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Discussion in 'GT5:P Car Tuning' started by 888 Tuning, Apr 29, 2008.
Again? It's all good, just don't forget that Touge 600 PP lap time I was after.
Speaking of where is your 600PP tune for the Touge? I hope your not waiting on my laptime before you release it ?
Mebbe, or mebbe I have been busy every night since I made it. I should get on that right now actually. I have some time. Probably be out tomorrow after we get the picture done.
Hey Mr 888
gave a try to a bunch or your settings and they are amazing... they make the car feel so smotth and easy to drive...
I have a crazy car that I would like to improve, the lotus elise 111r tuned, or the other lotus elise tuned... both cars are amazingly light but lacking power, since i saw you did miracles with the clio... gues that one should be accessible... and I haven't seen anything for the amuse s2000 in the thread, you have something to suggest ?
Evolution of a legend
The Skyline GT-R is synonymous with Japanese performance. The very name conjures up images of late night gatherings of hard charging street cars in downtown Tokyo as the glimmer of a thousand neon’s dance across the aggressive flanks of the car that has become one of motor sports best known icons.
Initially a Japan only offering until in 1991 a small number of exports were sent to Australia. Poor sales meant it was never to return, yet throughout the world, and more importantly via the magic and success of a simple video game, the Skyline GT-R caught the attention of motoring enthusiasts everywhere and became a cult classic.
In the most recent of years Nissan has rebirthed the GT-R with a totally rebuilt vehicle. Interestingly enough their target is pointed squarely at the German performance icon, Porsche and the Ring Record which stands as the ultimate accolade for the performance car.
To get to where the GT-R is today I wanted to take a look at where the GT-R has most recently come from, how it has evolved and why this car has been the car of choice amongst the local tuning houses such as Amuse and Mines.
With this in mind I recently took a trip to Fuji Speedway where I had managed to line up a handful of GT-R's and secured some time at a sensational track in the shadow of the famed Mt Fuji.
Upon arrival I was greeted with the usual courtesies and taken through a run down of the days activities. In the background I could hear that distinctive wail of the RB26DETT being warmed up, yet I could also hear something that sounded like it was tuned a fair bit harder than normal, very tasty indeed.
My contact had said he would have the R34 GT-R, and R35 on hand for some comparisons and possibly some additional surprises.
The allocation was 5 laps in each car where 1st lap was an outlap, 2nd lap was a sighting lap to get some feel for the car and the remaining 3 laps were timed hot laps. I don’t consider myself a “Schuey” but a reasonably solid consistent driver. I wasn’t out to set lap records but simply push these cars as far as I was comfortable with and find out what makes them so good.
R34 GT-R V-Spec II Nur
We conclude the drivers briefing and I suit up then head down to the pit area. The round tail lights, spoiler and boxy ass is an instant give away to the R34 sitting at idle waiting to go. The body kit and badge tells me this is the V-Spec II (Nur) model.
Upgrades over the standard spec included an aero kit, brake ventilation ducts a rear diffuser and a ducted carbon fibre bonnet. A stiffer lower ride and larger brake discs hinted towards the performance focus of this model. Even with the addition of the ATTESA E-TS pro system they managed to shave the weight down by around 60kg over the standard GT-R.
The R34 GT-R used a silky smooth 2.6 litre twin turbo in-line 6. The official advertised power figure was 205kW, however unofficially the power figures from reputable Dyno's was higher than this, up around the 250kW.
While I don’t expect the R34 to be able to match the R35, my goal here is to understand the roots where the R35 came from and to see if this same ethos that made this car so fast has been carried forward into the new car.
As I hit pit lane exit and plant the right foot, the rush of torque as the twin turbos spool, pins me in the seat and brings a smile to my face.
That familiar howl is every bit as good as I remember.
The car feels well balanced, though the weight definitely makes its presence felt with some understeer when you start pushing in to corners too hard. The AWD is of some benefit here but it needs some balance, get on the gas too hard too early and it will want to understeer, mind you once you are past the apex it’s a different story.
The brakes did an ok job of washing speed off with the car feeling stable and holding its line nicely. Where the AWD really comes into its own is being able to get on the gas early when exiting a corner. It hooks up well on standard tyres and produces some easily controlled rear wheel steering moments. This is a little contrary to standard AWD's which tend to just want to understeer on throttle through corners and this is one of the traits that makes this car so successful.
