7th GTP F1 World Championship (F1 2010 edition) * SEASON FINISHED :'''( *

Great race report as always Shaggy, I like hearing about the battles up front.

Not sure if you gave PJ 0 points for qualifying because he disconnected, but if you go to 9:34 of my qualifying video, I checked the leaderboard when I pitted. At that time PJ had turned a 1:41:323, which would put him in sixth.

Btw, I'm out of town this Sunday and will be missing the race. I'm in for the last one, but will be with very little practice as I return on Saturday. Have a great race guys!
 
kcheeb
Great race report as always Shaggy, I like hearing about the battles up front.

Not sure if you gave PJ 0 points for qualifying because he disconnected, but if you go to 9:34 of my qualifying video, I checked the leaderboard when I pitted. At that time PJ had turned a 1:41:323, which would put him in sixth.

Btw, I'm out of town this Sunday and will be missing the race. I'm in for the last one, but will be with very little practice as I return on Saturday. Have a great race guys!
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Thanks for pointing that out, I failed to notice that - will update the tables accordingly.

Pity you're missing Interlagos as it's always a ball. See you for Abu Dhabi anyway.
 
Hey Lads, it pains me to do this but due to other commitments I am going to have to pull out of the championship for good, but I'm definitely up for F1 2011's online championship 👍 See you all then!

All the best,

Tom
 
Damn Tom, you never even got to race us with your G27. This sucks how many people aren't able to make the final rounds. I was hoping we'd have close to a full house for the last two races.
 
Shaggy Alonso
Damn Tom, you never even got to race us with your G27. This sucks how many people aren't able to make the final rounds. I was hoping we'd have close to a full house for the last two races.
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I'll see if I can pull some strings but I can't promise anything, however I'll surely be racing you in F1 2011?
 
Shaggy Alonso
This sucks how many people aren't able to make the final rounds. I was hoping we'd have close to a full house for the last two races.
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I really wanted to race Interlagos, but I'll be on a plane. Is it PSP compatible :)

Did some practice last night at Abu Dhabi, surprisingly enjoyed it. It was a circuit I had bad memories of from my career.
 
Think I will be okay for the Interlagos race, although have to admit I haven't managed to practice for that yet. From my brief involvement it's become painfully obvious that to be on the front runners pace, casual practice isn't really enough, the guys at the front have wrung every last tenth out of the track, which requires some considerable track time to do.

One thing I want to ask everyone is that on the one hand, this is a great championship for realistic settings, even down to manual pitting, yet everyone drives T cam view, which is plainly un-realistic, surely we should have everyone driving cockpit view to make it completely realistic, and similar to the conditions of real drivers? I know most casual players use T cam because it's a lot easier, but what I've found in other leagues is that if everyone has cockpit view, drivers are a lot more careful, and you don't get people making lap records every lap because they're more concerned with staying on the track, which actually makes for better racing for the whole field.

I'm not criticising this championship, it's just an observation, because everyone here looks to be skilled at the game enough to do without all the helps, cockpit view is the final piece in the puzzle for real authenticity, seems a shame not to use it because I think we have the drivers here to do it?
 
I think the cockpit view is far from the final part of the puzzle for this game the physics are not that good gt5s are much better as far as ps3 is concerned.i ve tryed cockpit view and it does NT feel right I use cockpit in other race Sims but for this in my opinion there are many reasons why I don't like it.these are just my views of course.i nearly gave up on this game 3or4 gp s ago because of the lack of feel I have with the cars ,but I love f1 so much I've stuck with it,eerrrrs to f1 2011.
 
pipeslice
I think the cockpit view is far from the final part of the puzzle for this game the physics are not that good gt5s are much better as far as ps3 is concerned.i ve tryed cockpit view and it does NT feel right I use cockpit in other race Sims but for this in my opinion there are many reasons why I don't like it.these are just my views of course.i nearly gave up on this game 3or4 gp s ago because of the lack of feel I have with the cars ,but I love f1 so much I've stuck with it,eerrrrs to f1 2011.
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See, for me, after you stick with cockpit view for a while, i find that it feels natural and i have no problems once i know the track. T cam view feels really unnatural and i suppose it is really because drivers don't drive from up there do they?!

Take your point about the physics, although i've never really compared it to GT5, there's always room for improvement of course.
 
I've always raced with T-cam view because it's always been my favourite view. Though the cockpit view in F1 2010 is genuinely amazing, feels so much faster and more immersive. However, I find it hard choosing a view that I know slows me down half a second a lap and makes it considerably harder to drive. I would possibly be up for cockpit view races if there was a way restricting everyone to it like you can with the assists for example.
 
