- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
Makes more sense now.
500PP European Non-Racing Car Super Lap: Eiger Nordwand Short Track
- Thread starter nowcontrol
- 168 comments
- 22,042 views
- 315
- London, UK
- Lou8ball
1.06.247 for 18th using a Frankenstein tune (most of @GT_Rajman suspension plus own gears and LSD).
Think I can get in to the 1'05's as my splits are all over the place
The tune:
Ride 120 70
Spring 6.30 8.60
Bound 5 6
Rebound 5 6
ARB 7 7
Camber 0 0
Toe 0 0.05
Brakes 5 2
LSD 10 10 10
Wing 20
All power parts except intake (there might be a better combination than this)
321bhp
Ballast 39kg @ pos 0
899kg
Gears were set with a different power level, so might not be repeatable...
Max speed min
3.971
2.943
2.344
1.969
1.684
1.461
Final 3.600
thanks for sharing your tune. Found 0.2 in only 5 laps. Down to a 1'07.0 now
I remember using one of your tunes for a tt on deep forest ages ago, always seem stable and good for Ds3. I lowered the rear anti roll bar setting to 5, and front to 3, seemed to help my exit line on the right before the tunnel.
Should be able to squeeze into the 1'06s - had one red flagged as I took a wide exit on the last corner before the line.
Has anyone tried using different wheel sizes, do they make any difference?
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
thanks for sharing your tune. Found 0.2 in only 5 laps. Down to a 1'07.0 now
I remember using one of your tunes for a tt on deep forest ages ago, always seem stable and good for Ds3. I lowered the rear anti roll bar setting to 5, and front to 3, seemed to help my exit line on the right before the tunnel.
Should be able to squeeze into the 1'06s - had one red flagged as I took a wide exit on the last corner before the line.
Has anyone tried using different wheel sizes, do they make any difference?
Glad you like it
DF tune may have been the Corvette?Good luck getting in to the 6's 👍
As one who clearly 'doesn't know it' (the trick) I was wondering if you would elaborate on that.
Started this one today with the 111r (Stotty's tune) but am having a ton of trouble with the turns, particularly r/h turns for some reason. It just doesn't stop turning. Had to go back to the buttons (DS3) to get into the 1:08's.
- 907
- CAR_ODB
Ermn... Car doesn't stop turning? Is it because it's MR car with some ballast on the rear, car starts to skit and seems like the car keeps on turning even though your wheel is straight? Or does it seem like actually front wheels keeps turning even though you have the wheel straight, meaning your wheel is broken??
Many times (depending on tune) many MR cars just seems to persist the direction once you get it to turn... On MR cars the idea is to keep steering inputs at minimum, you merely "suggest" the car to turn and it will turn until you stop it from turning
Or something like that, but basically driving MR car is way different from example FR car so maybe it's just something you haven't got used to yet?
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
I'm not sure what 'tricks' @GTP IWIN is talking about, but suspect it's to do with optimal combination of power parts and weight.
IMO though, the most important thing on the 111r is a tune that is able to address slow corner understeer and fast corner oversteer (these are the underlying handling traits of the car).
There are 2 corners where the 111r wants to 'over rotate' on entry... the long right hander at the bottom of the hill in T2 and the long right hander at the end of the lap.
In both cases, those corners have a fast and long entry that typically would require some trail braking. But trail braking in the 111r from high speed tends to create some brake release oversteer - the car's rotation increases as the brakes are released.
The amount of this a driver can manage is usually linked to their skill level - the better the driver, the more precise their control of weight transfers through the steering and brakes.
@GT_Rajman tune was too much for my ability, so I had to tone this down a bit.
If you're struggling with my tune I'd suggest you increase LSD decel (in increments of 1) until you get the balance you like... I would try to avoid increasing it too much as the negative effect of LSD decel is more entry and mid corner understeer in the slower corners... maybe increase it to a level you feel 100% comfortable with initially, then as you run more laps and get more precise, gradually reduce it.
You can also get round this by braking more in a straight line and 'squaring the corner off'.
Thanks for the input OBD and Stotty. I think one thing was as OBD says, just getting used to a mid engine car after rear ones.
I have returned to using the wheel and found, as Stotty pointed out, that braking in a straight line before the turn really helped. Turn easy, go hard, turn easy again.
Too late to look at LSD changes tonight but will do so tomorrow, in any case I have beaten my DS3 time 1:8.4 something and am now 1:7.922.
That r/hander after the tunnel is a killer.
I have returned to using the wheel and found, as Stotty pointed out, that braking in a straight line before the turn really helped. Turn easy, go hard, turn easy again.
