6th Gen Chevrolet Camaro: 2017 ZL1, Z/28

[88GTA]

Of course the renders look ugly. They're going for a retro-look of a generation that was about as aesthetically pretty as the turd generation.

Careful now...

 

[McLaren]

Careful now...

I don't have to be careful about anything. Third generation Camaros have that moniker for a reason. It was a less than stellar car, & turd gen. is an inner joke within' the Camaro community.

Only people with fascination for them get upset by that name.

 

[Badasp5.0]

It must have sold well because I see them all over the damn place

Yeah I see them all the time. Heck in the parking lot at my work on any weekday there is 2 or 3.

 

[88GTA]

I don't have to be careful about anything. Third generation Camaros have that moniker for a reason. It was a less than stellar car, & turd gen. is an inner joke within' the Camaro community.

Only people with fascination for them get upset by that name.

I think you mean only people who know nothing about them call them that name.

 

[Zenith]

I think you mean only people who know nothing about them call them that name.

Hmmm either the vast majority of the Camaro community is wrong about a Camaro... Or a guy who named himself after a third gen F-body who uses a third gen F-body as his profile pic is a bit biased towards third gen F-bodies...

 

[YSSMAN]

My brother had an '88 (?) Firebird hatchback, and good lord, that thing had the structural rigidity of a wet noodle. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be fun, or, wasn't fun... But a truly good car, it was not. Would that stop me from buying a Camaro or Firebird of similar vintage? Absolutely not. That bodystyle, those engines, they define a lot of what I like - its what I grew up around, and that's that.

 

[Zenith]

My brother had an '88 (?) Firebird hatchback, and good lord, that thing had the structural rigidity of a wet noodle. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be fun, or, wasn't fun... But a truly good car, it was not. Would that stop me from buying a Camaro or Firebird of similar vintage? Absolutely not. That bodystyle, those engines, they define a lot of what I like - its what I grew up around, and that's that.

A very 80's car indeed. I think the boxy looks have actually aged well in a world of creased and contoured passenger cars.

The performance? God help us. It was designed as a hard-top, but most sold were T-tops, so the chassis stiffness on most of the examples out there is pathetic.

The 305 engine itself was just horrible. The comparatively tiny bore size means that there are basically no decent head options for the engine, I know some people put Vortec truck heads onto it to get a bit more power. I think early models had this nasty habit of eating their own camshafts.

Possibly even worse than the 305 was the T5 transmission that it was mated to. The transmission was so weak that the 350ci option was only available in automatic since the 350 was far too powerful for the stick at an earth shatering 225hp. The GM 10-bolt axle wasn't very good either. At the time there was really nothing good about this car. It just didn't do anything well...

It's just a turd...

 

[McLaren]

I think you mean only people who know nothing about them call them that name.

You have an avatar of a car based from the third generation. Perhaps a rereading is in order.

Only people with fascination for them get upset by that name.

The irony in your post is that the only people who do call them that do know something about them because it's a joke within' that community.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/nw-indiana-south-chicago/680051-got-back-into-turd.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/racer-s-lounge/1193517-forza-3-has-turd-gen.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-members/1281082-come-turd-gen-folk-id-car-pegasus-motorcars.html

 

[88GTA]

You have an avatar of a car based from the third generation. Perhaps a rereading is in order.

The irony in your post is that the only people who do call them that do know something about them because it's a joke within' that community.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/nw-indiana-south-chicago/680051-got-back-into-turd.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/racer-s-lounge/1193517-forza-3-has-turd-gen.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-members/1281082-come-turd-gen-folk-id-car-pegasus-motorcars.html

I read what you said. My statement which you quoted, however, is also relevant to people "within' that community" who know nothing about the third generation F-body.

A very 80's car indeed. I think the boxy looks have actually aged well in a world of creased and contoured passenger cars.

The performance? God help us. It was designed as a hard-top, but most sold were T-tops, so the chassis stiffness on most of the examples out there is pathetic.

The 305 engine itself was just horrible. The comparatively tiny bore size means that there are basically no decent head options for the engine, I know some people put Vortec truck heads onto it to get a bit more power. I think early models had this nasty habit of eating their own camshafts.

Possibly even worse than the 305 was the T5 transmission that it was mated to. The transmission was so weak that the 350ci option was only available in automatic since the 350 was far too powerful for the stick at an earth shatering 225hp. The GM 10-bolt axle wasn't very good either. At the time there was really nothing good about this car. It just didn't do anything well...

It's just a turd...

Thank you for educating me about the third gen F-body. Do you honestly think the second generation smog drivetrains were better? Sidenote, the torque was actually the issue for the T5 (325+ lb/ft depending on model/year) with the 5.7L. I'll stop there.