Brazil, not a track I like, but in practice with Shaggy last week, I was little less than a second slower, with room for improvement. His setup advice has helped me a lot, it'd have gotten me a much better result at Korea if I didn't throw it away getting brake bias wrong.

Maybe a podium? :dopey:
 
Shaggy Alonso
I've always raced with T-cam view because it's always been my favourite view. Though the cockpit view in F1 2010 is genuinely amazing, feels so much faster and more immersive. However, I find it hard choosing a view that I know slows me down half a second a lap and makes it considerably harder to drive. I would possibly be up for cockpit view races if there was a way restricting everyone to it like you can with the assists for example.
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I use cockpit view all the time in F1 2010, I find it interesting you say you find the T-cam view is half a second faster for you. In GT5 I noticed a lot use the camera that you see nothing off the car, I used cockpit view for competitions such as GT Academy so maybe I need to try different views as it could make me a few tenths quicker but I don't know how that will work. I know you can see more but still how will that result to lap time that is significant as you can't see the movement of the car as well.

Shame I'm missing the Interlagos race, brings good memories as that was my first win in the time trial championship where I managed to overcome like a second deficit and win the event.
 
T-cam view or bonnet/roof cameras are better for racing generally as well as being easier to drive. You can see much more of your immediate surroundings and you can see exactly where your wheels are position in relation to the track.

The only view better for side-by-side racing is of course the chase camera, but this camera is too far back to drive effeciently with, to me at least it always feels like I'm reacting to what is happening, rather being able to see it coming.

I personally feel the T-cam is a nice middle ground for being able to drive the car and see+race side by side with people.

I've never liked cockpit cameras a whole lot for competitive racing in any video game because it hides so much of the viewing area - this isn't "realistic" at all. In real life I can see much more than I can with the relative viewing fields. You have to remember that in reality I don't just see dead-ahead of me but I also have my peripheral vision and everything is much bigger. In the game, you only have a dead-ahead view and its only a small portion of your real-world vision (by virtue of staring at a TV screen, it can only be as big as the screen...never as big as your full vision).

There are some things about video games that are necessary to overcome the things we lack - namely peripheral vision, feedback and sound. If we wanted, we could play racing games with no laptimes or positions displayed on the screen and everything conveyed through in-game pit boards and pit radio. But it would be very difficult to read pit boards and very expensive to record the amount of pit radio required - its more fun to play the game with these "unrealistic" assets to make up for this.

There is a whole load of things that are "unrealistic" in racing games but at the end of the day we are here to have fun and to have an experience with the least amount of difficulty and/or stress. I see T-cams, bonnet cams, roof cams and bumper cams as ways of maximising the viewing area so you can still enjoy driving. When you start taking up 50% or more of the screen with cockpits and graphics that you rarely ever look at when driving, its obviously going to make it more difficult to drive..even more difficult than in reality.
 
Shaggy Alonso
I've always raced with T-cam view because it's always been my favourite view. Though the cockpit view in F1 2010 is genuinely amazing, feels so much faster and more immersive. However, I find it hard choosing a view that I know slows me down half a second a lap and makes it considerably harder to drive. I would possibly be up for cockpit view races if there was a way restricting everyone to it like you can with the assists for example.
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You nailed it right there shaggy with having to choose which is faster. It's not so much a case as cockpit slows you down, the fact is, T cam enables you to go a bit quicker because you can anticipate the limits better because you can see higher up. I have no doubt that real F1 drivers would also go quicker if they had that view rather than the limitations of cockpit view.

But I'm talking about using cockpit view for racing against other people, clearly players will always select the easiest view for doing time trial laps etc for their fastest recorded laps and what not.

I was in a conversation with one of the developers of F12010 a while back, and i did point out that a lot of guys who want to use cockpit view can't because you need to be able to force it as a lobby condition otherwise it isn't level competition, and he agreed, although i haven't seen any evidence of them implementing that in the new game.

If you go back to the original geoff crammond grand prix games, the player had no choice but to drive cockpit because it was the only view. Adding all these exterior views in the more recent games is in my view, dumbing it down.

On the one hand, they want to cater for more serious sim racers by making it fairly realistic with all settings off, but that is seriously compromised by allowing the driver to make it easy by viewing outside the car!
 
saidur_ali
I use cockpit view all the time in F1 2010, I find it interesting you say you find the T-cam view is half a second faster for you. In GT5 I noticed a lot use the camera that you see nothing off the car, I used cockpit view for competitions such as GT Academy so maybe I need to try different views as it could make me a few tenths quicker but I don't know how that will work. I know you can see more but still how will that result to lap time that is significant as you can't see the movement of the car as well.
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As shaggy mentioned in his last post, the exterior views are definitely quicker which forces everyone to use it, by and large, unfortunately.

