$50K Question: Uber-Sedans and Super-Coupes

[IMADreamer]

YSS, is that an Impala or a Saab> Do you know?
GT4Rule, I take it you finished your exams?

If you are talking about the picture he posted it's a Holden I think.

 

[boombexus]

Wow, a very tough decision here.

I'm torn between the 300C SRT-8, CTS-V and the S4.

I suppose the first one of my choices I would drop would be the 300. I really like it's look. Its sort of "chop top", look. But I've seen a few of them recently and they just don't look sporty enough. They kinda have a more, "gangsta" feel to them. Ya know. Rollin on dubs and shiz like dat.

The real dilema lies between the S4 and the CTS. I'm literally torn between the two.
The S4, lost the turbo/ bi-turbo that its earlier bretherand had. So, scratch the S4 I guess. Don't really like the new looks of Audi. (however, i'd like to add that the cabriolet looks magnificent.) If I had chosen Audi, It would have been the S4 Avant. Near 50/50 weight distribution.

So, in writing this post, my conclusion comes to the CTS-V.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Loomlexus, Im going to report you for saying shiz!
And then you'll get banned and Ill replace you!
Just kiddng.
Anyway, I dunno whether to get the 300 or the Charger or the CTS or the...
I ended up picking the GT500, but they all so great!

 

[YSSMAN]

YSS, is that an Impala or a Saab> Do you know?
GT4Rule, I take it you finished your exams?

...Pictured there is the new VE (Zeta) Holden Commodore, presumably an SS, based uppon the larger wheels, spoiler, etc. It should have a 355 BHP 6.0L V8, 6-speed manual transmission, and I would expect 60 MPH to be reached in about 5-ish seconds. It isn't a bahn-burner like the rest, but for a little more than $30K USD, it is a pretty damn good deal.

But then again, this would'nt be too bad either...

That, presumably, is the new Impala that is based on the same Zeta platform as the Commodore. It should use the same V8, and will probably have a 6-speed 6L80E automatic as standard fare. If youre looking for a cheap alternative to the 550i or E430, this would be it...

 

[JCE]

Don't forget a cheap alternative to a Cadillac.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Yes, but the new Cadillacs are on the way as well. The new CTS is supposed to be a real sweatheart, and a better compeditor to the BMW and Lexus lineup. Then there is all that stuff about the top-line Caddy that may get V12 power, but we will see what happens...

 

[GT4_Rule]

I'd like to see a more radical design for the next-gen Impala though. Something that can live up to the name and the SS badge, not some front-driver with V8.

 

[JCE]

I'd like to see a more radical design for the next-gen Impala though. Something that can live up to the name and the SS badge, not some front-driver with V8.

Agreed. I'd personally like to see a return to the old school Impala, bigbody RWD V8 muscle car. But that'll never happen. GM's US division is made of up morons. At least Dodge is going in the right direction with the Challenger...but the Charger should NEVER have 4 doors.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd like to see a more radical design for the next-gen Impala though. Something that can live up to the name and the SS badge, not some front-driver with V8.

...What more do you want? The car is going RWD, it will have a wide variety of engines going from the 3.9L V6 to presumably the LS2 V8. I don't know if a manual will be offered, but the car will be quick, and should handle quite well given it's presumably LARGER size than the outgoing model.

Yes, yes, I would love to see a retro-designed monster with a HUGE V8 and no possible way to turn left or right, but I like this new one. Design does need to move forward at some point, and although they have used a few styling ideas from older models (lots of chrome, circular tail-lights, etc.). Now the Camaro is retro, but it isn't overly done as the Mustang and 300 were.

GM doesn't want to get stuck in a styling rut much like Ford and Chrysler will be in when they need to design their next-gen models, as GM will allready be looking to modernise their cars even more.

 

[JCE]

Now the Camaro is retro, but it isn't overly done as the Mustang and 300 were.

GM doesn't want to get stuck in a styling rut much like Ford and Chrysler will be in when they need to design their next-gen models, as GM will allready be looking to modernise their cars even more.

Are you on crack? The Mustang isn't NEARLY as overly done as the Camaro--that being said I like them both. And actually the Mustang isn't overly done at all in my opinion--I actually think they hit the nail on the head perfectly. Not even the 300 is overly done...and I don't see Ford in a styling rut. I see DC in a styling rut as a whole, but they are getting better with time. And of all of the big 3 GM isn't exactly revolutionary, infact with exception of Cadillac and the Corvette GM is really lagging behind in the US. It's taken them too long to bring over other regions cars. At least DC has a couple of decent RWD cars and Ford even has an AWD saloon. Last I checked most of GM's main saloon cars are FWD. Americans are wanting RWD and AWD now...FWD is slipping in the marketplace (thankfully).

And, I think it's kind of hard for you to be objective when you love GM so much. I may love Ford as much as you love GM but I still give props and be at least a little objective towards other car companies. 👍

 

[GT4_Rule]

...What more do you want? The car is going RWD, it will have a wide variety of engines going from the 3.9L V6 to presumably the LS2 V8. I don't know if a manual will be offered, but the car will be quick, and should handle quite well given it's presumably LARGER size than the outgoing model.