The ATTESA system works well and really lets you concentrate on getting through the corner fast.
The engine is superb though begs for some better breathing to release that top end.
The car is starting to feel its age a little but has a fantastically planted feel and is an easy car to drive fast as was indicated by the consistent lap times the car was able to produce.
No real surprises just a solid well performing balanced car and I can understand how this car with some tuning could be an incredibly potent weapon.
Turn in: 54/100
Corner Exit: 66/100
Top Speed: 236kph
Lap Time1: 2:05.812
Lap Time2: 2:05.952
Lap Time3: 2:05.574
After a handful of laps I'm waved in. Back in pit lane and I write some notes down about the car and I hear that hard tuned engine again. The sound grows as another R34 GT-R rolls into the garage beside me. I have already stopped as I read the 5 letters on the side of the car "MINES"
Mines R34 GT-R
Mines is a Japanese tuning house with a simple ethos. Make it fast, make it driveable. They don’t go in for large flashy visual customisations, leaving that up to the customer. What they do well is performance.
The R34 GT-R comes with "only" 205kW but the engine is bullet proof and is easily capable of producing double this figure and a whole lot more. Combined with a sensational AWD system, an incredibly well built chassis that ensured solid handling and this car became an instant easy choice for local tuners. As the cult status of this car grew, locally, from the initial days of the R32 so has the development from the tuning garages such as HKS, Blitz, Amuse and Mines.
Their current R34 Demo car is powered by the MINE'S Stage-II RB26DETT engine. It is based on the OEM Nissan RB26 N1 block, but it is further strengthened and balanced. The cylinder head is modified to flow the air, fuel, and exhaust more efficiently. Moving parts were lightened where they could be, and rotating parts were balanced. On the R34 N1 demo car, the engine is equipped with two HKS GT2530 turbochargers.
In some cases they demonstrate the car at 470kW (this is the highest level of power the GT2530 turbochargers can support) though it is usually demonstrated running at 440kW which is what I will be driving here today.
Weight loss, Brakes, suspension and revised final drive over the standard V-Spec, round out this package and I cant wait to get in.
From the moment you put the foot down in the Mines, you can feel, hear and sense the development work that has gone into the engine. It breathes and revs so freely. The needle slams into redline through every gear and with 440kW on tap this car demands some respect.
To say it feels fast is an understatement. Its scary fast, but the boys at Mines have done a sensational job in putting this car together, and the package extends well beyond a few simple engine mods. The brakes and suspension make the standard R34 feel sloppy and heavy in comparison.
The car goes where it’s pointed and holds its line. Feeding the power on out of corners is glorious as the car simply digs its tyres into the tarmac and tears its way out of the corner the wail from that engine feeding your adrenaline and crying for you to push your foot deeper into the firewall.
I was expecting a difference between the standard R34 and the Mines, but the difference here is huge. I could play in this car all day. It just begs to be driven hard, always asking for just a little more and yet always feeling in control.
The AWD system does a sensational job of getting all those horsies to the ground, but if pushed too hard you will find yourself in a Torvil and Dean moment as the cars momentum finally overcomes the traction available.
So this is it. This is the pinnacle of the R34 development. Sure there are tunes out there pushing out massive amounts of power, but as a complete package this car is king. I was looking for areas that could be improved but to be honest I couldn’t find any real flaws with this car.
It’s angry yet inviting, it turns in like a car half its size and will exit a corner like no RWD can. If I had stumped the money for an R34 then the Mines tune would have to be a mandatory addition to realize the full potential of this car.
Turn in: 79/100
Corner grip: 75/10
Corner Exit: 81/100
Top Speed: 288kph
There has been so much written about this car already so I wont go into too much depth around its history and development. The evolution of the GT-R from the R32 to the R34 was a gradual change with each model building on the previous yet still retaining the basic fundamentals of the previous car. That all ended with the R34.
The R35 was completely redesigned from the ground up. Yet even still they stayed true to a few key principles that made the previous iterations of the GT-R so successful:
Powerful and torquey turbo 6
.. and interestingly a recognition and acceptance that a car didn’t have to be of supermodel weight to be fast.
