6th Gen Chevrolet Camaro: 2017 ZL1, Z/28

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And it's better than the 07 Tacoma V6 with VVT I use to drive which on avg only got 17-18.
What cab configuration was it? And are you saying that as combined or freeway mileage? I know that my dad's LM7 (Iron block 5.3 LS) Silverado bested 18 at 70 mph on a 360 mile drive (95% of which was freeway), and the truck is an extended cab, short bed with four wheel drive (truck was in 2 wheel drive the whole trip).

I don't know the weight of the truck, but someone who had a GMT 800 in a similar configuration said that theirs weighed about 4,900 pounds. I don't know which engine that guy had in his, but I'll guess that my dad's 01 should weigh at 4,750-4,900 pounds.
 
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What cab configuration was it? And are you saying that as combined or freeway mileage? I know that my dad's LM7 (Iron block 5.3 LS) Silverado bested 18 at 70 mph on a 360 mile drive (95% of which was freeway), and the truck is an extended cab, short bed with four wheel drive (truck was in 2 wheel drive the whole trip).

I don't know the weight of the truck, but someone who had a GMT 800 in a similar configuration said that theirs weighed about 4,900 pounds. I don't know which engine that guy had in his, but I'll guess that my dad's 01 should weigh at 4,750-4,900 pounds.

It was a quad cab with the shorter bed, also it was a 4x4 so there is that. And yes that is combined I drove 10-12 miles out to the college I was going to at the time. The roads were county roads so there weren't many stop lights only 3 in that span for seven miles of the trip. It was that or take the free way instead which due to the set up would only allow me so far before I'd have to use more surface roads than I would want.
 
A few months ago in May I took a trip to Michigan in a '11 Ram 1500 Big Horn. Extended cab, short bed, 4WD with the tow package and we averaged 19 to 19.5. That was with the 5.7L. In the city he gets anywhere from 12-14.
 
A few months ago in May I took a trip to Michigan in a '11 Ram 1500 Big Horn. Extended cab, short bed, 4WD with the tow package and we averaged 19 to 19.5. That was with the 5.7L. In the city he gets anywhere from 12-14.

My mom was able to manage better in her 2007 (though a front strut is leaking and about to go out only after 40k miles) and got 16.4-16.7 on average in the City. As for the combined it was more toward 18 if I drove it and 20-21 if she did. It also supposedly had the 4 cylinder cut down during cruise speed or on trips but with it the avg never seemed to change, since you can watch it from the inside obviously.
 
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I think his truck has the 4 cyl shut off, but I'm not sure on that one. Regardless, trucks aren't getting anything what they are supposed to be.
 
and that Ram has more power than the LS in my dad's Silverado while still getting better mileage. Of course, the truck is getting incredible mileage right now since my dad is riding his Harley to work instead. :lol: Fifth gen Camaros can pull mid 20s with over a hundred more horsepower than the 295 hp LM7 in said truck. The fact that Fifth Gens can pull down mileage numbers similar to fourth gens despite having more power and being heavier is a testament to technological advancements in current engines. Of course, the older truck 5.3s (and 4th gen LS1s) didn't have active fuel management in 2001, but still. Engines have come a long way in a short period of time.
 
From GM Inside News:
2.0L Turbocharged I-4
3.6L LGX V6
6.2L LT1 V8
6.2L Supercharged LT4 V8

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f144/2016-camaro-planned-engine-line-up-170233/

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I tried looking into the dry weights for the LFX and LTG engines and I saw a few numbers but nothing official. All the numbers looked to be maybe a 20lb weight savings for the 2.0T. The LS3 V8 however, weighs almost 100 more pounds than the LFX V6.

Nothing against your assumptions, because, you're probably right. But, even GMI is missing a few things.

IF the new Camaro is based on the larger version of the Alpha chassis that underpins the Cadillac CTS, which according to C/D have the following curb weights:

CTS 2.0T: 3,731 lbs
CTS 3.6: 3,839 lbs
CTS 3.6T: 3,966 lbs

Those Cadillacs use the same powertrains (give/take) discussed on the post above, and don't exactly paint an entirely glorious picture of the weight situation for the Camaro. Granted, it is roughly a savings of 200 lbs compared to the current car (progress!), but its still about 100 lbs more than where we assume the Mustang will be. Of course, the Camaro won't be a full-size luxury sedan, and there stands to be a good chance that they may be able to save 5-7% on weight if the car's overall size is a good bit smaller - but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Again, I'll reiterate that I do not think that the corporate 2.0T is up to snuff to include on the Camaro if the Mustang will be released with a 300+ BHP version. Assuming the Camaro will be higher in weight, and lower in power, it completely undercuts any reason for having the engine there other than GM doing a tit-for-tat release on the car. At that rate, they may as well just stick that new diesel under the hood, "because reasons." I'm still assuming that GM is working on a turbocharged version of the 2.5L I4 that'll see duty in multiple vehicles, but, will probably be designed more for the crossovers than actual performance applications. Then again, we could just expect GM to pull a GM, and just leave the V6 unchanged at the bottom until Mustang sales shake out.

