85th Running Of The 24 Hours Of Le Mans, 17-18 June 2017Sports Cars 

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8,867
Denmark
Denmark
Is there any proof that Toyota's clutch died because of the situation caused by the enthusiastic LMP2 driver? I keep thinking that Toyota might have been a little creative in placing the blame because it's more convenient for them.

I also dont like how GTE is being run. Why should Ford and Porsche bother building new cars when Aston's dinosaur is given all sorts of power increases and weight breaks to keep up with them? Remember when older LMP cars were grandfathered into new rule sets? Well you were always punished for using an older car. Less fuel capacity etc etc. People bringing newer, faster cars should not be punished so old timey cars can keep up.

GTE feels like a NASCAR race. Nobody is allowed to have an advantage. Who really wants that in sportscars? Yes the racing is close, but thats because its manufactured to be that way. I think its OK for someone to be faster, or have better fuel mileage. If this is GTE Pro, where all the big manufacturers are supporting the teams, then they need to man up and stop relying on BOP. Build a car that is better then the competition. Im OK with 1 team running off into the distance and dominating.

BOP also creates the silly sandbagging issue.

I agree that GTE shouldn't be subject to BoP.
 
9,038
United States
Murica
BasedAckbar
Speaking of BOP, no one is really talking about the fact that the ACO's computer generated BOP will now be in play. Will the GTE teams finally just drop the act and go all out, or will they somehow collectively do a DDOS attack on the ACO?
 

Clark

I miss my daughter.
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8,152
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Drayton Bassett, North Warwickshire
Duffers999
Clark Duffy
If GTE didn't have BoP it'd be like late 90's GT1 which would seem great for s year or two but then somebody would streamroller it one year and then everybody else would leave.
 
9,401
Australia
Western Sydney
mustafur
If GTE didn't have BoP it'd be like late 90's GT1 which would seem great for s year or two but then somebody would streamroller it one year and then everybody else would leave.
Atleast then it would have a point, I'm not a fan of catchup races myself.
 

JayOTT

(Banned)
581
Australia
Australia
Ott2-gt
I'd be in favour of removing the BoP in the GTE class, as long as they didn't make development too much of a free for all and kept some areas spec to keep costs in check. The old Super Touring cars that the BTCC used in the 90's struck a good balance between keeping the competition close whilst letting innovation be rewarded, and it's just a shame it became unsustainable at the turn of the millennium.

Those who like the BoP system would still have GT3 (though that category has problems of it's own right now coughBlancpainStewardscough).
 
9,401
Australia
Western Sydney
mustafur
The problem with that is Super Touring had BoP and the costs went out of control, but it was epic while it lasted.
 

JayOTT

(Banned)
581
Australia
Australia
Ott2-gt
I'm just going off of what I've read about the subject rather than personal memory since I was too young at the time. But I was under the impression that any BoP that existed in Super Touring was less strict than it is in modern GTE and GT3.

Just as an example, the 4WD Audi A4 driven by Frank Biela easily won the 1996 BTCC with only minor weight penalties applied throughout the season, and it was only in 1997 that the foot was put down and major weight penalties were given to Audi. Which then allowed Alain Menu in the Renault Laguna to dominate 1997, and parity wasn't truly regained at the pointy end until 1998.
 
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11,486
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
GTE doesn't need BoP. It just needs to comply with the technical regulations with NO waivers.

Oh and Hour 9 is now available to watch again on the WEC website and the App.
 
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3,264
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Salt Lake City,
Is there any proof that Toyota's clutch died because of the situation caused by the enthusiastic LMP2 driver? I keep thinking that Toyota might have been a little creative in placing the blame because it's more convenient for them.
Why lie about it when there's footage? He went after the 'fake marshal' gave him the thumbs up.
 
8,867
Denmark
Denmark
Why lie about it when there's footage? He went after the 'fake marshal' gave him the thumbs up.

My point was that the footage may have inspired Toyota to give the explanation they did. What if Kobayashi's reaction to the fake marshall was repeated 100 times? Would we end up with more than 90 broken clutches then?
 
11,486
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
My point was that the footage may have inspired Toyota to give the explanation they did. What if Kobayashi's reaction to the fake marshall was repeated 100 times? Would we end up with more than 90 broken clutches then?
Why would they make something up like that? There is NOTHING to hide. It's an endurance race. Things can and will go wrong during them.

Driver are TOLD to take direct marshal instructions over and above electronic signals.

The greatest load on a clutch is starting. It's the reason given for World Touring Car races have one standing start and one rolling start. They don't trust the clutch to last two standing starts.
 
8,867
Denmark
Denmark
Why would they make something up like that? There is NOTHING to hide. It's an endurance race. Things can and will go wrong during them.

I'm not accusing Toyota of lying. I was just wondering if they jumped to conclusions that don't involve faults of their own.

The greatest load on a clutch is starting. It's the reason given for World Touring Car races have one standing start and one rolling start. They don't trust the clutch to last two standing starts.

I'll take this as an answer to my previous question. I wasn't aware that the technology used is so extremely fragile.
 
11,486
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
I'm not accusing Toyota of lying. I was just wondering if they jumped to conclusions that don't involve faults of their own.



I'll take this as an answer to my previous question. I wasn't aware that the technology used is so extremely fragile.
The Toyota team have the data on the car. Loads of it. Across multiple personnel and multiple screens. That was part of the problem with the #8. The driver reported a problem but the team couldn't see anything in data. If any of them had looked up at the TV they would have seen smoke coming out of the back of the car.

It's not that the clutch is weak as such, it's the load that goes through it and also cutting back as much weight from everything possible to make the car as light as you can.
 
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