I always use cockpit view in GT5 regardless because the racing is usually a fair bit slower than F1 so the time loss isn't as critical, but with F1 you really have to use what everyone else is using.

I actually raced the suzuka race in this championship in cockpit view but seeing how fast some of the lap times were, it's impossible to continue with that. One of the really big advantages of T cam is that it allows players an extra degree of accuracy also which is much more difficult to judge in the cockpit view, but makes for more exciting racing too
 
Ardius
I've never liked cockpit cameras a whole lot for competitive racing in any video game because it hides so much of the viewing area - this isn't "realistic" at all. In real life I can see much more than I can with the relative viewing fields. You have to remember that in reality I don't just see dead-ahead of me but I also have my peripheral vision and everything is much bigger. In the game, you only have a dead-ahead view and its only a small portion of your real-world vision (by virtue of staring at a TV screen, it can only be as big as the screen...never as big as your full vision).

/QUOTE]

Cannot agree with any of this at all! Yes of course we don't have peripheral vision in driving games but if you have ever driven a single seater with a crash helmet on, strapped in to a seat, you will know that you also don't get a very good field of vision except ahead. the use of mirrors is the only thing that gives you an idea of what else is happening, so it is in fact, very realistic.

the whole idea behind being a skilled driver is to deal with all those restrictions and still get it right...

For sure if you want an easy and enjoyable no stress gaming experience, you use the easiest view - and settings presumably? But this thread is about competitive racing against other folk, with as realistic setting as possible isn't it? I wouldn't have mentioned it if this was a no stress, easy settings racing league for non skilled drivers.
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Hi guys,

interesting discussion about the camera-views. Its not true that the realistic cockpit view is slower. I can drive the same times without problems. Perhaps for people who are unused to it, braking points and hitting apexes will need a little bit more of training.
The overview (around the car) is far more difficult in cockpit view. Restricting the Cockpit views in lobbies is a good idea without question.
Here was one argument that real f1 pilots would go faster with other camera angels. this is not true at all.

See you this evening

Best regards

DarkPSI
 
Really angry. When the rain started I made two pit stops, both for slicks.:banghead:

After, I had to go cause we were running late.:(
 
Well another joke of a week for me.
In the week i had gambled on a dry qualy and race so my setup was for this.
First qualy i made some good pace and managed pole.
After a few race restarts the last one showed posible rain,so i had nt practiced in the rain so kept mysetup for dry and started on primes as to change to wets later.
First part of the race was ok darkpsi was very close behind,but after settling down i managed to pull out a gap.but when the rain came shaggys pace was deffinitly faster and he was catching,i was struggling to be honest.anyway this next bit has pushed me to far,shaggy and i both pitted i was atleast half a second in front and got in the box before him and had my tyres changed before him,my stop was very good no mistakes yet when i pulled out shaggy was released before me,now i never made one mistake in the pits can someone please explain this cause by the pit exit he was over a second up.
anyway shaggy was now right behind darkpsi who was now in first.i slowly caught both but i think shaggy was faster in the wet,but darkpsi is very good at defending.i think shaggy hit dark and pushed him off so he waited and i passed them for first place.i managed to stay there for quite a while but the car was unbelievably slippery i was making loads of mistakes,and shaggy was eating up the seconds as a result.next shaggy pitted and i stayed out,but i only had 2yellow tyres on the front so i could stay out,but yet again for some reason the car would not stay on the track i could nt even go round any corner without going off,now for only 2 yellow tyres i just could nt understand this.and because of this darkpsi was now right behind me so i pitted for wets,and guess what the crew put options on my car,and that was it cause you cant even accelerate in the wet with these,and as soon as i got out the pits the car span onto the grass and gave me a punchure.so i called it a day.i cant even remember how many of my races this year have been ruined by bugs with this game,but i really have had enough.shaggys pace in the wet was very fast but for me, the first pit stop with him let out before me then having unusual slip with tyres then given option tyres and then a punchure is beyond a joke.im srry if ive come over negative but to be at shaggys and darks pace i have to take it quite seriously and these bug issues i keep having have finally got me.
 