Because I'm a madman, I've re-adjusted my packaging on the new Camaro:

Base: 3.6L V6, 315 BHP - Mostly fleet sales, nothing particularly special. Take away the stick because no one bought it that way. Just the basics.

Rally Sport: 2.5T I4, 315 BHP - The optioned up version of the base model. Legitimately sporty suspension, available manual transmission - cheap fun to bring in younger buyers with nice visual add-ons that are somewhat of a throwback.

LT: 5.3L V8, 355 BHP - Entry-level V8 model, automatic-only, set up to be more of a cruiser than a bruiser. Think more along the lines of a poor man's Jaguar XK or Mercedes E-Class Coupe. Fuel economy should easily reach 30 MPG with cylinder deactivation and the eight-speed automatic. Has a more luxurious interior trim, and supplements the "need" for CTS Coupe in light of an ATS Coupe.

SS: 6.2L LT1 V8, 430 BHP - The bread-and-butter, headlining Camaro. Corvette powertrain, available 1LE suspension tune, but takes a page out of the Fiat-Chrysler book and offers a stripped out version in addition to another model that's more like the LT in terms of equipment. Make the Magnaride suspension standard on this model, and equip it with proper tires to beef up the sporting credentials.

Of course the only real missing model would be a Z/28, and in all honesty, I'd skip the supercharged LT4 V8 in favor of keeping the LS7 going. Its still too good of an engine to let die, and in a smaller and lighter Camaro, it could be a hell of a car if done right. Thing is, that assumes that GM would even want to let that happen depending on how good the ATS-V might be.

RE: Name for a Performance Sub-Camaro Model:

I think the only real answer is "Chevy III." The kids might not get it, but at the very least, its a name that stands out compared to anything else in the segment. If GM wants to make all the money, however, they'd just need to release a wagon version with a diesel, in brown. I mean, they want to succeed globally, right?
 
IF the new Camaro is based on the larger version of the Alpha chassis that underpins the Cadillac CTS, which according to C/D have the following curb weights:

CTS 2.0T: 3,731 lbs
CTS 3.6: 3,839 lbs
CTS 3.6T: 3,966 lbs
I agree that this chasis and those weights would be much too heavy for the Alpha Camaro. You are the first person I have seen mention using the CTS variant chasis as everyone else (including I) was assuming the Camaro would use the ATS frame. Definitely something to think about...

Again, I'll reiterate that I do not think that the corporate 2.0T is up to snuff to include on the Camaro if the Mustang will be released with a 300+ BHP version. Assuming the Camaro will be higher in weight, and lower in power, it completely undercuts any reason for having the engine there other than GM doing a tit-for-tat release on the car. At that rate, they may as well just stick that new diesel under the hood, "because reasons." I'm still assuming that GM is working on a turbocharged version of the 2.5L I4 that'll see duty in multiple vehicles, but, will probably be designed more for the crossovers than actual performance applications.

Ok a couple things here:
The 2.0T would not be directly competing with the Mustang's Ecoboost 2.3. A base model comparison of the cars would be the Ford 3.7 NA V6 vs the Camaro 2.0T. The second tier up would be the 2.3 I4 Ecoboost vs the Camaro 3.6 NA V6.

The last generation Mustang 3.7 V6 absolutely owned the Camaro's base 3.6 motor so I would imagine the base model test would still give the Mustang the advantage with it going up against a 2.0T for the Alpha Camaro.

We all know how car magazines work, so they will ultimately line-up the cars with the same number of cylinders for tests. Here is where that could get interesting however, as the new 2015 ATS 2.0T LTG puts out 272hp and 295lb/ft (a flat line from 1700-5500rpm) which could compete with the Ecoboost depending on the weight of the cars.

The question here is why make the turbo 4 from GM the base model? Marketing(our base Camaro is turbocharged with 300hp whereas the Mustang version costs more)? Cost-to-build? The GMI article listed the engine code for each engine except for the 2.0T, which means the ultimate 4 cylinder base engine could make even more power than it currently does. The LTG has won awards (for Ward's 10 Best Engines, I think) with 136hp per liter and almost 150lb/ft per liter achieving 21/31 mpg in 3400+ curb weight vehicles (put that engine in a 130R GM, WTH).

