How do you go around putting in the same versions of one car? Like, let's say that Ford puts in its Mustang. Then you'll see the very first one, the Boss 302, Mach 1, Mach 2, Mach 3 Concept, the most recent one, the Pace Car... if too many Lancers are enough, what if someone else came off with several versions of the same car? How do you draw the line if you are PD?

First of all, don't say that there are too many of the same car. In my "Menu and Presentation Considerations" thread, I said the following:

Posted on: March 19, 2004; Page 1
"...another idea is that maybe the 'showroom' can be in car categories. So if you went to Toyota and wanted a Supra, first off, you choose the Supra, and the section has cars arranged from oldest models to newest model, or you can choose newest models to oldest. Which ever you wan interchangable, and you can choose whether you want models to be in ascending or descending order..."

How do you get around this, if this is a problem in choosing cars for GT4? Or could you care less about 50 variations (I know I'm exaggerating) of one car?
 
I actully think that it IS important to have more than one of each car... However there shouldn't be more than two if the car is almost the same. For example the Lancer Evo VI and the VI TM Edition. BUT I do want to see every base model of every Lancer made... I to VIII. I don't see the need for the GSR and RS versions however... Although I hope you don't think that if they don't add a RS Lancer you'll actully get one unique car in return. It obviously doesn't work like that. So I guess you have to leave be.

I also want this to be true for ALL cars in GT4. Not just Lancers and Skylines. All major models of the Mustang should be there and so on.

I want the GT series to keep the whole catalogue feel it has.
 
also, have you noticed on prologue, all those legacy, i mean, there is a 2.0 litre version, a 3.0 litre version and some other version i can't remember, and that also accounts for the wagons, i meant it is RIDICULOUS!!! why do pd put like 3 different versions of just 1 car? is it so they can make their deadline of cars or what?
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
"...another idea is that maybe the 'showroom' can be in car categories. So if you went to Toyota and wanted a Supra, first off, you choose the Supra, and the section has cars arranged from oldest models to newest model, or you can choose newest models to oldest. Which ever you wan interchangable, and you can choose whether you want models to be in ascending or descending order..."

I think this is the way they shoud do it yeah, by cost in the new car showroom or by either cost or age in the used car one. although im hoping to see only a small selection of used cars available each day, maybe changeing every 2-3 days days and randomly. giving a bit of a bonus for the people who check reguarly as they might find a gem. perhaps a "Wanted" option would help the people who cant be bothered checking all the time, athough this may take a week or two (random, perhaps with rareity taken into account) and the car will cost slighly more...

it would mean that people COULDNT start with the same car, which i think woud be a good thing
 
If they have like three different Evo 8 Race Cars with different performance, it beats me.
As long as they don't have a regular Evo 8 and a "prototype" which is exactly the same, as John mentioned.
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
GTPlanet, I'd like to address a certain topic which may upset a lot of people. If you look in GT3, you will find many different Lancers from the Evo IV to the Evo VII. You also have the two Tommy Makkinen Lancers. One of them is red, the other has stripes, but you can purchase them for the same price. And not to mention that you can get a Lancer VI or VII Prototype car.

Hey, Lay off the Lancers. Thats going on Holy grounds of Mitsubishi.

Originally posted by JohnBM01
So here's the problem. How do you go around putting in the same versions of one car? Like, let's say that Ford puts in its Mustang. Then you'll see the very first one, the Boss 302, Mach 1, Mach 2, Mach 3 Concept, the most recent one, the Pace Car... if too many Lancers are enough, what if someone else came off with several versions of the same car? How do you draw the line if you are PD?

Ford's....*cough*....We don't need Mustangs in GT4. That'll get them American Muscle Heads in the game and then they drive those things thinking a simple Mustang can trash a Toyota GT-One or a Escudo in a 1/2 mile drag.
 
I have always hated how they put soooo many versions of one car rather than more different cars!!!:mad: Just cos the game is Japaniese doesnt mean it has to have 400 Japanese cars out of the 500 cars + most of them are mainly evo's!! :lol: I dont understand why they dont put more American or European cars in.....for example you don't see the game having (for example, mercedes) an A-class, C-class, E-class, M-class, SL, CL, CLS, SLK etc. etc. Most of the Japaniese manufacturers have the whole range from small cars to racing ones (all the models they make)........WHY CANT THEY DO MORE CARS FOR OTHER MANUFACTURERS!!

rrrrrr..:mad: it really annoys me how it sooo orienteered at one sector of the worlds cars.........

p.s.......I really like Merc's:)
 
Same thing could be said about the Lancers and those blind Lancer fans.

It doesn't seem quite right that the Japanese cars get all this multiplicity treatment, then none of the others get the same kind of thing. I mean, how many different Focus models are there? At least 4 current production models. And all we got was the WRC car. Not that I'm a Focus fan, I'm just making a point.
 