While this last fact was acceptable with the early incarnations of the GT-R, the ground up redesign could have easily paved the way for a light weight razor sharp supercar. There was no carry over from a previous model to hold them back here. With their nemesis Porsche renowned for light weight performance, it seemed Nissan was almost thumbing their nose at the German manufacturer by building a supercar that was more Pavarotti than J-Lo.
On paper the numbers didn’t really add up to the times that were coming out of the factory. Sure it had some grunt but it needed it to haul all that extra weight around. How could this car ever hope to compete with the lithe 911GT2 which comes in almost 200kg lighter than the portly Godzilla.
The magic is simply the traction that this car has and this is evident from the moment you turn into the first corner. There are some incredibly smart electronics going on here, but for me behind the wheel it’s simply a point and shoot scenario. The car doesn’t sound fast, it’s more just a never ending surge interjected by millisecond quick gear changes as the car rockets down the straight.
The brakes ? Wow. I was expecting a squirrelly mess trying to pull up 1700kg of car at the end of the Fuji straight but with some small protest from the tyres, the car simply stops. Turn it in and feed some power on and in the car grabs and goes.
In the same way the Mines R34 sliced through corners so does the R35, though the R34 in comparison felt like an axe where this feels like a katana.
The other noticeable trait this car has is some healthy oversteer if you were getting on the brakes while turning in. This can only be attributed to the additional weight. While not overly concerning, as it is easily countered by trailing some throttle it does bear mention. It also allows for some Hollywood style corner exits with the rear end hanging way out with all 4 paws dragging the car up the road as you grab another gear.
I was initially sceptical of this car, but I walk away simply stunned and impressed. I feel that this is a car that I could commute to work each day, trundle down to the shops for my weekly groceries and then on Sunday go and destroy some supercars at my local track.
The combination of balance, traction and some very smart electronics put this car miles ahead of nearly every other car on the market. What it does and how it does it is simply a new benchmark and breaking new ground in terms of performance cars.
The engine is gold. For the first time the GT-R lineage now sports a twin turbo V6 instead of the in-line of old.
While its not the most sensational sounding V6 on the market, it certainly has potential once the tuners get a hold of it. In a way the understated exhaust note from the quad drainpipes out the back reflect the entire persona of this car. Where the R34 V-Spec looked hard, muscular and loud, the R35 is more like your wolf in sheep’s clothing. At a glance it looks nothing more than a mild mannered tourer until you start looking a little closer and realise how perfectly everything ties in and how purposeful this car is.
Power: 360 kW
Turn in: 89/100
Corner grip: 90/100
Corner Exit: 93/100
V-Spec R35 GT-R what we can expect.
While I didn’t have my hands on the production version of the V-Spec R-35 I did have access to one of the "mules" they were testing. If the standard R-35 felt as good as it was, I could not wait to see how this car felt.
The GT-R SpecV is powered by the standard twin-turbo 3,799 cc (3.8 L; 231.8 cu in) V6 with no increase in (peak) horsepower, but a new high gear boost controller that temporarily increases boost pressure should deliver more torque in mid to high-range revs. Other mechanical changes include a titanium exhaust, reworked suspension, carbon ceramic brakes, and 20-inch (510 mm) NISMO wheels. Overall weight is decreased by 60 kg over the standard GT-R.
I ran my eye over the spec sheet and thought hmmmm not really much change here. But as soon as I was in the seat the changes really made a difference. The loss of weight and reworked suspension made the turn in sharper, more controllable (as if that was even possible!) and allowed for a slightly higher corner speed.
The better brakes gave a lot more stopping power allowing me to confidently brake deeper into the 2 big hairpins at Fuji.
Overall the level of grip now available was definitely kicked up a notch and that was reflected in the lap times. The slightly stiffer suspension really suited the Fuji track surface, though may be more of a hindrance on Sydney’s less than perfect roads but this is an issue I could happily live with. Although power was quoted as not changing the dyno showed an increase of around 5kw. This plus the weight loss and extra torque account for the slightly higher top speed reached down the main straight.
The car simply felt tighter and more in touch with the road surface giving greater feedback and allowing me to push a little harder. For what was only slight changes, this equated to a gain of 2 seconds over the standard R-35 and when you have not done this via power it means promising things for those tuners once they get a hold of this car.
I’m looking forward to the production version of this to be released so I can do some solid back to back testing, however early on I can see that the V-Spec is going to be fast and well worth the expense. Porsche look out.