Then again, we could just expect GM to pull a GM, and just leave the V6 unchanged at the bottom until Mustang sales shake out.

The GMI links, especially the second one I posted, state that the Alpha Camaro would use the LGX 3.6 (not currently available) as opposed to the LFX currently used in the Camaro. The V6 will be changed but to what specs is the question. This will likely not be very different from the current motor (as in architecture) but it will need to be worthy of becoming an optional engine. That means the current power of the LFX at 323hp, 278lb/ft is not nearly enough.

If the GMI speculation is correct, GM is developing two new motors for the Camaro. In my opinion, the 2.0T in the base Camaro is meant for the young Transformers crowd and for Europe. The <3.0L displacement, mpg and weight of the car should make it an ideal American sports car for overseas markets. The Ecoboost Mustang is likely going to be right at $30,000 so if a turbo Camaro can be around 26-27k with similar performance they may be on to something.

I'm left thinking to myself, would I be opposed to getting a Cadillac ATS 2.0T 6-speed with a different nose and taillights for almost half the money? Easily low 14s in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 in under 6 seconds with maybe a 3400-3500 curb weight? I would take that.
 
Maybe GM simply realise that a turbo 4 is a means to an end and a naturally aspirated six is the more suitable engine?
 
I'm left thinking to myself, would I be opposed to getting a Cadillac ATS 2.0T 6-speed with a different nose and taillights for almost half the money? Easily low 14s in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 in under 6 seconds with maybe a 3400-3500 curb weight? I would take that.

Honestly, that's the whole problem - and what gives the greatest amount of credibility to GM putting the Camaro on the larger variant of the Alpha chassis. With the ATS Coupe about to hit the streets, if the Camaro was similarly sized with similar powertrains, why would anyone with any sense choose the Cadillac over the Chevrolet other than loose ideals of "luxury?" Even more circular, it goes back to whether or not the Code 130R is happening, and how much space needs to be between that and the Camaro for it to be a successful car.
 
Why not put the Camaro back in mothballs for a couple of years. They've proven before it's not sacred, so why pander to it now? Bench it, let the Nova III take the ball for a couple of years.
 
Spy pics.

CamaroZL1_cdauto_71714_01-sm.jpg
CamaroZL1_cdauto_71714_24-sm.jpg
CamaroZL1_cdauto_71714_07-sm.jpg
 
Because it's selling really well?

Indeed. The Camaro they canned wasn't the media darling and style icon the new one is. Whatever headaches it may cause in product planning for other GM products and brands, the Camaro is such a huge cash cow that it has to continue, anyway.
 
It looks like they've squished the current model down, nothing more. So it'll be even harder to see out of, and look even more cartoonish?

Way to go, GM.
 
"So they want to make backup cameras mandatory now? Let's make them wish they never did that."
 
Those are only body mules right ? That body looks similar to the current ones.
 
Those are only body mules right ? That body looks similar to the current ones.

Yeah they're mules it's obvious due to as you pointed out looking like current gens. They're hiding everything else
 
Yeah they're mules it's obvious due to as you pointed out looking like current gens. They're hiding everything else
So why does everyone keeps saying like they know how it look like ? With the low visibility stuff etc ?
 
So why does everyone keeps saying like they know how it look like ? With the low visibility stuff etc ?

Ask them not me, people are saying a lot of things because it's speculative at the moment. Don't take it to heart if you want this car to succeed, what they say wont change it either way.
 
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Ask them not me, people are saying a lot of things because it's speculative at the moment. Don't take it to heart if you want this car to succeed, what they say wont change it either way.
Nah, im just confused, i thought people already knew how the car will look like beyond those test mules haha
 
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Those front windows are very short. I don't have high hopes for increased visibility.
 
I don't care about the specs, this is one of GM's ugliest cars to date. :yuck:
 
Other than the fact it looks longer, you really can't tell much from what's going on there. I'm guessing they're doing what everyone does these days. Take the standard car, hack it to pieces, and stretch it over whatever they want to try.
 
Camaro.rd06.KGP.ed-3445762655-O-sm.jpg

Camaro.rd10.KGP.ed-3445763788-O-sm.jpg
Camaro.rd18.KGP.ed-3445765648-O-sm.jpg
 
Perhaps it's perspective, but the front car looks to either have a taller rear deck, or more likely an additional spoiler.
 
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