Too late to look at LSD changes tonight but will do so tomorrow, in any case I have beaten my DS3 time 1:8.4 something and am now 1:7.922.
That r/hander after the tunnel is a killer.
- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
The BIG parts problem the 111R has is with it's power band. it has a massive dip in power. So you have to
A; Flatten it
B; Work with it.
I tend to go with working with it. Install a High RPM turbo and every RPM gaining upgrade there is to make it bigger.
Build your transmission to stay with in it at all time or your time will suffer horribly. I'm got a transmission tuned up for it.
Engine RPM; 10,000
Initial Final Drive; 3.500
Top speed; 180 km/h / 112 mph
1st 5.139
2nd 3.927
3rd 3.193
4th 2.678
5th 2.258
6th 1.898
Final Drive; 3.000
Shift at 8,500 rpm
The only time I flatten the power band is at lower PP levels where I can apply 80% Power limiter and still hit PP.
- 174
- USA
- matilda1234
@ODB AND @Stotty, I am enjoying both tunes, thanks again for sharing:tup:. It might just be my imagination, but adjusting the ride heights on the Elise made it drivable for me.
Any advice on taking the right hander after the tunnel? Spinning or flying off to the left are too frequent occurences, and this one is certainly driver error.
Any advice on taking the right hander after the tunnel? Spinning or flying off to the left are too frequent occurences, and this one is certainly driver error.
- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
@ODB AND @Stotty, I am enjoying both tunes, thanks again for sharing:tup:. It might just be my imagination, but adjusting the ride heights on the Elise made it drivable for me.
it's the bump in the track right
Maybe someone else that's got more skill can give a better suggestion. that's just my way of dealing with that spot in the track.
edit'ed corrected my self on location and technique for that spot. was one turn a head of my self while typing.
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- 174
- USA
- matilda1234
- 907
- CAR_ODB
@ODB AND @Stotty, I am enjoying both tunes, thanks again for sharing:tup:. It might just be my imagination, but adjusting the ride heights on the Elise made it drivable for me.
In that Miura I just try to turn in quite early thus keeping the car as straight as possible, just apply a tiny amount of brake before apex, so you should be able to be back on the throttle almost immediately after apex...
Main point is just to keep the car as straight as possible, and scrape off just enough speed before the apex (not too much, you should be going over 150 km/h over the crest, at least in Miura) to keep the car from going too wide...
- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
i correced my self on the location of the bump, was a turn a head of myself while I was typing. it's the bump right AFTER the turn that gets me. leading into the turn it's smooth just has a slight dip to the inside and is uphill, that dip combined with the sudden rise in track elevation is whats causing the back of the car to come up reducing tracking on the drive wheels. So you need to be straight to be on throttle and if you not you need to be at 50% or less to save the car.
Well said @ODB 👍
- 174
- USA
- matilda1234
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Pretty similar in the 111r 👍
I don't think I brake for that corner in the 111r (if I do, it must be unconscious!)... I change up to 6th in the tunnel, then ease off the throttle and change back down to 5th and then ease the car in to the corner quite early. Soon as I've turned in I keep a fraction of throttle applied all the time to stop the weight transferring and causing oversteer. Then I get back on gas at the apex, but at c.90% throttle to avoid losing traction on the bump on the exit.
Key is to lose the speed early, turn in early, and be as SMOOTH as you possibly can... focus on getting out of the corner straight with as little steering angle as possible... then you can carry the speed all the way up the hill.
@ODB AND @Stotty, I am enjoying both tunes, thanks again for sharing:tup:. It might just be my imagination, but adjusting the ride heights on the Elise made it drivable for me.
That's not your imagination 👍
Ride height is the broadest way to adjust the rotation - less negative rake = less rotation, but the effect is not as precise as adjusting the LSD in this case...
Running LSD decel ONLY affects the braking and coasting phase, and leaves exit grip untouched.
Running less rake will give you more understeer everywhere, including from the apex.
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- 174
- USA
- matilda1234
- 907
- CAR_ODB
Seems to me that in Miura it's better to brake just a hair to get optimal speed trough that corner... I actually think that same result could come from just coasting bit before the corner, but quick brake around 20% braking force (or below if possible) seems to do the trick... At least sometimes
Me and "smooth" are not often used in the same sentence.
I would really describe my natural approach to this driving thing as simply "reckless" but as I have banged my head in the wall doing these TT's the smoothness is inevitably raising it's head
so yeah, just be confident, the smoothness will come, especially when you but some miles in in these MR cars
- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
go drive a few hundred laps in the rain 100% water with sports tires, that will smooth you out 👍Thanks so much Stotty, you guys are so helpful and it is most appreciated. Me and "smooth" are not often used in the same sentence.