Yeah......what i mean is that there is to much of a focus on Japaniese cars, I'd rather have more different car's than multiples of certain ones. If PD are going to do the "multiplier effect!!" on the Japaniese manufacturers then they should do it on all of them at the least.......

Look at GT3.....it had like 20 cars+ for all the Japaniese manufacturers (most of them the same cars in different versions) and ONE!!! Alfa, BMW etc etc.....

Thats the only problem i have with the GT series.....:D
 
I agree that having lots of versions of the same car model is not a great thing. I think there are a few reasons why they do tho.
The first is because of the main people behind the game, then I am sure that Nissian, Toyota, and others help support the game more then other manufacturs. Perhaps one of the big reasons would be that once you build one car model, then it would be relative easy to change a few of the car parameters such as engine out put, weight, length, height etc. Epecially since many if not most non american car models have roughly the same features from year to year, especially 70's thru mid 90's models.
I do like the ideal in the first post of this subject, click on car model and then you can acess to all the cars that are available. For instance seperate show room for corvette, mustang, camaro etc. That would also kind of fall into showing the history of the cars, you could almost instantly see how one paticular car model has evolved since it's very first one.
 
I don't really see a problem with having more cars.

It takes a couple days to model a car perfectly from scratch while it only takes a couple hours to modify an existing model. In fact it probably took less time to model the entire modern Evolution line than it did to model a single complicated Le Mans Prototype.
 
You have to think about it this way:

- It's good to have all the generations and models of a specific car represented in the game.
- The addition of all these variations doesn't implicate the non inclusion of other cars (i.e. if a specific model/brand isn't there, it's not because there are "50 of the same car").

I think it's as simple as this and you just have to learn to live with it, altought I understand your concerns and frustrations about it.
 
This is only really a problem with the Skylines and Evos. They're both decent cars in the game, but I have no use for so many of them. I'd rather see more race cars, especially LMPs.
 
Did any of you notice GT1 has 95% japanease cars? GT2 has 50%

I like mutiple versions of one car. Not all Skilines are AWD. And many cars looks very different than its predecessor. THe Idea is to have as many cars as they can even if its the same car different trim or generation.
 
Originally posted by Arcticfox
It takes a couple days to model a car perfectly from scratch
A couple weeks, actually.

And now that I think about it, having multiple versions of a car is probably not too hard on disc space. Because once you have one Lancer or whatever modeled, wouldn't it be fairly easy to do a lot of file compression for the others?
 
This is a bit of topic,but how come you can not get a blue with white stripes viper?I mean god its like the most common couler an d my favourite.
gtr.gif
 
We don't know.

You can't just reuse the data for another car to make a new one. In terms of rendering the new car, yes, you can make slight modifications to various aspects and produce a new model relatively easily, but it'll still occupy the same amount of disc space. To suggest that because we have 50 Lancers consuming a certain amount of disc ISN'T the reason a few more varied cars aren't included doesn't add up. There are other reasons but limited space is one, and that comes from duplicates.
 
Originally posted by Eagle
We don't know.

You can't just reuse the data for another car to make a new one. In terms of rendering the new car, yes, you can make slight modifications to various aspects and produce a new model relatively easily, but it'll still occupy the same amount of disc space. To suggest that because we have 50 Lancers consuming a certain amount of disc ISN'T the reason a few more varied cars aren't included doesn't add up. There are other reasons but limited space is one, and that comes from duplicates.
But I just can't believe PD will not include a greater variety of cars just because they prefered to have 50 Lancers. Or include a second disk for that matter.

But then I may be wrong... :rolleyes:
 
GT2 has the formula right: Tons of Japanese Cars (which I personally do not prefer at all) but ALSO tons of US cars, both Modern and Muscle, as well as numerous British cars (both my favorites).

GT3, however, was a waste for me. No Muscle to be found. Limited US options at all honestly (in my opinion, I am sure Japanese fans were more than pleased) and only a few British cars (although what WAS there was good IMO).

I am hoping, with the return of a huge Car Total in GT4, that PD will return to the more equal representation they provided in GT2.

GT4 just won't be any fun (for me) without a few classic Dodge Chargers, Ford Mustangs, Pontiac GTO's and (I can only Pray) New Dodge Hemi Magnum's and New Ford Mustangs to throw around the new courses......

It is not a question of the car's inherant "quality" (an issue that can be debated for enless time here between Classic car Guys, Muscle Heads, Drifiter, Ricers, Mod Fans, NASCAR Heads, Open Wheel Folks and Every other sub-group of Car Guys!).

It is an issue of having the cars I (and many others) LOVE, regardless of their inherance racing quality (or lack therof).
 
Right. Indeed they did it. But not because of disk space I believe.

