6th Gen Chevrolet Camaro: 2017 ZL1, Z/28

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I think that of all the retro designs thrown out in the last 15 years (Jesus, has it really been that long?), the current Beetle and the new 500 wear it best. I'm not sure where on the chart the Ford GT would go, but that aside the pony cars have done it fairly well. I don't like the '05 Mustang, but I also don't care for the original either. I like the outgoing one, and like the incoming one more, and while it does look bloated next to an old Challenger, the current one can be a nice looking thing....can be. The Camaro came in too late to truly shock with it's retro design, and while I'm warming to the back of the refresh, I keep thinking that they really need to do something different to break open the market. What? I don't know, but not what Chrysler was thinking with that rehash of the '99 Charger Concept.

Come to think of it, what Chrysler did with the Charger might be a good way to think about it, because the only thing retro there are FR, Name, and the bar taillight the refresh got.
 
Joey D
I'd really like it if they dropped the whole retro thing. Give it a modern body, give it a good engine selection and offer it with a 6-speed manual and DCT, and finally give it a good suspension setup that will make it a proper sports car all for less than $40k.
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I'd like to see them continue on where the 4th Gen left off. It was a good looking car in 1993, and it was still good looking after its style evolution in 1998, especially the SS models with the blacked out lower grille. A modern interpretation of that via the Code 130R would be more than acceptable, and overall, I think would be a great departure from the aging, retro-styled competitors.

If I were the head of the Camaro program at the moment, I'd be writing KISS all over the place. Keep the damn thing simple. Sure, offer complicated models at the top, but go back to letting folks buy a decently priced, V8 coupe with no extra frills, and plenty of performance potential. Go ahead and use the CTS' version of the Alpha chassis. Make the standard engine a 2.5L turbocharged I4 with at least 300BHP. Offer the 315 BHP V6 only as a conciliatory option, but kick it toward the chopping block depending on sales adoption.

The different thing I'd do compared to Ford is offer two different V8s. First, they should be using that 5.3L V8 from the Tahoe, et all. Good for 355 BHP, with direct-injection, cylinder deactivation and all that other stuff, it should be good for 30 MPG once that 8-speed transmission gets connected to it. Make that the Camaro RS, and let that have an optional 1LE package to make it an affordable performance coupe. On the higher end, just carry over the Corvette's LT1 V8 and 7-speed manual for an SS. Faster, but not outrageously more expensive.
 
I am so sick of retro-styled cars. I've decided they all look horrible, every last one of them. Even the Mercedes SLS. Car designers need to always have modern designs, not designs that look like they came from the 60's or 70's. Retro syling belongs in the 2000's, not the 2010's.

I mean what is next? Are we going to have retro fox body Mustangs in 10 years?
 
You know, almost as annoying as the lazy retro cash in that kicked off about fifteen years ago is the current reactionary trend to that to claim that sharing any design similarity with a car from the past makes the entire design "retro." The line is certainly a fuzzy one at times, but vaguely sharing proportions or design ideas with a car from 60 years ago does not lock the SLS AMG under the same class that the 2005 Mustang or 2008 Challenger.
 
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Turbo I4 - NO! It's a Camaro, it should have NA V6, NA V8, and possibly SC V8 only.
Retro, appealing to baby boomers - Do you really want a Camaro desinged for the current generation? Consider your answer carefully.
 
It'd better be a good one. With the Mustang going global and Holden dying off, I'm fairly certain that this car will have to be a global model as well. It'll have to be damn-good no matter where it ends up.
 
White & Nerdy
Turbo I4 - NO! It's a Camaro, it should have NA V6, NA V8, and possibly SC V8 only.
Retro, appealing to baby boomers - Do you really want a Camaro desinged for the current generation? Consider your answer carefully.
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Ten years ago, hell probably even 5 years ago, I would have agreed with you because that was my exact frame of mind. I would have slapped future me in the face for even driving a four cylinder. But these days when you can get almost twice the MPG, more power and save weight with a direct injection turbo 4, there is no use for the NA V6.