Power: 365 kW
Turn in: 96/10
Corner grip: 96/10
Corner Exit: 96/10
Changes over the standard tune R-35:
Ride height -10mm F/R from std
Toe F -5
Slightly lower final drive
Mines R35 GT-R - what we can expect
The tuner’s latest work includes a brand new aero package, which includes of a full body kit plus several additional carbon-fibre accessories. These include pieces such as a carbon-fibre lip spoiler, carbon-fibre hood and trunk lid, and new carbon-fibre side mirrors. There are also custom canards positioned on the front spoiler.
Modifications to the car’s internals include an upgraded ECU, high-flow air filter and exhaust, an adjustable suspension package with a Mine’s Eibach spring kit, up rated brake rotors and pads, and high-capacity fuel injectors.
The Mines guys had their mule on hand for me as well. It was tough getting exact numbers from them and I have a feeling they were being a little conservative on the numbers they did give me. But what I found was they had bumped the power up to just over 400kW. Weight apparently had not changed but the aero kits was sure to provide some additional grip.
The reworked suspension and brakes would also add to what is an already sensational car.
Out on the track, there was definite improvement over the V-Spec. The extra power they have extracted from the engine really made its presence felt, though this did require a little more control on corner exit as I found myself pointing backwards on my sighting lap.
The suspension and brakes feel refined and powerful adding to an already confident car and teasing you to push a little deeper and a little harder. I was really impressed with this early version and think these guys have really nailed it. The car exhibits a lot of the traits of their R34 version in so much as it’s a very fast car yet feels totally in control, it FEELS like a Mines car should.
Is it quicker than the V-Spec ? Definitely. The big grunt and extra sure footedness allowed me to shave another second off the time of the V-Spec and this was really evident in the way this car would drive off the corners and the extra speed down the main straight.
Power: 404 kW
Turn in: 97/10
Corner grip: 97/10
Corner Exit: 98/10
Changes over the standard tune R-35:
Ride height -15mm F/R from std
Toe F -7
Slightly lower final drive
I feel like I went through my own evolution when running these tests. Ideally I would like to have had an R32 and R33 on hand but I don’t think that was really critical to the overall test.
The R34 was the culmination of the previous versions of the legendary Godzilla. Continually building upon that platform and producing a supercar that was and probably always will be heralded as one of the greatest cars every built in the form of the R34 V-Spec II.
Highlights were definitely seeing how this car evolved through the hands of tuners and how this car developed the foundations and underlying principles that would make their way to the R35.
Seeing how the R35 interprets these attributes of balance, traction and drivability and take them to an all new level that frankly, nothing else comes close to, is a revolutionary approach to supercar design.
Where to from here?
As we saw with the previous versions of the GT-R, this is just the beginning. With the release of the V-Spec and then the models from the various tuning houses this car will continue to grow its domination and will again become the cult classic in its own right like all the GT-R's before it.
**Reference material for specifications of R-35 V-Spec and Mines R-35... good old wiki/web. In game car was tuned to these specifications or conservative approximations where exact numbers were not available.
Didn't this use to be a tuning garage? Since when were you so keen on Japanese cars?
So here is the first tune I have thrown up in a while, and is the first tune done on a wheel as opposed to a sixaxis so please let me know how you go.
I think this car is pretty quick
750PP - Suzuka
Tires R2 / R2
Ride Height -10 / -10
Spring 5F 4R
Damper 5F 4R
Toe -0.12 / -0.03
Camber 2.1 / 1.1
Brakes 8 / 8
Torque Split n/a
Steering Angle 45
Final Gear: 3.100
All reviews appreciated, hope you appreciate the new pics
Anyone know the best car and the best tuning for the pp800 intermediate online at suzuka. I'm currently using the Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car and the s2000, I prefer the ford. there only seems to be settings here for the s6 and the pp700. Also do you use the handbrake at all. Been playing for 4 days only come 1st once
Happy to have a look and see what we can do with the GT LM, its a beast but in the Intermediate it should be pretty controllable. ..
As for the handbrake, if you are on the racing line and in a car setup correctly you shouldnt touch it... but thats my opinion
Yep thought so, never use the handbrake, thought I'd ask to make sure i was missing out on something. Any feed back on tuning would be appreciated
Posted this ages ago - hope it helps