My brother had an '88 (?) Firebird hatchback, and good lord, that thing had the structural rigidity of a wet noodle. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be fun, or, wasn't fun... But a truly good car, it was not. Would that stop me from buying a Camaro or Firebird of similar vintage? Absolutely not. That bodystyle, those engines, they define a lot of what I like - its what I grew up around, and that's that.

Your brother has good taste. V6 base model I'm assuming?

Many people, obviously myself included, grow to appreciate many of the things that surrounded us in our youth. Whether it is movies, TV, food, songs or in this case a particular car, they all leave a sense of nostalgia when we think back and made a significant impact on who we are today.

Hmmm either the vast majority of the Camaro community is wrong about a Camaro... Or a guy who named himself after a third gen F-body who uses a third gen F-body as his profile pic is a bit biased towards third gen F-bodies...

My defense of the third generation F-body is not just expressed in this forum and yes, the vast majority of the Camaro community is wrong in my opinion.

You guys can tell me how bad you think the third generation F-body car is all you want (and make valid points) but it won't change my opinion and I likely won't change yours. In an effort to circle back to my original statement (and the reason everything is in reverse order):

Careful now...

You asked for it.

 

[McLaren]

I read what you said. My statement which you quoted, however, is also relevant to people "within' that community" who know nothing about the third generation F-body.

So the majority of the Camaro community who poke fun at the third generation is wrong. My original post remains relevant:

Only people with fascination for them get upset by that name.

Which is you.

My defense of the third generation F-body is not just expressed in this forum and yes, the vast majority of the Camaro community is wrong in my opinion.

Again only because you have some sort of lust for them.

Only people with fascination for them get upset by that name.

Try reading the links posted. One of them actually bought another & still referred to it as such because it's a joke.

You asked for it.

Oh man, you sure told us. Some turd generation fan got butthurt over what I said because:

Only people with fascination for them get upset by that name.

 

[88GTA]

Hey man, I'm good if you are. 👍

As they say, don't knock it until you've tried it. Just because you've read it online doesn't mean it is the truth.

 

[McLaren]

Yeah ok, let me run out and get one for myself because you said so, & ignore everything else I've read from people who've owned or had experience with them.


Only an owner of a turd gen would make that kind of bold statement.

 

[88GTA]

My issue with the nickname is that it comes from 4th gen F-body owners who think the thirdgen is useless. During the 80's it was one of the best bang-for-your buck cars along with the Foxbody Mustang. We grew up in the 90's only hearing that 4th gens were so much better in reliability, gas mileage and performance (especially once the LS1 arrived in '98). The truth is that the third gens were some good cars in the '80s. They had (and still have I believe) the best coefficient of drag for an American car and Trans Ams were used on the salt flats for this reason. Their flip-up lights and lack of center mount foglights like the Camaro meant they were slightly better at those high speeds.

There is also a new trend going around that the LT1 4th gen is the new "turd gen." This is definitely reflected in the used car sales market where third generation F-bodies have gone up quickly the last few years. In a couple more years you'll be paying over $10k for a non-rusted '80s f-body just like 2nd generation cars were going for a few years ago.

 

[Zenith]

Hey man, I'm good if you are. 👍

As they say, don't knock it until you've tried it. Just because you've read it online doesn't mean it is the truth.

I'm knocking it, I've tried it. A friend had a T-top turd gen with a 305 and a manual. It might have been an IROC or a Z/28. I can't remember.

I can remember that it wallowed and understeered through every corner, the whole thing rattled and leaked, it wasn't fast under full throttle, and it didn't stop very well. It was honestly a fun car down to just how bad and white-trash it was.

Eventually the thing killed the crappy transmission and that was that.

My issue with the nickname is that it comes from 4th gen F-body owners who think the thirdgen is useless.

Except McLaren didn't call it useless, he called it ugly.

There is also a new trend going around that the LT1 4th gen is the new "turd gen." This is definitely reflected in the used car sales market where third generation F-bodies have gone up quickly the last few years. In a couple more years you'll be paying over $10k for a non-rusted '80s f-body just like 2nd generation cars were going for a few years ago.

Prices do not equal looks or good performance. The American classic car market buys all kinds of crappy cars for well above their nuts-n-bolts worth.

You are partially correct about the LT1 Fourth Gen. Having a Fourth Gen without an LS is like marrying Kim Kardashian after she's had a butt reduction surgery.

 

[McLaren]

The LT1 4th gen is a turd too. Difference is the third gens nickname is a play on words....

 

[88GTA]

 

[Pupik]

Okay, let's take a time out from the lowbrow comments.

After all, if the latest render is close to correct...may Pininfarina have mercy on us all.

 

[savage388]

I think all the renderings are way wrong based on all of them are just a hideous front end bolted to a fifth gen, why would they ever do that? That being said it should be smaller, the 5th gen is a pig and isnt too liked by the camaro enthusiasts/ community at this point. There's quite a few people that spend new camaro money for a nice stock 4th gen because the 5th gen isn't an f body so other than the retro styling it's not even a camaro. I'd really like to see something modern and aggressive, just like the 2nd and 3rd gens were when they came out.

