6th Gen Chevrolet Camaro: 2017 ZL1, Z/28

  • Thread starter YSSMAN
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Ten years ago, hell probably even 5 years ago, I would have agreed with you because that was my exact frame of mind. I would have slapped future me in the face for even driving a four cylinder. But these days when you can get almost twice the MPG, more power and save weight with a direct injection turbo 4, there is no use for the NA V6.

Watch closely as the new Mustang starts to sell and see which sells the least out of the Ecoboost 4, NA V6 and top of the line V8.

Hopefully the V6 will be obsolete by 2016 so the Alpha Camaro will just be available with a lighter, nimbler turbo 4 or the all out (nose heavy) V8.
The Alpha Camaro will most likely follow suit with the Mustang and offer the V8, V6 and an advanced offering of a current GM turbo 4. By the following gen, sales will have made the NA V6 obsolete.
You know, we still have to see whether the considerably more expensive, not-even-remotely-lighter and (if the rest of the Ecoboost line is any indication) not any more fuel efficient model actually outsells the one that is cheaper for Ford to build to begin with before we consider the V6 Camaro to be living on borrowed time.
 
There are other reasons to hate I4s besides power. Yes, with complicated technology they can be made to move quickly, but they still sound hideous and are I4s. Give me an NA V6 any day of the week.

The only reason to hate I4s is that they potentially sound hideous.

Potentially. Which means it's good we have exhaust engineers. You know, the ones who are also busy tweaking exhausts to enhance that V8 burble that's largely become muted due to electronic fuel injection.

Surprising you're holding the candle for the V6. While some sound great, a lot of V6s are annoyingly anodyne, with less off-kilter harmonics than V8s or I4s. That's why the Japanese have used V6s in "luxury" variants of their cars, with displacements down to 1.6 or 1.8 liters.
 
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Power is a terrible reason to hate an engine. The aftermarket can easily overcome that. And since it's a 4 cylinder that is in discussion here, don't forget the Mitsubishi 4G63- plenty of those are built to over 600 hp. Jon Huber's Mustang runs low 9s in a 1/4 mile with a 3L (2.3L stroker) Ford 4 cylinder. Just give the aftermarket time and I won't be shocked if 4 cylinder Ecoboosts are making 500 hp. And if GM brings a 4 cylinder to the Camaro, they probably will as well.
 
Power is a terrible reason to hate an engine. The aftermarket can easily overcome that. And since it's a 4 cylinder that is in discussion here, don't forget the Mitsubishi 4G63- plenty of those are built to over 600 hp. Jon Huber's Mustang runs low 9s in a 1/4 mile with a 3L (2.3L stroker) Ford 4 cylinder. Just give the aftermarket time and I won't be shocked if 4 cylinder Ecoboosts are making 500 hp. And if GM brings a 4 cylinder to the Camaro, they probably will as well.

I don't think the after market is needed, when people are able to engineer these engines to 300+ that's more than enough for the White Collar Joe, who decided he'd put on he lead foot and see how the car goes (but just for a little bit).
 
The premise of his argument as I saw it (and I may have missed his memo) is power or lack thereof from four cylinder engines. That's why I brought up the built engines-they make more power than even some of the most potent V-8s offered for sale today. Even the 300 that a four cylinder would probably make is more than enough especially for most typical sedans. A potentially lightened, rear-wheel drive Camaro should do just fine with a turbo 4. And 300 hp is more hp than my dad's 295 HP LM7 (5.3 LS) in his half ton Truck. 300 HP should easily chirp the tires in something like a Camaro.
 
The only reason to hate I4s is that they potentially sound hideous.

Potentially. Which means it's good we have exhaust engineers. You know, the ones who are also busy tweaking exhausts to enhance that V8 burble that's largely become muted due to electronic fuel injection.

Surprising you're holding the candle for the V6. While some sound great, a lot of V6s are annoyingly anodyne, with less off-kilter harmonics than V8s or I4s. That's why the Japanese have use V6s in "luxury" variants of their cars, with displacements down to 1.6 or 1.8 liters.