Watch closely as the new Mustang starts to sell and see which sells the least out of the Ecoboost 4, NA V6 and top of the line V8.

Hopefully the V6 will be obsolete by 2016 so the Alpha Camaro will just be available with a lighter, nimbler turbo 4 or the all out (nose heavy) V8.

If they make a 1LE turbo 4 Camaro at 3600lbs or less with 300+ hp, I'm in for it. Unless it looks like that 70's render. :crazy:
 
White & Nerdy
Turbo I4 - NO! It's a Camaro, it should have NA V6, NA V8, and possibly SC V8 only.
Retro, appealing to baby boomers - Do you really want a Camaro desinged for the current generation? Consider your answer carefully.
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If it's smaller and lighter than current one, I will welcome all turbo I4 variants.
 
I think the only question will be whether or not GM will use the neutered version of the 2.0T with ~255 BHP, or go back to the full-bore 272 BHP unit that first debuted back in early 2013. They claimed the loss of power was to add more torque and to make the power band more usable - admirable qualities - but still far short of what Ford has offered.

They're going to need to strap a turbo to the 2.5L I4 that's already good for 200 BHP out of the gate. They've gotta crack 300 BHP to even make it worth it in this market. With all their quality issues right now, I'm wondering if GM even wants to do a new powertrain like that unless they're going to do a wider application in their next-generation Lambda SUVs (Enclave, Acadia, Traverse), or in the new Theta (Equinox, Terrain) crossovers.

Tell you what, I still want to see a wider application of GM's Two-Mode hybrid system. Why not shake things up with a next-gen version of that? The hypercars have it... Could be an interesting marketing piece, and, be a great way to drive down those CAFE numbers a bit more.
 
White & Nerdy
Do you really want a Camaro desinged for the current generation? Consider your answer carefully.
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You mean the Code 130R? Because I think the Internet says, unanimously, yes. :lol:

The artwork from GM is... interesting... to say the least. Some of the stranger items, like the wraparound windshield and the way the body dips down around the headlamps won't make it to production, obviously. I doubt paring the body back at the corners that way will help with the small offset test... but you never know.

I'm imagining something with the general shape of the current car with those lights and grille. Not bad. Maybe.
 
I have to wonder how much the internet wanted the 130R on its own merits rather than how much the internet wanted the 130R just because it was another potential BreeseFreez-esque car. The thing was to "ugly" as the Tru 140 was to "Eclipse knockoff"; and GM pumped it around just like they did the Fiero when it was new, like they couldn't even grasp how it could be thought of as sporty.
 
I wanted one because Escort/510/Lancer. Otherwise, I didn't find the styling too unappealing.

Of course, GM could put it up to an online vote... and we'd get another horrible looking little pile like the Spark. How that won over the other two entries, I'll never know...
 
White & Nerdy
Turbo I4 - NO! It's a Camaro, it should have NA V6, NA V8, and possibly SC V8 only.
Retro, appealing to baby boomers - Do you really want a Camaro desinged for the current generation? Consider your answer carefully.
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One why would Chevy design a car for such a limited group, many of which don't have the ability to drive anymore, and those that do don't want or need a car like this. You're asinine concept of a bunch of baby boomers waiting for some twilight years Camaro is well...like I said asinine. Why would GM/Chevy alienate a much larger group. I'm sure these cars help get those buyers but they aren't only for baby boomers.

Now for the I4 turbo portion...it's a damn engine package, one you can completely ignore for the other options that you listed. The Mustang has the I4 (though I really question if you know this without being told) turbo again and no one really seems to have a major issue with it.
 
It's just plain wrong on principle. And while baby boomers might be a bit far out, I think a Camaro designed for my generation might not even be a Camaro. Knowing the way people think these days it could come out with FWD and no avaialble V8 of any sort.

As for the turbo 4... that's just wrong on principle.
 