Speaking of that I need to take my own advice and do that
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Thanks so much Stotty, you guys are so helpful and it is most appreciated. Me and "smooth" are not often used in the same sentence.
With cars like the Elise, smoothness is absolutely critical to going fast... if you're not smooth the weight transfers will just kill you.
If you're going to do one thing, focus on keeping your steering inputs as small as you possibly can.
- 174
- USA
- matilda1234
Well one thing is certain, both tunes make the tight bends faster and easier:tup:, and that was job 1.
- 879
- Chigwell Essex
- stewyripper
- What's an xbox?
Just for a laugh got 2.24.511 on this event in the elise Backwards all the way round.
- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
Did you save the replay?Just for a laugh got 2.24.511 on this event in the elise Backwards all the way round.
- 5,489
- mid west USA
- Otaliema
Sorry for the double post but am finally posting a tune for this challenge
Lotus Elise 111R '04
it's not a fun drive but it is fast I have had several 1:07.xxx going only to ditch it after the tunnel or botch the last turn.
The transmission on it is built for maximum acceleration while still giving you a top speed of 200+ km/h on the back straight.
Lotus Elise 111R '04
it's not a fun drive but it is fast I have had several 1:07.xxx going only to ditch it after the tunnel or botch the last turn.
The transmission on it is built for maximum acceleration while still giving you a top speed of 200+ km/h on the back straight.
- 1,048
- Rockanje
- Mike-ZENKAI
Big thanks to @Stotty , @r1roman , @GT_Rajman and everyone else for sharing your tunes and tips. 👍
Finally had some time to try this seasonal properly. Managed a 1:06,806 with my little Lotus so far. (DS3, ABS1)
Still some time to gain for me if I could only have a decent run after the tunnel until the finish line.
Good luck everyone in chasing that "perfect" lap.
Finally had some time to try this seasonal properly. Managed a 1:06,806 with my little Lotus so far. (DS3, ABS1)
Still some time to gain for me if I could only have a decent run after the tunnel until the finish line.
Good luck everyone in chasing that "perfect" lap.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Spent 2 or 3 laps on heavily detuned Diablo GT replica ( curb weight 1500+kg, 40/60, camber + RL gearing ), 1:10s flat, could have been 1:09s. Gold and move on to more cars to work on.
- 879
- Chigwell Essex
- stewyripper
- What's an xbox?
- 315
- London, UK
- Lou8ball
Glad you like it
Good luck getting in to the 6's 👍
Thanks, I think it was the Corvette. Always enjoy deep forest time trials.
Finally managed a legitimate 1'06 (without getting red flagged for taking too much dirt through the last corner)
Down to a 1'06.699
Probably at my limit now, I can go through the first sector a bit quicker, but I just bottle it out of the tunnel section.
Would be at the bottom of the mountain somewhere, if the barriers and crowd weren't so solid.
Good luck for your next run,
- 9
- Belgium
- lapinorly
hello first post for the orly
for those who wants :
my ktm street tune....1.08.078 on stick/auto
240/870kg 46;54
351nm
75-66
5.5-10.3
front 3-4-1
rear 6-4-3
0.5-0.2
-0.10+0.45
brakes 6-6 abs 1
180-3.56-2.8-2.21-1.78-1.52-1.334@3.49
5-14-25
pad auto ct1
83.5% ech +admi course
120kg ballast
(for euro values)
Edit : 1.07.964
for those who wants :
my ktm street tune....1.08.078 on stick/auto
240/870kg 46;54
351nm
75-66
5.5-10.3
front 3-4-1
rear 6-4-3
0.5-0.2
-0.10+0.45
brakes 6-6 abs 1
180-3.56-2.8-2.21-1.78-1.52-1.334@3.49
5-14-25
pad auto ct1
83.5% ech +admi course
120kg ballast
(for euro values)
Edit : 1.07.964
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- 1,182
OK, finally gave in and used the Miura with a Praiano tune. I was feeling pretty good about my 1:07.980 (803rd) until I noticed a 1:01.013????? How?? Who is this alien SpeedBloo? How is the car so fast? I'm no alien, but I can drive that first corner as good as the next guy for sure, and his ghost just leaves me like I'm sitting still. WFT? I need that tune.
Oh, and congrats to Bewildebeast and GT_Rajman for such awesome times, you guys rock!
Oh, and congrats to Bewildebeast and GT_Rajman for such awesome times, you guys rock!