As far as the "turd" gen issue, you love them enough to put up with
them, or you hate them becuase you think slow ugly redneck mobile, which just like an other car may or may not be true.

 

[YSSMAN]

There's quite a few people that spend new camaro money for a nice stock 4th gen because the 5th gen isn't an f body so other than the retro styling it's not even a camaro.

What? People are upset because the marketing department didn't just rename the Zeta chassis, "F-Body?" That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

Given the time, given what GM had on its plate, it was the right choice to go with. Aside from being far too heavy, the Zeta chassis was actually a pretty decent design, and has performed admirably these past few years. The Alpha chassis going beneath the next Camaro will be such a leap forward, it'd take quite a bit of nonsense to make it a "bad car."

And once again, let it echo from the mountain tops:

Put that damn 5.3L V8 in there, GM.

 

[savage388]

What? People are upset because the marketing department didn't just rename the Zeta chassis, "F-Body?" That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

Given the time, given what GM had on its plate, it was the right choice to go with. Aside from being far too heavy, the Zeta chassis was actually a pretty decent design, and has performed admirably these past few years. The Alpha chassis going beneath the next Camaro will be such a leap forward, it'd take quite a bit of nonsense to make it a "bad car."

And once again, let it echo from the mountain tops:

Put that damn 5.3L V8 in there, GM.

My point basically was that it's using a sedan chassis, not a bad one but it's not one purpose built for the car like the fbody chassis was, ( even though it was marginal at best) so it was a massive compromise in performance that never really satisfied anyone. the fbody chassis cars at least had a reputation for cheap speed, now the mustang has taken that crown though, so the zeta camaro only looks fast next to the challenger.
I'll agree with the 5.3 option, what gm needs is to give the people a v8 that's cheap, has plenty if power and still gets good mileage so it's practical. They'd sell millions.

 

[BKGlover]

Forgive me for asking, but was the F-chassis ever changed in the 35 years it was built? Weren't all pony cars known for "Cheap speed"? Isn't GM cheaper than dirt, looking for every way to stretch an investment until you can see through it, or until something goes wrong?

 

[Zenith]

Forgive me for asking, but was the F-chassis ever changed in the 35 years it was built? Weren't all pony cars known for "Cheap speed"? Isn't GM cheaper than dirt, looking for every way to stretch an investment until you can see through it, or until something goes wrong?

Uhh... No. That would ludicrous.

F-body refers to a set of models, not one chassis.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

I know this was posted over a month ago now but well done for finding a Firebird photo with my mums old blue horsebox in the background! 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

Forgive me for asking, but was the F-chassis ever changed in the 35 years it was built? Weren't all pony cars known for "Cheap speed"? Isn't GM cheaper than dirt, looking for every way to stretch an investment until you can see through it, or until something goes wrong?

There were changes, but it depends on the generation to get how much of a change there actually was out of each model. The first-generation F-Bodies were based heavily on the X-Body that underpinned cars like the Chevrolet Nova, but had some special stuff to separate it from the pack. The second-generation and third-generation revisions were largely clean sheet exercises, but carried over a lot of bits and pieces where they could to cut costs. However, the fourth-generation F-Body was largely just a revision of the third-generation chassis, which oddly enough, still seemed to be miles ahead of the Fox Body derivatives Ford was using at the time.

 

[Slash]

 

[catamount39]

 

[Slash]

A very 80's car indeed. I think the boxy looks have actually aged well in a world of creased and contoured passenger cars.

The performance? God help us. It was designed as a hard-top, but most sold were T-tops, so the chassis stiffness on most of the examples out there is pathetic.

The 305 engine itself was just horrible. The comparatively tiny bore size means that there are basically no decent head options for the engine, I know some people put Vortec truck heads onto it to get a bit more power. I think early models had this nasty habit of eating their own camshafts.

Possibly even worse than the 305 was the T5 transmission that it was mated to. The transmission was so weak that the 350ci option was only available in automatic since the 350 was far too powerful for the stick at an earth shatering 225hp. The GM 10-bolt axle wasn't very good either. At the time there was really nothing good about this car. It just didn't do anything well...

It's just a turd...

Amen to all of this. 305s are junk IMO, 10 bolts are horrendous...

eDIT:


Really liking the fastback roofline...

 

[AnthonyD1993]

The upper grill does bear a slight resemblance to a Pontiac grill on that mule.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Is it me, or is that mule HUGE!?

 

[Slash]

Is it me, or is that mule HUGE!?

I think it's big. Not giving me hope for a big weight reduction...

The upper grill does bear a slight resemblance to a Pontiac grill on that mule.

I was thinking the same thing. The roofline is definitely 70s reminiscent.