Yes, yes, I would love to see a retro-designed monster with a HUGE V8 and no possible way to turn left or right, but I like this new one. Design does need to move forward at some point, and although they have used a few styling ideas from older models (lots of chrome, circular tail-lights, etc.). Now the Camaro is retro, but it isn't overly done as the Mustang and 300 were.

GM doesn't want to get stuck in a styling rut much like Ford and Chrysler will be in when they need to design their next-gen models, as GM will allready be looking to modernise their cars even more.

But what everybody will notice is the styling, not RWD or a V6. Style is one of the main factor of buying a car. A little more radical design, not some design that look like a warmed-up Lumina would be better.

 

[Jay]

Style is one of the main factor of buying a car.

Not for me thats for sure.

 

[GT4_Rule]

One of the major factors.

Pretty obvious why SsangYong Rodius isn't selling - it's damn right ugly.

 

[Jay]

Pretty obvious why SsangYong Rodius isn't selling - it's damn right ugly.

Its selling here, well not sure how well but I'm seeing quite a few.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

...Keep in mind that it is NOT the RS4, just your standard $50,000 S4 with the regular grade 4.2L V8.

I was so tempted by the Mustang, but it just isn't what it should be even with 500 BHP. I really was dissapointed after I read the article... I thought it was going to be a monster... I mean, not to say that it is slow, but I figured that it would atleast BEAT the S4 and M3...

EDIT: IMADreamer: Is there another car that you would choose? I wanna hear some heated discussion in here... Some of these threads have gotten a little boring since Danoff's "Tolerance" thread...

YOU"RE A LOSER!!!! HOW COULD YOU NOT TAKE THE MUSTANG?!?!?!?
is that good?

No, but seriously, at least in the past decade or so, Mustangs have found a way to make power, even at the wheels, and still not be that fast.

I said OTHER.....
I'm gettin a Used C5 Z06 for this money, and keeping 15K while I'm at it.


Hey! if you don't care about styling, why you gettin a 50K car? huh? huh? yeah, thought so.

 

[YSSMAN]

Are you on crack? The Mustang isn't NEARLY as overly done as the Camaro--that being said I like them both. And actually the Mustang isn't overly done at all in my opinion--I actually think they hit the nail on the head perfectly. Not even the 300 is overly done...and I don't see Ford in a styling rut. I see DC in a styling rut as a whole, but they are getting better with time. And of all of the big 3 GM isn't exactly revolutionary, infact with exception of Cadillac and the Corvette GM is really lagging behind in the US. It's taken them too long to bring over other regions cars. At least DC has a couple of decent RWD cars and Ford even has an AWD saloon. Last I checked most of GM's main saloon cars are FWD. Americans are wanting RWD and AWD now...FWD is slipping in the marketplace (thankfully).

And, I think it's kind of hard for you to be objective when you love GM so much. I may love Ford as much as you love GM but I still give props and be at least a little objective towards other car companies. 👍

I quite like the styling that the Mustang and 300 have to offer, and I have gone on record many, many times that this is probably the first Mustang besides the origionals that I would ever consider before a Camaro. The 300 looks good, same with the Charger, but there is a problem...

Where do you go next? How do you evolve a retro design? Volkswagen has that problem with the New Beetle, and all they did was stick an S-style bumper on the front. How are they going to evolve the Mustang? Make it look like the crappy '70s-style models? Go for the Mustang II?

These are all examples of the great American car reformation that is going on in Detroit. Americans bennifit because their cars look better, drive better, and sound better all while reminding us of the glory years in American history.

BTW: That is why GM is quickly changing the majority of the FWD vehicles over to RWD with the exception of the Epsilon models, as they will be looking to do battle with the Honda and Toyota front drivers. The only other FWD models are going to be the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS.

...Keep in mind that Zeta models in the US include:
Camaro, Monte Carlo, Impala, GTO, Grand Prix, and Invicta (Buick). The majority of those models listed there (except the Camaro and GTO) are replacing FWD W-Body cars, so all of the full-size GM models will now be RWD.

 

[IMADreamer]

I think the idea of what comes next for the retro styling is exciting. I love the retro thing really. It took me a bit to catch on but after I did I think it's great. So what comes next? It seems to me the other trend on the horizon is sleek styling. Maybe the designers take retro and make it sleek and modern. I know it's some what of an oxymoron but the pictures in my head of where cars like the new Mustang would go are interesting. Too bad I can't draw for crap. I can't wait to see the new generations personally. Think of it as a way for modern designers to revise history so instead of the sexy classic mustang look eventually evolving into the mustang II we end up with something totally different 10 years down the road that still harkens back to the retro mustang. I think good things are still to come out of this retro thing. We just have to wait and see.

 

[JCE]

I agree with Dreamer, sleek and smooth styling is next. Retro can only go so far before it gets too much. If Ford does another retro Mustang model I'm going to puke. Same with the Camaro after the 5th gen...retro can be used to reinvent a car only once. But this is my opinion.