There might be a few I4s that sound pretty aggressive, but a Camaro shouldn't sound like a Type-R.

The premise of his argument as I saw it (and I may have missed his memo) is power or lack thereof from four cylinder engines. That's why I brought up the built engines-they make more power than even some of the most potent V-8s offered for sale today. Even the 300 that a four cylinder would probably make is more than enough especially for most typical sedans. A potentially lightened, rear-wheel drive Camaro should do just fine with a turbo 4. And 300 hp is more hp than my dad's 295 HP LM7 (5.3 LS) in his half ton Truck. 300 HP should easily chirp the tires in something like a Camaro.

Not just power, but the feeling and image thereof. Muscle cars are supposed to be obnoxious and old-fashioned, without any sophistication, refinement, or hints of metrosexuality.
 
Feeling is a subjective term. While there are those in my generation (myself included) who want basic amenities and raw power, most people in my generation want as many luxuries as possible and a plush, quiet ride. I know most of my friends could tell you who Katy Perry is, but they couldn't tell you a piston from a connecting rod. GM would be dumb to sell an entry-level Camaro with a loud exhaust since most of the future buyers would turn a blind eye for it being "too rough".
 
There might be a few I4s that sound pretty aggressive, but a Camaro shouldn't sound like a Type-R.

Why would a turbocharged, low-revving direct injection engine sound anything like a catless port-injection, high revving screamer?

Given the turbo fours that MINI uses, which growl, bark and pop like mad, it's perfectly possible to have a turbo-four Camaro that sounds like sex (albeit rather savage and sloppy) and goes like stink.

And if it kills off the V6 option, so what? If an engine doesn't thrill buyers enough to make them buy it, why keep it?

Manufacturers don't force people to buy cars. They're perfectly free to turn their noses up at things they don't like. This is why the Probe never became a Mustang.

This is why the Accord still gets a V6 instead of a turbo four (thankfully, that V6 is a wonderful motor).

This is why the Camaro still gets a V8, because a whopping 40% of buyers buy the bigger motor.

Viva la choice.


metrosexuality.

Yes. Because a growling, popping, barking mad rally motor is the paragon of refinement, isn't it? Someone better tell Sebastian Loeb he's an incredible wuss.
 
And if it kills off the V6 option, so what? If an engine doesn't thrill buyers enough to make them buy it, why keep it?

Manufacturers don't force people to buy cars. They're perfectly free to turn their noses up at things they don't like.
Viva la choice.
That is exactly why the "Iron Duke" was dropped as an engine choice for the 1985 Camaros and Firebirds- nobody wanted them. Now granted, the 2.5 made no power compared to the 2.8 V6, but the people made the choice to not buy them. I think that GM should bring a turbo 4, and if the public doesn't buy it, they'll know to keep the V6 as the base engine. Nobody knows how many people would buy another 4 cylinder Camaro, and the only way to find out is by GM offering them to the public.
 
Feeling is a subjective term. While there are those in my generation (myself included) who want basic amenities and raw power, most people in my generation want as many luxuries as possible and a plush, quiet ride. I know most of my friends could tell you who Katy Perry is, but they couldn't tell you a piston from a connecting rod. GM would be dumb to sell an entry-level Camaro with a loud exhaust since most of the future buyers would turn a blind eye for it being "too rough".

You just stated exactly why I wouldn't trust anyone under 30 with the design of the Camaro.
 
I wouldn't mind it looking like either a Code 130R if they don't do anything else with it (that body design)or a second gen (but it better not have the face in the rendering posted here! :yuck:) Apart from a possible 4 banger, my main question is on whether or not it will be LS or LT powered, but I'd assume that it'll be an LT engine that powers it.
 
I'm happy to see the Camaro is probably getting some liposuction but those headlights are atrocious.
 
Just reading through this thread leaves me with no hope for the new Camaro. Not only are all the renders sickeningly hideous, the conversation is completely stupid, and it's not even completely down to W&N.
 