Btw, next time quote the text you are answering to, please... ;)
 
With Blackfish's comments, that goes back to the question of parity. How can GT take advantage of several nationalities of car and appeal to as many audiences? Personally, I just hope that Australia can be represented. I'm saying this because the country has Holden, Ford Australia, and that JOSS Supercar (search for my "Australian Cars" topic in the GT4 category for more on my Australian car talk). Australia can SO be a contender on the world stage. I mean, Peter Brock, Craig Lowndes, Mark Skaife, Steven Richards, David Brabham, and almost anyone else I've forgotten (if I forgot any big names, my apologies). I wouldn't want any overdoing of it, though. I mean, a few cars, some racers, some utes, ute racers, that's fine with me and other GT fans.

As far as American cars go, you have to admit that some of the classics PD pulled out will be a welcome addition. I'd love to race a 1957 'Vette in red and white, or a wonderful 1963 Corvette. Those are two of my favorite American cars. A Mustang from the 1960s would also be a wonderful pickup. A 1950's Thunderbird wouldn't hurt either. Bring back the Camaro Race Car, the Viper GTS-R from Team Oreca, a Saleen S7 and Saleen S7R, and that's pretty much it... and the SRT-4 Neon. If they were nuts, SRT-10 Ram.

I mean, like American cars or not, you have to admit. You have to appeal to everyone. I mean, hate Chevy. Hate Ford. Hate Dodge. Hate anything made from Detroit (once a great auto city in the past). Have to appeal to everyone.

But here's my view. You can make several versions of one car and have them as seperate categories. I'd personally like to see some Supras and Silvias. Of course, I'd want the latest from them. As far as Lancers and Skylines go, however, they have an extensive history. That's about as much as the Mustang and Corvette here in the States. But then, can you trust a Japanese game maker to beautifully capture Americana?
 
I dont mind having lots of variations of a particular car.

Whether they be different engine sizes of a car or the older models of a car. Whether they be a BMW E36 3 Series, E46 3 Series and then have a few engine variations for each range.

Or whether it be the Evo 6 GSR and the Evo 6 RS.

I dont mind, in fact I quite like it. To some people those little variations of the cars might mean alot to some people who love lancers, wrxs, 3 series, s classes etc etc.

HOWEVER!!!

What pisses me off is that with the Lancer, you get a bunch of different versions of it for GT3 and then only ONE type of BMW 3 Series.

Thats what pisses me off. If you're going to have lots of versions of a car, have different versions of alot of the cars where its posible, dont just focus on skylines, supras and lancers and wrxs.

There are people (like myself) who love BMWs and would like to see as many versions of our beloved models as there are for the lancers and other Japanese stuff
 
Also with the amount of cars to be included,I dont think it will really matter about a few variations of each model. This also adds to the realistic flavor of the game.
 
I agree totally, if PD are going to put mulitple varaitions of one car in the game then they should at least do the came for other manufacturers not only Japaniese ones.

When I mean multiples I mean of the same car, in the same year.......I dont mind having lets say, a 1999 evo then a 2000, 2001, 2002 etc. etc. But what I dont like is to have 6+ variations of the same car, in the same year!!!, e.g. 9 Evo 7's

MORE CARS FROM DIFFERENT PERIODS IN TIME AND MORE OF A RANGE IN EACH MANUFACTURER :D
 
When they put in "another" evo7 dont think you are missing out on getting a totally different car, your not. the time it takes to create the original and one with sightly different HP/Weight are miles apart. even if the model needed altering sightly ie add/remove lights, different spoiler etc it takes a HELL of a lot less time.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the people creating the cars and the people giving them the physics may not be one and the same. so the people that put the correct HP/weight etc in cars arent gonna sit around twiddleing there thumbs, there gonna be adding as many variations as they can.
 
I didn't understand the last part of your message, but I will say that just because it's easier to slightly modify a Lancer into a different model Lancer and call it a 'new' car is a cop out, it's a cheap way to boost the total number of cars and something I think is below PD and their lofty standards. I'd wager they put just as much work into creating a different model of a car as they do into a completely different car in terms of testing, the only difference is in modelling which would be slightly quicker, but you're still trading in disc space for what is essentially a clone. Yes, there are differences, but in most cases, they're not that significant. If there are significant differences then include both, but otherwise exercise some discretion.
 
I see when GT4 comes out, with the vastness of cars that are expected in the next game. It doesn't matter when there's hundreds GT-R's, Evo's, and WRX's, just like GT2 it will neutralize these cars and by the time GT4 comes out, it will not matter anymore, thats why I love playing GT2 than GT3.
 
The Vanishing Boy
I see when GT4 comes out, with the vastness of cars that are expected in the next game. It doesn't matter when there's hundreds GT-R's, Evo's, and WRX's, just like GT2 it will neutralize these cars and by the time GT4 comes out, it will not matter anymore, thats why I love playing GT2 than GT3.
Yes that is a good point it really showed in GT3 because of the low car count, hopefully with so many more cars said to be in GT4 it won't matter. I mean no one really comlained about GT2 having this as it had a huge amount of cars.
 
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