And YSS, if GM is moving in the right direction they are doing so quitely. No big huzzah over these new models. Instead of hiding these things with checkerboard tape they should be upfront and give C&D or R&T some kind of exclusive sneak peek--build the hype. If GM want to start competing they need more positive exposure.

I know you like the Mustang and 300, but they aren't overly done. You can't be serious? Oh, and I'm not insulting you or anything I'm just shocked that you said that is all. 👍

 

[IMADreamer]

And YSS, if GM is moving in the right direction they are doing so quitely. No big huzzah over these new models. Instead of hiding these things with checkerboard tape they should be upfront and give C&D or R&T some kind of exclusive sneak peek--build the hype. If GM want to start competing they need more positive exposure.

I think quiet is the way to go this time around. Remember the last year or so all those commercials about the 10 new cars in 16 months or something like that? They didn't work at all really and GM is in the toilet even further. If GM goes all out with an ad campaign and mag tests and the cars are a flop then GM is basically putting the nail in their own coffen. However if they quietly introduce some really great cars and then the mags get ahold of them and actually praise them GM will benefit greatly. The Camaro should provide plenty of pop to get people out to the dealerships so as long as the cars are quality no hoopla is needed IMO.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Judging by the two photos of what appears to be the Malibu and the Impala, it looks as though the SS Concept from a few years back has had a greater effect on the styling of Chevrolet's products than what we all thought.

Given that there are so many people dedicated to capturing the photographs of these new models, I don't think GM has to worry about making a name for the cars either. They have enough die-hard GM fans like me to keep the news flowing on the internet, and they have enough magazines eagerly anticipating their arrival, as they also keep the news flowing as well.

I think GM has a lot of guts by not going retro with their new models. Sure, they may include a few retro touches such as the four-pot tail-lights, plenty of chrome, etc. Once again, GM is going against the grain, and they may come out a winner because of it.

---

BTW: Maybe my useage of the word "overstyled" to describe the Mustang and 300 was a bit incorrect. They are quite retro, uniquely American, and a damn good example of what Detroit can do when their balls are in a vice.

...My only concern is that the models won't be able to evolve, but thats just me...

 

[Onikaze]

I'd have to go with the GT-500.

Though, technically if I had that money and had to get something similar, I'd get a Mustang GT in Blue with the White Le mans stripes, and then I'd turn it into a GT-350 myself.

Where can the Retro Mustang go, stylewise?

Adjust the proportions, make the edges more fluid, keep some of the chunkiness, but try to make the car leaner overall. I could see it if I still had any dreams of being an artist, but I don't.

There ya go.

 

[GT4_Rule]

I believe that picture was posted in another thread a long time ago. It's probably not how it will end up looking like in the next redesign. Looks too similar to the current one.

 

[Onikaze]

Why trash the current car completely?

It's not like it's an ugly design like the last one was.

That pic has surely been posted before, but again, it's a good example of how you could modernize the current Stang some more.

 

[YSSMAN]

...I belive the picture you have there was one of the preliminary sketches for the origional concept coupe...

 

[Tornado]

Why trash the current car completely?

Because it is about as original as a 3-series rip-off, and it leaves no room for expansion. What do you do? Make it look like a Pinto-Stang next? Or a god awful early 80's Mustang? No no, they need a complete redesign.

It's not like it's an ugly design like the last one was.

As ham fisted as it was, it's refinements fixed most of the problems I ever had with it by '04, and at least they tried to style it.

That pic has surely been posted before, but again, it's a good example of how you could modernize the current Stang some more.

So was, however, the '93 and '99 redesigns. Think about it: tons of nice retro cues, but a thoroughly modern design. Besides, so is an IRS. And at least a couple of the '99 to '04 Mustangs were legitimately fast cars, what with the handling; and not just "go straight at a slower speed than a 10-year old Camaro Z28" like the GT was (and is now, though I will admit that it can handle about as well as it should have 5 years ago).

 

[Onikaze]

I just really like the current car.

The fox/aero/new edge mustangs...meh, I'd rather have a black crown vic PI and have people think I might be an unmarked cruiser.

I think, given that the current stang is way too tall, cutting the profile down some, slicing the roof some too, making the transition from the hood to the grill a bit smoother, while keeping the character shown in that original concept sketch, would all modernize it, but keep it's "Mustang" DNA visible.

 

[YSSMAN]

...There isnt anything wrong with the current Mustang style wise, and I think it put into motion the notion that American cars are worth buying again.

But, the car is not without it's problems...

1) Build quality could still be better, but it isn't half bad either.
2) The engine still needs an extra 20+ BHP to get up there performance wise.
3) The transmission needs an extra cog, as highway mileage could be vastly improved by doing so. I mean seriously, how much extra money does it cost to get the Tremec T-56 into the Mustang? It was a $1250 option (if I can remember correctly) on the Camaro and Corvette, and I doubt people would care on the Mustang if both performance and fuel economy increases.