I don't know about you guys but unless its highly modified, when I hear a 4 cylinder Fox body or V6 car screaming I laugh at its hilariously wrong sounding exhaust note for the body style given the cars history. The Camaro isn't any different.

Its one thing if its a Civic or something. But I just can't help myself but laugh when I see some 4 cylinder Mustang come ripping down the street with the engine screaming and going "whaaaaaa bah bah bahhhh whaaaaa" instead of "ROOOOOAAAARRRRRR" *shakes ground like a violent earthquake*. I just think its absolutely hilarious and disappointing unless its highly modified. 4 cylinders in general sound like garbage to me anyways.

I'm not against having an economical car. But to me thats not what a muscle car is or should be. I like a car that doesn't give a crap about anything and wants to kick you right in the 🤬 face.

I suppose if it sells well good for them.
 
I don't know how anyone can think all four cylinders sound the same. It all comes down to exhaust tuning, pipe size, and the muffler/resonator. The exhaust on my Focus it deep and throaty and doesn't sound anything like a 90's Civic with oversized pipes and a glasspack. Proper exhausts will sound good, cheap cobbled together crap won't, it's the same with any car. If you took a Camaro and put crappy Cherry Bombs on it, it'd sound like ass, if you get something like a Magnaflow kit designed for the car, then chances are it will sound pretty good.

Looking at some of the exhaust videos of the ATS with aftermarket exhausts on YouTube, I would imagine the Camaro with an I4 would sound pretty good with the right set of pipes.
 
The premise of his argument as I saw it (and I may have missed his memo) is power or lack thereof from four cylinder engines. That's why I brought up the built engines-they make more power than even some of the most potent V-8s offered for sale today. Even the 300 that a four cylinder would probably make is more than enough especially for most typical sedans. A potentially lightened, rear-wheel drive Camaro should do just fine with a turbo 4. And 300 hp is more hp than my dad's 295 HP LM7 (5.3 LS) in his half ton Truck. 300 HP should easily chirp the tires in something like a Camaro.

The problem is he's never driven a 4cyl turbo with 300+ so he doesn't have the right to actually make comments but he's a believer (and sadly many help him with it) that everyone's entitled to their ignor- I mean opinion. HE is one of those that would have difficulty pushing a rear wheel drive BRZ let alone a 300+ hp I4-T

VXR
The I4 is an appliance engine. 90% plus of cars in Europe use them. They shouldn't be in muscle cars.

Did you and W&N fuse minds?

Just reading through this thread leaves me with no hope for the new Camaro. Not only are all the renders sickeningly hideous, the conversation is completely stupid, and it's not even completely down to W&N.

I don't see who else is making it "stupid" prior to your posting.
 
I don't see who else is making it "stupid" prior to your posting.
I find it pretty silly that people are already outraged about the ugly renders, when it's very unlikely that the car will actually look like any of them. Instead, people could perhaps mention how Chevrolet has a chance to make a really good driver's car, and that they shouldn't blow it by appealing to the Transformers crowd or W&N.
 
I find it pretty silly that people are already outraged about the ugly renders, when it's very unlikely that the car will actually look like any of them. Instead, people could perhaps mention how Chevrolet has a chance to make a really good driver's car, and that they shouldn't blow it by appealing to the Transformers crowd or W&N.

I don't see how that to any extent is stupid or even comparable to what a certain user on here has said. The renders do look somewhat bad but most of us realize that this isn't the complete car or what it will most likely look in the end, it never is. And those of us that think it's ugly state this or most likely know if we didn't. Also if we didn't think that Chevy has a good chance to make a good drivers car (not sure how the current gen is bad especially the upper level variants) we wouldn't be talking about how to improve it or how a I4 turbo could be beneficial.
 
I don't see how that to any extent is stupid or even comparable to what a certain user on here has said. The renders do look somewhat bad but most of us realize that this isn't the complete car or what it will most likely look in the end, it never is. And those of us that think it's ugly state this or most likely know if we didn't. Also if we didn't think that Chevy has a good chance to make a good drivers car (not sure how the current gen is bad especially the upper level variants) we wouldn't be talking about how to improve it or how a I4 turbo could be beneficial.
I dunno, the overall discussion just seemed very lacklustre and not very centred on the way the car will drive, until W&N came in and started spouting his stupid and bigoted views.
 