Baby Boomers are getting old and they will soon start dying or having such bad backs that a sporty car just doesn't make sense, continue to design sports cars for them makes no sense. If GM wants to keep selling Camaro's and have them be successful they need to look at the market and see what new car buyers want. Sure some buyers will still want a V8, but I don't see GM discontinuing that, they are just offering more choices to attract more buyers so they can make more money...assuming they don't cheap out of the ignition switches.
 
White & Nerdy
It's just plain wrong on principle. And while baby boomers might be a bit far out, I think a Camaro designed for my generation might not even be a Camaro. Knowing the way people think these days it could come out with FWD and no avaialble V8 of any sort.
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Your head is so far up your own ass you can see your own heart beating, if you even have one...

As for the a turbo 4 being in a Camaro; that's like building a chopper and putting a turbocharged Vespa engine in it just to taut the fuel savings.

Even I think thats wrong. If the V8 was going away, it better be replaced with a grunty twin-turbo V6. You'd still get the same power with the added bonus of being able to drive a little further without having to stop for fuel. Shouldn't being able to drive longer better overall?
 
I'm not even joking. The same thing almost happened with a similar car, all the way back in the 80's. Remember the Ford Probe? That was supposed to be the 4th generation of the Mustang. The difference between then and now is, there are probably a lot more people (especially among those just getting their licenses) that wouldn't see a single problem with a legendary muscle car becoming a FWD economy sports coupe. And this time it probably wouldn't even have a V6, the choice would be I4 NA and I4 TC.
 
White & Nerdy
It's just plain wrong on principle.
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Hyundai Genesis Coupe. Designed for this generation. Comes in rear wheel drive with a big V6.

Toyota 86. So designed for this generation that it has one of the youngest demographics of any sports car. Rear wheel drive.

Don't see what the problem is.

White & Nerdy
Ford Probe
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You mean the car that didn't become the Mustang?

Quite.
 
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White & Nerdy
I'm not even joking. The same thing almost happened with a similar car, all the way back in the 80's. Remember the Ford Probe? That was supposed to be the 4th generation of the Mustang. The difference between then and now is, there are probably a lot more people (especially among those just getting their licenses) that wouldn't see a single problem with a legendary muscle car becoming a FWD economy sports coupe. And this time it probably wouldn't even have a V6, the choice would be I4 NA and I4 TC.
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I completely agree with you that a FWD Camaro would be a disgrace but even the youth of today sees the performance, balance and handling capabilities of the FR layout (see Genesis, BRZ/FR-S/GT-86). Replacing the NA V6 with a turbo 4 is not even close to the same tragedy of making it FWD.

The Alpha Camaro will most likely follow suit with the Mustang and offer the V8, V6 and an advanced offering of a current GM turbo 4. By the following gen, sales will have made the NA V6 obsolete.

Edit: Tree'd by Niky
 
White & Nerdy
I'm not even joking. The same thing almost happened with a similar car, all the way back in the 80's. Remember the Ford Probe? That was supposed to be the 4th generation of the Mustang. The difference between then and now is, there are probably a lot more people (especially among those just getting their licenses) that wouldn't see a single problem with a legendary muscle car becoming a FWD economy sports coupe. And this time it probably wouldn't even have a V6, the choice would be I4 NA and I4 TC.
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Why would they even care? Once again the people that like cars but have a shallow mindset, think the rest of the world sees vehicle transport as they do. They don't, most couldn't care less if their car was FWD or RWD or AWD, hell most of them don't learn it until it becomes a selling point and then tout it to their close friends and family after buying said selling point. Once again you're spewing your irrationality and not even trying to see why it's illogical to believe what you do. For once can you grow up and stop trolling and perhaps take the talking points here seriously and respectively.

Also @niky makes a good point, and further more other vehicles still sell that are not eco friendly and are big and unnecessary, many of which are bought buy the younger demographic because it's a status symbol. Cars are bought by in large for getting from point A to B, the second major reason is due to status/looks, and then performance is far down the list. You're idea that every car is going to be an Eco box and the V8 is on it's last leg is asinine as a I said earlier.
 