Paulzx
Ardius
I've never liked cockpit cameras a whole lot for competitive racing in any video game because it hides so much of the viewing area - this isn't "realistic" at all. In real life I can see much more than I can with the relative viewing fields. You have to remember that in reality I don't just see dead-ahead of me but I also have my peripheral vision and everything is much bigger. In the game, you only have a dead-ahead view and its only a small portion of your real-world vision (by virtue of staring at a TV screen, it can only be as big as the screen...never as big as your full vision).
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Cannot agree with any of this at all! Yes of course we don't have peripheral vision in driving games but if you have ever driven a single seater with a crash helmet on, strapped in to a seat, you will know that you also don't get a very good field of vision except ahead. the use of mirrors is the only thing that gives you an idea of what else is happening, so it is in fact, very realistic.

the whole idea behind being a skilled driver is to deal with all those restrictions and still get it right...

For sure if you want an easy and enjoyable no stress gaming experience, you use the easiest view - and settings presumably? But this thread is about competitive racing against other folk, with as realistic setting as possible isn't it? I wouldn't have mentioned it if this was a no stress, easy settings racing league for non skilled drivers.
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Funnily enough, yes I have driven a real single seater. And I have also driven the real Nurburgring (which was why I missed the Suzuka race). So I think I have a better range of experience than most people.

And yes, with a crash helmet on and with tiny mirrors you can see much, much more than you can in a video game with a 50 inch TV or whatever. Not only that but you can feel more and hear more. You and I and pretty much anyone can jump in a single seater and drive much more easily than someone new to video games jumping on F1 2010 or whatever. (ok sure, the fact that one is real so people are more careful plays into it, but the concepts and sheer amount of difference in feedback make one more natural than the other).
Even with the shake of the car and the intense vibration you get at high speed in single seaters, you can see more because your brain compensates for it. If we put a shaking camerain games and films, we cannot compensate for it, because its artificial shaking. This just one of many reasons why such visual effects do not, in my opinion, make games "more realistic".

I can only see forcing everyone to use the cockpit view leading to more contact between people, perhaps most of us would learn to deal with the reduced visibility but increasing the blind spots is going to make avoiding contact more challenging. I'm not sure this is the kind of challenge I'm really looking for playing any driving game. Its already bad enough driving online against people who don't even use their rear view mirror or just try to punt without care.

Its all opinion, but trust me, I can see more in a crash helmet than a TV screen's size..and not only that but feel more too.



Anyway, back to the reason I've come on here to post:

I'm still not at all happy with the end of the race tonight. I had a lot of fun scrapping with my teammate Baumi throughout the race as conditions got worse and worse. But on the second to last-lap while I was side-by-side with Baumi into turn 10, something happened which has happened to me at least 5 or 6 times now since the start of the Korean race.

I'm normally pretty forgiving with race incidents as I more than understand little braking errors and lag issues, most of the time people wait too. But when the same person repeatedly takes me out the exact same way and never waits or apologises...even I have limits. Its to the point now where I'm wondering whether I'm going to be punted again when this particular driver appears in my mirrors, its not funny when it happens shortly after thinking this.
I have a hard time believing this is simply a lag issue, especially as the person in question has always seemed to have a fairly stable connection and that I have rarely if ever done the same kind of incident to them. Not just that but also even with lag it would be pretty unusual to assume a person you've just braked behind flies onto the grass or spins out in the braking zone has simply made a mistake - especially multiple times.

Its a shame I've had to say this and its a shame it brought an end to my excellent fight with Baumi. I have a hard time convincing myself to race online again with certain people if this happens one more time. Its just not fun to be driving wondering whether people are going to hit you off and hence trying to brake later just to avoid it.
 
Well, that was an eventful night to say the least - problematic in many ways and certainly not everyone enjoyed themselves for various different reasons. It's worth saying sorry to Paulzx, I would have just started the race had I known you were tight on time, you should have said. Sorry about this anyway, and I hope it doesn't put you off our season finale next week 👍

For myself though, this race was just fantastic, a real roller coaster and an immense battle with DarkPSI and Pipeslice, with Dark coming out the worthy winner in the end. Such a pity none of us could record it because i'd love to rewatch that.

Congrats to Dark on the win, he's won the two most exciting races of the season (Bahrain and Brazil) 👍
 
wow, sounds like a lot of action, good and bad, sorry I missed it.

Pipe, could it have been your entry into the pits was slower??? Just asking, would hate to not have you in the last race! You'd be missed.
 
Ardius
Funnily enough, yes I have driven a real single seater. And I have also driven the real Nurburgring (which was why I missed the Suzuka race). So I think I have a better range of experience than most people.