You just stated exactly why I wouldn't trust anyone under 30 with the design of the Camaro.

Here's the damn problem. It goes just as much for the Camaro, the Mustang and the Challenger, and every other damn car that the American brands pull out of their back pocket to drive sales because of the heritage of a nameplate.

The whole damn attachment to heritage is killing the ability for our companies to innovate. As committed to history as those damn Europeans are, they'll toss a damn name out the window to try something new, figure out it doesn't work, and go back to the same name like nothing ever happened, while still having a radically different product. Because, why not? Why does a damn name have to dictate what the entry to a changing, fluid, competitive segment has to be?

Everyone freaks out every six years when Chevrolet is about to roll out a new Corvette, and every single time, GM has to remind people of what the basics are; Front-engine, rear-drive, eight cylinders, and a cheap price tag. Honestly, when they're introducing a middle market sports coupe, why the hell would it be any different for the Camaro? Ever? Sure, GM thought about replacing the Camaro with a derivative of the L-Body and the Beretta - just the same that Ford did with the Probe and Mustang. The difference there is that the Feretta would have had a V8, and well, all-wheel-drive. Forward thinking? From my '90s era American motor company?

Simply put, GM won't go tossing the basic formula out for the Camaro. They'll equip it with different engines and transmissions. The pricing structure might step up a notch. But it'll still be a mid-size, 2+2, rear-drive sports coupe. What the hell are we all screaming about? Honestly, if GM wanted to make it V8-only, the market wouldn't care. They'd still buy a bajillion of them because "Camaro" is emblazoned on the back, and there's a bowtie on the grille. If GM wanted to make it N/A V6 and a V6 turbo, they'd still sell a billion of them because "Camaro" and a bowtie. Sure, people would flip, but they'd get used to it, and the market would move forward.

Given GM's cautious take toward the trucks and how it backfired, and their cautious take toward the Malibu and how it backfired, its really anyone's guess as to whether or not they'll take chances with the Camaro. After all, they went very cautious with the new SUVs, and they control 75% of the market. And they'll probably still control 75% of the market, regardless of what Ford or anyone else does. Fair guess is that GM incorporates the Code 130R styling language to a premium mid-size coupe, and uses the platform to introduce the newer tech to the middle end of the market. Its anyone's guess on a turbo I4 if they go that route (I'm still betting on a 2.5T), but you can bet on that 3.6L V6 making an appearance, and it'll be the first non-Corvette to get the LT1, and will probably get that matched to the 8-speed auto out of the box. Row your own will probably be yet another iteration of the Tremec T060, I doubt they'd fork over that 7-speed unit from the Corvette.

As the official GM fanboy on GTP, I can speak of one primary concern: A CTS Coupe, V-Sport Coupe, and CTS-V Coupe. A new Camaro would have to compete with a car on the same chassis, likely using the same drivetrains, with nearly identical performance with only a slight price increase. Would that be enough for older buyers to select a Cadillac over a Chevrolet? Hell, what about the long-rumored Buick GN revival that's been batted around for years?

The market has changed. The Camaro has to change. It all boils down to GM committing to change in the face of a Mustang that's merely evolved, and a Challenger that just adds oodles of horsepower to an out-of-date chassis. Based on my visit to the Ren Cen this weekend, getting a full-face of GM culture, I'm leaning toward an unchanged Camaro future. The nameplate rules all.
 
The market has changed. The Camaro has to change. It all boils down to GM committing to change in the face of a Mustang that's merely evolved, and a Challenger that just adds oodles of horsepower to an out-of-date chassis. Based on my visit to the Ren Cen this weekend, getting a full-face of GM culture, I'm leaning toward an unchanged Camaro future. The nameplate rules all.

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Sniff. So beautiful...
 
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