The fact that people are believing that there is potential for the Camaro becoming FWD and having an I4 has me in awe. First of its the Camaro. Secondly Chevy wants to keep it as "America's Muscle Car" it's more of a pride thing to them. If they were that concerned to get better fuel economy why did they just release a V8 4 door Sedan? Cough Chevy SS Cough. And I'm not sure if there has been an American car that you could get in FWD or RWD under the same model.

My point chevy won't brand a Camaro, "One of America's True Muscle Cars" with an I4. It defeats the purpose of buying a Camaro. But as people have said earlier most people today don't care about performance, so I can see where all this arose from. And Chevy doesn't even have a performance I4 block in production... All of them are just for MPG. Unless you count the discontinued Cobalt.
 
The FWD thing I can understand, but how can you be in "awe" that the Camaro will most likely get an I4? I4's aren't slouches anymore and it's relatively easy to get a good amount of power out of them with current technology. An I4 won't ever be the only engine, but to think it wouldn't become an option is completely ignoring marketing trends.

And GM does have performance I4's, the new ATS has a turbo 2.0L with 272hp.
 
About the I4 debate- early Third Gens were equipped with the 2.5L "Iron Duke" four cylinder from 1982-1984. The 4 Banger was dropped as an engine option in 1985.
 
There are other reasons to hate I4s besides power. Yes, with complicated technology they can be made to move quickly, but they still sound hideous and are I4s. Give me an NA V6 any day of the week.
 
michrulejj
The fact that people are believing that there is potential for the Camaro becoming FWD and having an I4 has me in awe. First of its the Camaro. Secondly Chevy wants to keep it as "America's Muscle Car" it's more of a pride thing to them. If they were that concerned to get better fuel economy why did they just release a V8 4 door Sedan? Cough Chevy SS Cough. And I'm not sure if there has been an American car that you could get in FWD or RWD under the same model.
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Because they're trying to see if they can sell a car to a group that cant afford their more expensive 4 door V8s known as Cadillacs...Marketing isn't that hard to understand. Also your fuel economy angle is wrong for two reasons, one this isn't their only four door sedan people buying this once again are doing so because it's fast but also a family size car. Secondly the car has VVT, AFM, and Direct EFI all of which are measures to save fuel, but can only do it so much at a time on a performance car.

Further more it's a bad example to use when it's a limited built (or converted) car on this side of the Ocean. With only 2000+ cars being delivered a year to dealerships across the states it's not as accessible as the Camaro, and obviously geared toward those who want a performance family car.

Here is another reason why it may be wise to sell an FWD version
http://blog.caranddriver.com/differ...fwd-vehicles-are-sold-in-the-u-s-infographic/


My point chevy won't brand a Camaro, "One of America's True Muscle Cars" with an I4. It defeats the purpose of buying a Camaro. But as people have said earlier most people today don't care about performance, so I can see where all this arose from. And Chevy doesn't even have a performance I4 block in production... All of them are just for MPG. Unless you count the discontinued Cobalt.
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Why wouldn't they, when the real Muscle version of the car is unobtainable to most who buy it hence the lower models. So do they defeat the purpose of buying it too? It clearly depends on who you ask.

Also you're wrong about the the I4, GM has had a performance version for some years and really made moves when they saw the market change. But if you want to ignore the CTS, ATS, GS, Verano, and Malibu.
 
White & Nerdy
There are other reasons to hate I4s besides power. Yes, with complicated technology they can be made to move quickly, but they still sound hideous and are I4s. Give me an NA V6 any day of the week.
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What are the reasons then? And give me actual reasons, not that they don't sound right (subjective) or are unmanly (a misguided opinion). You hate I4's, but I don't think I've ever seen you put forth any real evidence as to why they are bad.
 

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