And yes, with a crash helmet on and with tiny mirrors you can see much, much more than you can in a video game with a 50 inch TV or whatever. Not only that but you can feel more and hear more. You and I and pretty much anyone can jump in a single seater and drive much more easily than someone new to video games jumping on F1 2010 or whatever. (ok sure, the fact that one is real so people are more careful plays into it, but the concepts and sheer amount of difference in feedback make one more natural than the other).
Even with the shake of the car and the intense vibration you get at high speed in single seaters, you can see more because your brain compensates for it. If we put a shaking camerain games and films, we cannot compensate for it, because its artificial shaking. This just one of many reasons why such visual effects do not, in my opinion, make games "more realistic".

I can only see forcing everyone to use the cockpit view leading to more contact between people, perhaps most of us would learn to deal with the reduced visibility but increasing the blind spots is going to make avoiding contact more challenging. I'm not sure this is the kind of challenge I'm really looking for playing any driving game. Its already bad enough driving online against people who don't even use their rear view mirror or just try to punt without care.

Its all opinion, but trust me, I can see more in a crash helmet than a TV screen's size..and not only that but feel more too.



Anyway, back to the reason I've come on here to post:

I'm still not at all happy with the end of the race tonight. I had a lot of fun scrapping with my ateammate Baumi throughout the race as conditions got worse and worse. But on the second to last-lap while I was side-by-side with Baumi into turn 10, something happened which has happened to me at least 5 or 6 times now since the start of the Korean race.

I'm normally pretty forgiving with race incidents as I more than understand little braking errors and lag issues, most of the time people wait too. But when the same person repeatedly takes me out the exact same way and never waits or apologises...even I have limits. Its to the point now where I'm wondering whether I'm going to be punted again when this particular driver appears in my mirrors, its not funny when it happens shortly after thinking this.
I have a hard time believing this is simply a lag issue, especially as the person in question has always seemed to have a fairly stable connection and that I have rarely if ever done the same kind of incident to them. Not just that but also even with lag it would be pretty unusual to assume a person you've just braked behind flies onto the grass or spins out in the braking zone has simply made a mistake - especially multiple times.

Its a shame I've had to say this and its a shame it brought an end to my excellent fight with Baumi. I have a hard time convincing myself to race online again with certain people if this happens one more time. Its just not fun to be driving wondering whether people are going to hit you off and hence trying to brake later just to avoid it.
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Ardius, I'm very sorry for any inconvenience I caused you tonight. My internet connection has a long history of not being one of the best, so most bumps you may have felt from me were not actually me at all, but I admit to hitting you under braking at least once. I don't want you to hold a grudge against me for this, I'm not a dirty racer, I don't intentionally hit anyone.

Ill take utmost care to make sure this doesn't happen again. Sorry guys.
 
kcheeb
wow, sounds like a lot of action, good and bad, sorry I missed it.

Pipe, could it have been your entry into the pits was slower??? Just asking, would hate to not have you in the last race! You'd be missed.
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no its not that,I got into the box and had my tyres already off before shaggy was in his box,I'm still completely in the dark about it.i went in before got all my stuff changed before and I was released after him.
 
Sounds like it was a great race, I'll try my best to make Abu Dhabi, just wondering if you're organising the 8th GTP F1 Championship with F1 2011 Shaggy?
 
pipeslice
no its not that,I got into the box and had my tyres already off before shaggy was in his box,I'm still completely in the dark about it.i went in before got all my stuff changed before and I was released after him.
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I'd been practicing offline in the Red Bull (your car) and I noticed the pitstops were always slow, even when the engineer tells you it was a perfect stop, regularly over 5 seconds. I think my stop was just under 4 seconds last night. It could be some stupid thing with the game where it's scripted that McLaren get a faster pit-stop at Interlagos, and that the 'randomness' of it is just an illusion. Hope they fix that for 2011

tombrooks97
Sounds like it was a great race, I'll try my best to make Abu Dhabi, just wondering if you're organising the 8th GTP F1 Championship with F1 2011 Shaggy?
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I'm not organising the 8th championship Tom. I think Ardius said he would be tempted though.
 
Peter.
Ardius, I'm very sorry for any inconvenience I caused you tonight. My internet connection has a long history of not being one of the best, so most bumps you may have felt from me were not actually me at all, but I admit to hitting you under braking at least once. I don't want you to hold a grudge against me for this, I'm not a dirty racer, I don't intentionally hit anyone.

Ill take utmost care to make sure this doesn't happen again. Sorry guys.
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I guess it's not the contact that is annoying so much as the not waiting. I'd most likely put it down to lag as well, but we need to be careful and aware of what's going on around us. Last night for example I did a move on DarkPSI which I thought was clean but I noticed he went off the road so I asked if we made contact and when he said yes I let him back through - i'd expect this of everyone.
 

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